An Interview with Carey Clayton
Carey Clayton's first album as Modern Olympia is Justification Machine. He talks through lyrics he doesn't fully understand yet, about thirty Morgan Jay shows built on crowd work, joining Great Good Fine Ok, and songs written in English, then translated, two of which went to number one in China.
Love Music More · hosted by Luke F. Walton
The podcast feed is titled Love Music More with Scoobert Doobert. Scoobert Doobert is Luke F. Walton's primary music project.
Guest: Carey Clayton (Modern Olympia, Jay Som, Morgan Jay)
Producer, songwriter, and touring musician (Modern Olympia). Love Music More on a career across Jay Som, Morgan Jay, Great Good Fine Ok, and his own records.
Carey Clayton: careyclayton.com · discogs.com · Bandcamp · Spotify Also on this site: Great Good Fine Ok · Jon Sandler (Great Good Fine Ok)
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Everything Under The Sun with Carey Clayton (Modern Olympia, Jay Som, Morgan Jay)
Topics discussed
Host note
Carey Clayton’s first album under the name Modern Olympia is called Justification Machine. The songs keep coming back to the mental hoops people jump through to tell themselves something is okay. On lyrics, he trusts the lines he doesn’t fully understand yet. The clever ones feel contrived.
Touring, session work, and TV and film production music are how he learns what makes a genre tick, including music he would not have chosen, and carries that back into his own songs. A solo session turns into an echo chamber, so he still wants other people’s takes. The quick test for “done,” nothing left that’s wrong, is the one he doesn’t like. He’d rather know the song is good, and when an idea shows up he tries to write, record, and produce it in an afternoon.
We spend the middle of the hour on the live work. Morgan Jay’s show stays fresh after about thirty dates in under a year because so much of it is crowd work: they vamp and leave space for the audience’s punch line. Great Good Fine Ok is the longer story. He knew a member from Miami, met drummer Danny and singer John again in New York, and Russ Flynn called him in about ten years ago, after Flynn had been subbing with X Ambassadors. The China songs are a different path. An Instagram message led to producing an artist who was in Los Angeles, then to something like eighty songs over a few years, written in English with John and pitched by an A&R contact after translation. He does not go to China to write them. Great Good Fine Ok did tour China, and he says that trip had nothing to do with these songs. Two of the songs became number one for a while, which he treats as a goofy fun fact. The gigs, he says, came from people he likes making music with, not from auditions.
Asked why he loves music, he talks about rooms he would not otherwise have entered: a record in Nigeria, a choreography project in Istanbul, and the quieter work of sitting with a sound until it says something about him.
Selected moments
- Justification Machine 2:02 First album under the name Modern Olympia, about the hoops people jump through to tell themselves something is okay.
- Lyrics he doesn't fully know yet 3:30 The clever lines feel contrived. The ones he doesn't understand yet are the exciting ones.
- What makes a genre tick 4:18 A decade of other artists, plus TV and film production music, is how he learns a style and brings it home.
- Capture it the same day 6:42 Done means the song is good, not that every problem is gone. He tries to write, record, and produce an idea in an afternoon.
- Thirty Morgan Jay shows 16:59 Still fresh after about thirty dates because the set is crowd work.
- Joining Great Good Fine Ok 21:02 Miami, then New York, then a call from Russ Flynn about ten years ago.
- The China songs started on Instagram 31:36 A message that sounded like a scam became years of songs written in English and translated. He does not fly there to write.
- Find your people 37:05 The gigs came through musicians he actually likes, not a pile of auditions.
- A record in Nigeria 39:24 Why he loves music: rooms he would not have entered, including Nigeria and a choreography project in Istanbul.
Selected excerpts
The title of the album is called Justification Machine.
In this album it was like I kept seeing this theme of the kind of mental hoops we all jump through to like tell ourselves that something's okay.
Some of my more favorite things I've written, you don't really know what it totally means at the time, but you know there's something like juicy there and it's like speaking to something more subconsciously.
Sometimes it's like I can pretty much write, record, and produce out a song in an afternoon.
We'll try to like leave some space for like the audience punch line to hit.
We don't go to China to write with Chinese artists.
The fact that two of those songs became number one songs for a while, this feels like one of those goofy fun facts.
I love music because it's connected me to people from such vastly different backgrounds and cultures that doing anything else, there's like no way that would have happened.
FAQ
What is Carey Clayton's album Justification Machine?
It is the first album under the name Modern Olympia. He describes it as an eclectic set that kept returning to the stories people tell themselves so that something feels okay. The lyrics he trusts are the ones he doesn't fully understand yet.
How did Carey Clayton end up with number-one songs in China?
An Instagram message led to producing an artist who was in Los Angeles, then to years of songs written in English with John from Great Good Fine Ok. An A&R contact pitches them after they are translated. Carey does not go to China to write them. Two of the songs reached number one for a while. A separate Great Good Fine Ok tour of China was unrelated.
What does Carey Clayton do in Morgan Jay's show?
He plays in the band, about thirty shows in under a year. The music vamps under crowd work and leaves space for the audience's punch line.
When does Carey Clayton know a song is finished?
The short test, nothing left that's wrong, is the one he doesn't like. He'd rather know the song is good. When he can get into the studio with an idea, he tries to write, record, and produce it in an afternoon.
Also in the archive
Transcript
1:40 Luke F. Walton What's good, everybody? Welcome back to Love Music More. I am joined with Carey Clayton. What's up, man?
1:47 Carey Clayton Hey, man, great to see you.
1:49 Luke F. Walton Great to see you too. So I'm super excited about, first of all, you got a new album that's about to drop and probably after this episode comes out, it will have dropped. Can you tell me a little bit about it?
1:59 Carey Clayton Yeah, it's well, my first album under the new name Modern Olympia, and it's coming out on performer with a mutual friend, Sam Friend. Yeah, it's a pretty eclectic mix of sounds that kind of came under this idea. Let me back a little bit. The title of the album is called Justification Machine.
2:18 Carey Clayton And I realized, you know, when I'm working on albums, I don't necessarily or writing songs in a group. I don't necessarily like.
2:27 Carey Clayton have an overarching theme but i feel like in retrospect i see what i was thinking about a lot coming
2:34 Luke F. Walton Okay.
2:34 Carey Clayton out through songs and in this album it was like i kept seeing this theme of like the kind of mental hoops we all jump through to like tell ourselves that something's okay or like
2:51 Carey Clayton what like the the really funny behaviors we can all do to like seem like it's the normal thing to do but it's actually like we're all doing very crazy things all the time
3:01 Luke F. Walton That's cool. Do you feel like when you're like writing lyrics, you go back and you justify the meaning of the lyric or do you kind of know what you're doing when you're diving into a song?
3:10 Carey Clayton That's a great question because I think I don't know some of my more favorite things I've written you don't really know what it totally means at the time but you know there's something like juicy there and it's like speaking to something more subconsciously. I feel like the lyrics I've written where I like, oh, yeah, I'm like getting really clever and like really good at something.
3:30 Carey Clayton Those can feel a little contrived, but when it's a little more like pulling from something that I don't totally know what it is or tapping into something and then maybe I find out later or like have another perspective that kind of justifies it.
3:45 Luke F. Walton Yes.
3:45 Carey Clayton Those are like the most exciting to me.
3:48 Luke F. Walton Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. So I'm really curious, too, about how you. how your touring and session experience has influenced kind of the music that you want to make because obviously you've played with a lot of great people we'll get into that throughout the course of the pod but how has that helped you kind of like sample different genres tones styles and inform like okay when you've got the mic this is what you want to go do
4:09 Carey Clayton Yeah, that's also a great question. I feel like I've had the luxury over decade plus long time playing with.
4:18 Carey Clayton so many different eclectic artists and also i'll tie that into i do a lot of like tv and film music a lot of production music that has me doing genres of stuff that i wouldn't like pick to do but there's something about like okay what makes this tick like why how is this like if it's something i really don't like but like
4:43 Carey Clayton people like it or it's like doing a thing there's like something always there's always something redeemable about that piece of music and
4:51 Luke F. Walton Okay.
4:52 Carey Clayton like for me it's like just what is it that makes that work and how can i like learn that and apply it to something that I really like and like that I want to express artistically yeah and like more more to your question about working with artists I started more producing artists and then kind of really started to step into my own artistry and I think kind of going down that path with different creators really helped me see like what I liked through working with different people
5:24 Carey Clayton And even still after I've like done many of my own albums, I still really like doing collaborations with other artists because it kind of can be way too much of a one man show over here and just like in my own echo chamber and kind of like a creature of habit of doing the same things and it's really refreshing to get someone else's take on how music can like go.
5:45 Luke F. Walton yeah yeah i get that and i also understand like the one man thing when you when you know something's done if you're the only one working on it okay
5:54 Carey Clayton there's so many different ways like the the really quick answer is if there's nothing wrong with it anymore
6:00 Luke F. Walton you
6:01 Carey Clayton which is like
6:02 Luke F. Walton just listen
6:02 Carey Clayton such
6:02 Luke F. Walton down
6:02 Carey Clayton a like
6:02 Luke F. Walton and you're like not pulled out of it like that kind of thing okay
6:04 Carey Clayton yeah which is like not my favorite way to to mark that because it's just like a war of attrition of like problems with something which is you know not my favorite way to make music
6:16 Luke F. Walton Yeah.
6:16 Carey Clayton i usually for me it's like like that's that's when it's done when i know the song is is good and i really like it but it's like that last five percent of just like oh there's a there's like a stupid like vocal click in the chorus it's like something i somehow totally overlooked like that's just like technical stuff that i feel like that's not really what you're getting at it's more like yeah you could just make different iterations of a song creatively and it's like which ones
6:42 Carey Clayton one's the best and for me i guess an ethos i've kind of gotten into is like i really like to when i get an idea for a song and i'm like have the ability to work on it in the studio i'll try to just like do as much as i can of that song as quickly as possible and
7:03 Luke F. Walton Okay.
7:04 Carey Clayton sometimes it's like i can pretty much write record and like produce out a song in like an afternoon
7:11 Carey Clayton um i've got like where my skill set can you know obviously it's like that first 90 and it's like really quick but to me it's like capturing that is like the whole point and it's kind of like i've been trying to train myself like the quicker i can capture an essence of something that like more potent it'll be and the less i'm gonna like tinker with it you know maybe or maybe not maybe i'll tinker with it forever but
7:37 Carey Clayton it's like having that really intense moment when it comes to you and then stepping away for a long time like a long time could be a couple weeks a month a few months and then if i come back to i'm like maybe this wasn't that great or like oh wait i love this and like there's just a few things i got to do to it that's
7:56 Carey Clayton That's kind of when I know I got something is usually like I feel it in the moment and then like a lot enough time passes where it's like fresh again to me.
8:04 Luke F. Walton okay i like that and then that's when you get the kind of will and energy to finish that last 10 which can like take way longer the first
8:12 Carey Clayton Yeah,
8:12 Luke F. Walton 90 yeah
8:12 Carey Clayton as you know, it's just like a trudge like through slop.
8:16 Luke F. Walton totally
8:16 Carey Clayton Yeah,
8:16 Luke F. Walton totally
8:17 Carey Clayton it's like and it's not as exciting. It's not as sexy. um yeah that's where it's like really work is
8:24 Luke F. Walton for
8:24 Carey Clayton when you're
8:24 Luke F. Walton sure totally
8:25 Carey Clayton just tightening up all the little bolts that you you didn't realize you had problems with but yeah
8:29 Luke F. Walton totally i just finished a song that had like a million harmonies because i just kept hearing them and it's like like i hate songs like that but this song that's what it wants to be it's like now i gotta do like 30 different individual vocal tracks and like check the takes and then make sure that nothing's weird with the phase
8:49 Luke F. Walton phasing and the tuning and the delivery and the mouth clicks it's like the uh technical debt that i have to deal with before the song's done is like ah it's so much more than just a guitar and a vocal and a drum kit yeah
9:01 Carey Clayton I know.
9:02 Luke F. Walton quite
9:02 Carey Clayton How many doubles are you putting on each harmony there?
9:06 Luke F. Walton a bit that that's what it was just it had to be a little bit more gang vocally kind of that's what the song wanted you know who am i to i might just stand in the way but
9:17 Carey Clayton Exactly.
9:17 Luke F. Walton uh
9:18 Carey Clayton That's
9:18 Luke F. Walton i hate
9:18 Carey Clayton a great place
9:18 Luke F. Walton it
9:19 Carey Clayton to be. I know.
9:20 Luke F. Walton i like the simple songs but every once in a while you'll start with a simple song it'll be like i don't want to be simple anymore no yeah
9:25 Carey Clayton Yeah, I feel like I almost I have a really hard time making a simple song or
9:30 Luke F. Walton totally
9:30 Carey Clayton at least
9:31 Luke F. Walton totally you hear you hear the things
9:33 Carey Clayton Yeah. Or it's hard to just like let it be a simple song without trying on everything else and then coming. Coming back to that deleting
9:41 Luke F. Walton Yes.
9:42 Carey Clayton a hundred tracks and then like oh, yeah, I guess I just wanted to be simple
9:47 Luke F. Walton Exactly. And sometimes you'll have something that's captivating enough that you don't.
9:51 Luke F. Walton you don't get distracted so like you have like a really cool bass riff or really cool groove or whatever and you're like i can just kind of sit in here for the rest of the song but a lot of times your ear wanders and this is not necessarily a bad thing a lot of the songs want 100 tracks like they just do and so just forcing everything into like the five band members it can work but uh it's it's easier when you're a band i think or like forcing yourself to be a certain type of record but when you're just making a song
10:19 Luke F. Walton song it's like the song wants to be what the song wants to be
10:21 Carey Clayton yeah i mean that's a good point because i there's just i'm sure you have lots of great gear and like i know you play lots of different instruments it's just like you know it can it can be so wide open like what can it be something that's been nice for me is kind of like also finding like what is
10:41 Carey Clayton what are kind of the instruments or like like specific like tones of instruments am i using on these collections and
10:46 Luke F. Walton Cool.
10:46 Carey Clayton it's again that's never like planned it's always like oh i had like a phase of a few months where i was like taping my piano and using that as like a bass like stuff like that i'm like oh that has a certain world and it's like really cool When I can stay disciplined to that and
11:06 Luke F. Walton yeah yeah
11:06 Carey Clayton just,
11:07 Luke F. Walton yeah
11:07 Carey Clayton you
11:07 Luke F. Walton yes
11:07 Carey Clayton know, and not just like running to, oh yeah, I know of this other cool song that would be great here, but it's like I've done that, you know, a hundred other times.
11:16 Luke F. Walton well i think that kind of goes back to your pace thing like a lot of classic records are made in one studio with a certain mic locker with certain whatever and they use that hammond organ all of the things they use that les paul and that marshall stack
11:30 Luke F. Walton stack and it creates a sound because that's kind of the gear that they had available when you have like amp sims and endless vst and a bunch of gear just kind of sitting around you or a friend's house or whatever you can lose some of that essence and that's fine for singles but yeah when you're trying to make like an album or a collection time place and moving fast i think helps that because like even a plug-in like i'll buy new plug-ins every like three to six months
11:55 Luke F. Walton and so if i take too long making a record it's going to start to morph because i'm just naturally buying new toys and popping them on my music yeah
12:03 Carey Clayton yeah that's true you can see towards the end of working on something when you got the new thing oh man i'm so guilty of that i'll like get oftentimes i'll find like or i'll crack the code on something towards the end of like the group of songs that i'm like mixing i'm like oh wait i need to do that to like all the vocals shit
12:25 Luke F. Walton Yes, totally.
12:26 Carey Clayton and
12:26 Luke F. Walton Totally.
12:28 Carey Clayton yeah you just see all the work you have in front of you but you're like it's both like daunting and relieving because you're like oh i figured it out now i just got to do the stuff
12:37 Luke F. Walton Yeah. Yeah, there's also
12:40 Carey Clayton Yeah,
12:40 Luke F. Walton something cool, though, about it. And I can hear it in some people's music where the next record starts to form under the surface of the current record totally. and then you explore that. But it's like kind of cool because when I've been at my most prolific, that's happening at a rapid pace of like I'm finishing one collection. The next collection is a natural like, oh, wait.
13:00 Luke F. Walton i explore this hallway that already exists on this record you
13:04 Carey Clayton Yeah,
13:04 Luke F. Walton know yeah
13:05 Carey Clayton and you realize it led to a whole another house
13:07 Luke F. Walton exactly and then i think for a listener it's kind of cool because then the each of the records kind of hold hands a little bit
13:14 Carey Clayton yeah yeah i mean that's just like artistic cohesion i
13:18 Luke F. Walton yeah
13:18 Carey Clayton feel like
13:18 Luke F. Walton yeah yeah which
13:19 Carey Clayton for
13:19 Luke F. Walton is hard for
13:20 Carey Clayton me
13:20 Luke F. Walton me
13:20 Carey Clayton uh
13:20 Luke F. Walton i
13:21 Carey Clayton yeah i mean i
13:22 Luke F. Walton got
13:22 Carey Clayton get
13:22 Luke F. Walton too much
13:22 Carey Clayton it
13:22 Luke F. Walton spread
13:22 Carey Clayton man i yeah
13:23 Luke F. Walton got too much i
13:23 Carey Clayton we all like we're in the age where you're just like so many different things i'm
13:27 Luke F. Walton know exactly oh
13:28 Carey Clayton sure you grew up on tons of different types
13:30 Luke F. Walton yeah
13:30 Carey Clayton of
13:30 Luke F. Walton for
13:31 Carey Clayton music
13:31 Luke F. Walton sure for sure and it just it just keeps going up the variety of music that i listen to increases like every single year because i don't like to leave things behind like I will hear really cool Brazilian music and be like, yep, you're going in my cleaning playlist or whatever and it's
13:46 Carey Clayton yeah
13:46 Luke F. Walton there forever.
13:47 Carey Clayton i know it's almost i mean it's just daunting how much music there is that
13:52 Luke F. Walton Oh
13:52 Carey Clayton i
13:52 Luke F. Walton my God.
13:52 Carey Clayton want to listen to i had a friend tell me like 10 years ago when I was just like trying to check out so many jazz records and then he was just like you're never gonna hear it all
14:05 Luke F. Walton Ha,
14:05 Carey Clayton and
14:05 Luke F. Walton ha, ha, ha.
14:06 Carey Clayton that just like hit me like a ton of bricks I was like yeah shit I was like no way you could listen to even all the like really great stuff let alone there's just so much other noise but like and
14:19 Luke F. Walton Yeah.
14:20 Carey Clayton then it kind of it's like i think i always just wanted to like really get to know like music just great music and then i guess it kind of dawned on me it's like well I'm a product of where I landed, like
14:34 Luke F. Walton Yeah.
14:34 Carey Clayton where I was born and where I grew up and like the resources I could explore music through. And it's like, I guess I should probably just lean into that instead of just trying to become like. you know pan musical and
14:48 Luke F. Walton uh
14:48 Carey Clayton just
14:48 Luke F. Walton -huh
14:48 Carey Clayton know everything because
14:49 Luke F. Walton right
14:49 Carey Clayton i that's impossible um
14:51 Luke F. Walton no exactly you don't need to go your ethno musicology degree right now maybe when you're older but like you
14:57 Carey Clayton yeah yeah
14:58 Luke F. Walton can super
14:58 Carey Clayton exactly
14:58 Luke F. Walton get into the world of music yeah
15:00 Carey Clayton yeah like it it is on one hand it's like really great to see the the through line on music and then on the other hand it's like really great to not to just be free from like any sort sort of like you know it's got to be this way because like that's how the it traditionally was but it's like pretty awesome when you don't know stuff and you just try to make the best thing you can
15:25 Luke F. Walton yep yep and then it's and it's both sides are beautiful and you don't want to lose either one it's the same thing that i feel with like your training or music theory of like yeah you can turn on that part of your head and then like Start analyzing what's going on. But sometimes it's nice just to listen to music. like not as a professional just trying to just hear it
15:44 Carey Clayton Yeah.
15:44 Luke F. Walton and that can sometimes be hard especially when you're like learning a lot of songs or you're in a heavy compositional phase or something like that but that's part of the reason why i like listening to music in like weird situations or really quiet or whatever places to break you out of being conscious like breathing you know like now that i said breathing everybody listening to the podcast is going to be like but it's really nice and you're not thinking about your breath but it's also nice
16:08 Luke F. Walton So nice when you're thinking about your breath.
16:09 Carey Clayton Right.
16:11 Luke F. Walton Weird. Very
16:12 Carey Clayton You're a big meditator, yeah?
16:14 Luke F. Walton I'm a dude. I am, I want to be a big meditator, you
16:18 Carey Clayton Yeah, me too.
16:19 Luke F. Walton know? So it's like, I wrote a song about it, about how guilty I am that I don't meditate enough and then how I need to meditate to rid myself of the guilt for not
16:30 Carey Clayton Oh,
16:30 Luke F. Walton meditating.
16:31 Carey Clayton man.
16:31 Luke F. Walton It just sort
16:32 Carey Clayton What a conundrum.
16:32 Luke F. Walton of circles down. I know exactly. So anyway, I want to get back to, I want to get back to,
16:38 Carey Clayton Yeah,
16:38 Luke F. Walton I'm
16:38 Carey Clayton yeah, yeah.
16:38 Luke F. Walton gonna talk about Morgan Jay. What's
16:40 Carey Clayton Okay.
16:40 Luke F. Walton it like? uh you know that's got to be a super interesting gig you know obviously very famous hilarious uh what's what's that show like how do you go about it
16:49 Carey Clayton So yeah, I mean, he has a really unique show. Like, I think he's really cracked like a specific format that, I mean, I've played probably like, I don't know, maybe 30 shows of them at this point over the last like half year, year almost. and it's still like fresh even to me who's seen 30 shows because it's so much crowd work and
17:13 Luke F. Walton Yeah, for sure.
17:14 Carey Clayton it's like really cool seeing such a like dialed-in entertainer like him just
17:20 Luke F. Walton Yeah.
17:21 Carey Clayton like dip and dodge with all the like things that are thrown at him Because, I mean, he'll just, you know, get thrown like just total dead weight out there and then can make it funny and generally like pretty chill music behind him. in support of his crowd work like
17:39 Luke F. Walton Hmm. Yeah.
17:40 Carey Clayton a lot of times he'll have a song that'll set up what he's going to do crowd work wise
17:45 Luke F. Walton Okay.
17:45 Carey Clayton um give it some context and
17:46 Luke F. Walton Yeah.
17:47 Carey Clayton then we'll keep vamping on that
17:48 Luke F. Walton Okay.
17:48 Carey Clayton but we'll try to like leave some space for like the audience punch line to hit so it's kind of this group like energy going on you know and also people have all sorts of different timing because they'll try to get them to do musical bits and sometimes they'll really like they like no one ever rushes everyone half the people drag so
18:07 Luke F. Walton Interesting.
18:07 Carey Clayton end up like you know yeah probably i i think i mean you can really see i think the beauty of his show is it's both comedy and like a little bit of horror to people like if they're gonna get Yes. kicked on like i can just feel the anxiety from some people when they're coming by like
18:26 Carey Clayton so i think it really like you know it's it's it's just got people on the edge of their seat for like several reasons so
18:32 Luke F. Walton Mm-hmm.
18:33 Carey Clayton the nerves come out in all sorts of ways with people and morgan to his credit also is just really good at like just getting people to calm down and like just be there um
18:42 Luke F. Walton yeah yeah
18:43 Carey Clayton for the most part it's a blast he's also just a great singer i mean he sings a lot without the auto-tune and he sounds great and you mentioned brazilian music he's like loves a lot of brazilian music we do a bossa in one of them yeah i mean it's it's been a great gig yeah
18:58 Luke F. Walton yeah that's such an interesting so this this is one of the reasons why i wanted to ask you about it because it sounds like a weird form of jazz where you're doing thing like i've always thought of this about improv like improv music is that you have to be so aware of everything that's going on and be able to react to it but not step on people and uh that's fascinating that's like a very interesting kind of music
19:18 Carey Clayton yeah they're not stepping on is is really important because i mean it to remember it's like you know they're there for him for the show and but you know it's like maybe i'll do a like little goofy like wah wah thing there and
19:34 Luke F. Walton Yeah.
19:34 Carey Clayton like that'll like you know turn morgan's ear in a certain way and like certain certainly he's heard like little licks and it'll just like get him to do something else and it just kind of adds to the overall vibe of like the liveness like no show's ever exactly the same yeah it is it's like definitely a balance between you know you don't want to just throw out like hokey like like like goofy like
19:57 Luke F. Walton Yeah.
19:58 Carey Clayton guitar you know comedy guitar licks yeah it's like that's not really what we're trying to do it's also like it it gets me thinking about timing more than anything you know music timing is everything but it's also like just a different like beat on top of the beat you're playing too like in the comedic sense
20:19 Luke F. Walton yeah absolutely absolutely and it makes sense to like what you're doing for him is in a lot of ways like what I feel when I'm taking a guitar solo with a really good band behind me it's like everybody's listening and supporting me and they'll kind of like I can lead them they can lead me
20:36 Carey Clayton Yeah. Totally.
20:37 Luke F. Walton And so you're doing that for
20:38 Carey Clayton For
20:38 Luke F. Walton crowd work.
20:39 Carey Clayton jokes. Yeah.
20:40 Luke F. Walton That's awesome.
20:41 Carey Clayton Yeah.
20:42 Luke F. Walton That's awesome. I also, I think I completed the Great Good Fine Ok set with you today. I think I've interviewed everybody.
20:51 Carey Clayton Hey, you've collected all four.
20:54 Luke F. Walton Exactly.
20:55 Carey Clayton Congratulations.
20:55 Luke F. Walton How did you get started? How did you join the band? What's
21:01 Carey Clayton yeah
21:01 Luke F. Walton up?
21:01 Carey Clayton um so i actually knew luke from um miami here
21:08 Luke F. Walton Oh, cool.
21:08 Carey Clayton in sioux miami down in florida he was i think he was getting a master's or something we overlapped for like one year then we all kind of reconnected in new york and that's when i met danny the drummer and then later john the singer john now lives across the street from me and we work on all sorts of stuff uh everyone in the band they have like different projects going on
21:28 Luke F. Walton Cool.
21:28 Carey Clayton with too it's
21:29 Luke F. Walton That's
21:29 Carey Clayton like a
21:29 Luke F. Walton great.
21:30 Carey Clayton real musical family um
21:30 Luke F. Walton Yeah. Oh, totally.
21:32 Carey Clayton yeah
21:32 Luke F. Walton All of y'all are great. That's
21:34 Carey Clayton thanks
21:35 Luke F. Walton incredible.
21:35 Carey Clayton but yeah it was just uh they our good friend started playing guitar with them russ flynn and then he ended up uh subbing for someone on ex ambassadors and gave me a call and that was like 10 years ago and then still played and uh made records with them since no
21:51 Luke F. Walton Russ is on the podcast too.
21:53 Carey Clayton way yeah
21:53 Luke F. Walton Yeah.
21:54 Carey Clayton yeah
21:55 Luke F. Walton The fifth Beatle.
21:56 Carey Clayton he really is very knowledgeable guy
22:00 Luke F. Walton Oh yeah. Yeah. Very, very sharp. Sorry to interrupt this very important broadcast. What I'm asking for is for you to rate it five stars, share it with your friends. This is like the most important thing for this podcast to grow. So if you want to do this, you go into the podcast screen, right? You click on the dot.
22:14 Luke F. Walton dot dot dot on Spotify under there it says rate show and you go and you click it five stars if you could do that for me that's the best way for the algorithms all this stuff to share it out with the world I know that it's a lot to ask but if you could please please please just please just hit those three dots and a five star it'd really help us out and helps us you know get the get the word out and spread the love of music so thank you if you're listening on YouTube you know what to do like subscribe all that good stuff thank you so much and here's the rest of the episode
22:41 Luke F. Walton the episode. But one of the things that I find so interesting, and I think that like if somebody is looking into a music career, this is a super important thing to walk away from is being amongst great musicians that are all passionate.
22:53 Luke F. Walton and expansive can lead to so many different opportunities within like film and tv within side projects production like just being around the people that have the energy and passion and technical chops to go do and make music i feel like that in and of itself can help be an engine for a career because
23:13 Carey Clayton Yeah, wholeheartedly agree with that. When
23:15 Luke F. Walton like people
23:16 Carey Clayton I first
23:16 Luke F. Walton are thinking like i need a connection or i need a whatever somebody like You're like discover me. It's like yeah, but also you could just hang out with like the most capable of your friends Yep.
23:25 Carey Clayton oh yeah i mean well bringing it back to Great Good Fine Ok i mean i learned so much about music production and mixing from luke and danny and just all things music like i was like definitely like a boot camp in a lot of ways and when i first started even before that i was just like it's kind of the era of when you could look on craigslist for random gigs and uh i just had a policy i'd like try everything once like
23:54 Luke F. Walton Okay.
23:55 Carey Clayton any situation and
23:57 Luke F. Walton Like cover bands or what are we talking here?
23:59 Carey Clayton yeah well actually when i first so after uh school in miami and i moved to new york and i was just like okay how am i gonna live here how am i gonna like pay pay rent and do that because they really don't teach you that in school it's not anything um like practical and
24:19 Luke F. Walton Yeah, I see what you're saying.
24:21 Carey Clayton yeah i remember my there were two different things that would go on to really like change my life in in different ways but the first one was i responded to a gospel quartet like band that was like like had rehearsal out in east new york brownsville was like
24:41 Carey Clayton kind of rough at the time but i showed up and like played that and they were like oh you sound great like i heard of this church that uh needs a guitar player and they're like just go there on sunday and i went there and like i didn't know anyone there and it's like it's like a four-hour service and then at the end of it they're just like oh i see this guy here like you have a guitar why don't you come up and play something for us you
25:07 Carey Clayton and like i was just getting into gospel music and i didn't really know the rep like that i just like made some stuff up and but like put as much like soul and stank on it as i could and they ended up really liking it and the band like joined in and we played something and then uh i had i played at that church like every sunday for my seven years in new york And that just like, it
25:38 Carey Clayton just opened me up to such a different way of feeling music. Like I had just come from like the university kind of like real cerebral level.
25:49 Luke F. Walton Yeah
25:50 Carey Clayton And then everyone like, I would meet tons of musicians through that church because they'd be different people every week and then I'd end up going playing different places.
25:59 Carey Clayton it's just some of those people like grew up playing at that church and just like thought of music very differently and i'm just like so grateful for that that situation also just the best time like taking guitar solos at church because be the most attentive audience like you take they really feel everything you play more than like the most drug-induced like situation i've ever played
26:25 Carey Clayton but they're like so tapped in it was like really incredible and
26:29 Luke F. Walton Yeah.
26:30 Carey Clayton then the other thing i i mentioned was so back to the craigslist like
26:34 Luke F. Walton Yeah,
26:34 Carey Clayton sending
26:34 Luke F. Walton back
26:34 Carey Clayton us
26:34 Luke F. Walton to everything Craigslist.
26:35 Carey Clayton i
26:35 Luke F. Walton Oh, yeah.
26:35 Carey Clayton just uh said yes to like looking for an acoustic guitar to like accompany a soul singer and i did it played a few gigs and then it's like oh would you like to like play on my record and i'm gonna have this like sort of famous guy produce it and then i was like yeah that sounds amazing like this is a great situation
26:55 Carey Clayton and then that ended up falling through and then she was she just was like actually this didn't work out with that guy do you just want to produce this and i had like been messed like it just gotten logic and i was like trying to get into that and i i was just like i don't know what i'm doing but yes and did it for dirt cheap and like just like
27:19 Carey Clayton made it my life's mission to like really learn how to produce and just like went to youtube academy like you know watching
27:28 Luke F. Walton Yeah.
27:28 Carey Clayton videos probably like three or four hours a day and then talking with luke and danny is any friend i had back to your point anyone who knew anything i was probably like really annoying and just asking tons of questions
27:41 Luke F. Walton there's so many questions when you're learning production it's just like because there's not really good answers
27:49 Carey Clayton sure yeah there's not it's it's it can be a little bit of a dark art sometimes like
27:54 Luke F. Walton for
27:54 Carey Clayton how to achieve something and still it's just like sometimes back to like talking about like not knowing all the music it's like also not knowing all the production tricks is also a blessing too so you're not just like oh yeah i know how to do that it's just like
28:14 Carey Clayton You can just end up with like very unique different things if you're trying to do something but you don't really know how to do it
28:21 Luke F. Walton Yeah, yeah.
28:22 Carey Clayton So you come up with some really cockamamie way to do it and it just creates its own vibe
28:28 Luke F. Walton Yes, yes, yes, yes. No, I love the whole like shoot for the moon, fall at the stars kind of thing. But I try and engineer it myself sometimes where I'll have in my head like a reference.
28:39 Carey Clayton Mm
28:39 Luke F. Walton right
28:39 Carey Clayton -hmm.
28:39 Luke F. Walton it's like it's like drawing a horse from memory like i
28:43 Carey Clayton Yeah,
28:43 Luke F. Walton will not go listen to the reference like totally. i it's somewhere in there and i'm gonna try and do it then i'll go check the reference like that's totally different but like you know that's the point
28:54 Carey Clayton it's funny what your memory does like how it colors things you thought you like knew really at least for me things like i thought i knew really well exactly how something sounded and then it's like oh wow i just maybe that's how i wanted it to sound like over
29:10 Luke F. Walton yeah yeah well
29:11 Carey Clayton time my taste has changed or something yeah
29:14 Luke F. Walton it's i do think that there's um there's an element of creativity and having a bad memory well
29:21 Carey Clayton Oh, man. Yeah, go on. I'm very interested in that lead
29:25 Luke F. Walton yeah
29:26 Carey Clayton -in.
29:26 Luke F. Walton so like i've had this where i have tried to commit to memory a song because i didn't have a recording device or notation paper whatever the hell and then i'll come back and i'll play it again and i know it's different but it was like close enough and maybe it's cooler
29:43 Luke F. Walton and sometimes like i'll try and engineer that too where it's like okay i might have recorded a demo but instead of checking the demo when i go to record the proper version i'll try and record it based on memory and then i'll go check the demo and
29:58 Carey Clayton Oh,
29:58 Luke F. Walton then i'll be like okay which one's cooler and the same way that like i don't know the idea of
30:02 Luke F. Walton creative borrowing that's really creativity is like stealing or whatever i think it's actually more nuanced of only so much breaks into like the cell wall of your memory even like melodies or lyrics it's so funny how there will be gaps even on a song that you might really know very well but they'll be like oh wait how did that verse go like oh the bridge there was a bridge it kind of
30:27 Luke F. Walton And but some of those can be the magical places for you to fill in the blanks and then make your own song
30:33 Carey Clayton Totally. I mean, I feel like I can really relate to that.
30:37 Luke F. Walton Really?
30:38 Carey Clayton Oh, yeah. I feel like I like kind of walk two worlds of being like a studio guy making like a new song every day and
30:47 Luke F. Walton Yeah.
30:48 Carey Clayton then a guy who like plays repertoire in like bands and like sometimes I find it. it's like really challenging i'm like oh
30:57 Luke F. Walton Yep.
30:58 Carey Clayton sometimes if i've just been making new stuff all the time i'm just like i don't know how to play any songs i'm
31:05 Luke F. Walton Exactly. Totally.
31:06 Carey Clayton just like i just feel like i don't know a single song how to play on guitar like
31:11 Luke F. Walton Happens
31:11 Carey Clayton which
31:11 Luke F. Walton to me all the
31:12 Carey Clayton is
31:12 Luke F. Walton time.
31:12 Carey Clayton yeah
31:12 Luke F. Walton Yeah, it's crazy.
31:13 Carey Clayton which is obviously we
31:14 Luke F. Walton It
31:14 Carey Clayton both know
31:14 Luke F. Walton is false.
31:14 Carey Clayton like hundreds of tunes it's in there but yeah it's so funny yes
31:20 Luke F. Walton I want to ask you about China. So TNT's
31:23 Carey Clayton yeah
31:24 Luke F. Walton dream, an SPR spur, I don't know. You tell me. Tell me how that opportunity came about what writing in China is like and how you got two number one songs.
31:36 Carey Clayton the preface of it is like sounds like a scam or like you wouldn't believe it but someone on instagram hit me up um first for
31:44 Carey Clayton Think production lessons and then that didn't pan out and then they came back and asked me to produce an artist a Chinese artist who was in LA for a few days
31:57 Carey Clayton and ended up doing that project and like everything went smoothly it's like okay this is like this guy's real because i i didn't you never know from a faraway country and internet's full of scammers but he wasn't and um and then shortly after that he's like he asked me if i could make any sort of k-pop-esque demos and back to Great Good Fine Ok the first person i thought of was was john yeah we we've written
32:23 Carey Clayton geez over a few years probably like 80 songs i
32:27 Luke F. Walton Wow.
32:28 Carey Clayton mean we really went hard and yeah so we have this contact out there who's essentially an anr and pitches these songs to people it's funny because we've we've never jjfo actually went to tour in china but it's just totally like unrelated to this
32:44 Luke F. Walton Cool.
32:44 Carey Clayton this came many years later through a different avenue but um So we never we don't go to China to write with Chinese artists. Unfortunately, that would be fun,
32:54 Luke F. Walton That'd
32:55 Carey Clayton but
32:55 Luke F. Walton be fun, yeah.
32:55 Carey Clayton we we write songs in English. and then they translate them yeah
33:01 Luke F. Walton Cool.
33:01 Carey Clayton and it's the the types of songs we've made over the years are just all over the place like there's the really like predictable kind of like k-pop dancey stuff but then i've made like really like intimate folky ones actually just the other day like yesterday i sent off one that was like almost like stomp clap like old
33:22 Luke F. Walton Cool.
33:23 Carey Clayton school like Yeah. 2010 like lumineers kind of stuff like even some like intricate like emo guitar stuff it's
33:28 Luke F. Walton Cool. Yes.
33:30 Carey Clayton like i don't know it's everything under the sun the fact that two of those songs became number one songs for a while this feels like like one of those goofy fun facts like if i went on a game show that would be like a thing
33:43 Luke F. Walton Oh,
33:43 Carey Clayton i'd say
33:44 Luke F. Walton yeah.
33:44 Carey Clayton because
33:44 Luke F. Walton Yes.
33:45 Carey Clayton it's just like people in the states in the western world it's just like what because
33:52 Carey Clayton it didn't it doesn't like k-pop doesn't cross over like k-pop does it's just like really stays in china so
34:01 Luke F. Walton that's so wild that's awesome have you been able to interact with those artists at all or is it just purely like through anr to them yeah
34:09 Carey Clayton it's really kind of through A&R unfortunately and I wonder what our interaction would be like because I'm not sure how much English they speak and I know how little Mandarin I speak which is none uh i
34:26 Luke F. Walton You're going to drop some ominous.
34:28 Carey Clayton know ni hao hello but that's about it um yeah i mean it would be it would be definitely i'm hoping for the chance to go over there and i had a great time when we did that tour over there yeah one thing i will say about that though so we were hitting it really hard A few years ago, and then this last year, you know, as many musicians, I've always had the recent kind of anxiety about AI.
34:53 Luke F. Walton Yeah.
34:54 Carey Clayton And I haven't seen that really hit anything I do stateside. But in China, it was just like, oh. they're like doing lots of AI and
35:05 Luke F. Walton Mmm,
35:06 Carey Clayton like like our kind of like selling song business kind of dried up for like a year because and but I ended up doing some gigs where I like reproduced stuff that had clearly been prompted by an AI
35:20 Luke F. Walton whoa. That's
35:21 Carey Clayton and so that
35:22 Luke F. Walton bizarre.
35:22 Carey Clayton was it was really bizarre and
35:25 Luke F. Walton Yeah.
35:25 Carey Clayton it was not my favorite thing to do
35:28 Luke F. Walton I
35:28 Carey Clayton because it
35:28 Luke F. Walton would imagine.
35:28 Carey Clayton yeah it's it was just like kind of both at the same time very like down the middle and predictable and then also like nonsensical like i kind of remember some melodies i'd be like no one would it's like what No one would do this. This is making me feel crazy.
35:51 Luke F. Walton yeah yeah he's like an alien man like you're transcribing alien music
35:56 Carey Clayton Yeah, I guess. Yeah. and it was just like you
36:00 Luke F. Walton that's
36:00 Carey Clayton know so i'd
36:00 Luke F. Walton weird
36:01 Carey Clayton so much rather work from like a really raw awful demo of a human
36:05 Luke F. Walton right yeah for sure for sure for sure
36:07 Carey Clayton i'm like at least i'm feeling something from this person this was just like oh man i have to put all the feeling into this how do i give this like life from like such a sterile like beginning no
36:21 Luke F. Walton Yes. I'm curious about the
36:23 Carey Clayton no problem
36:23 Luke F. Walton rehearsal and like audition, like getting gigs for these bigger artists and things like that.
36:29 Carey Clayton yeah
36:29 Luke F. Walton What is that process like? How do you go about it? If somebody wants to move to L.A. tomorrow and like start trying to get gigs?
36:38 Carey Clayton What are they in
36:38 Luke F. Walton Um,
36:39 Carey Clayton for? I think to preface this, I was like, I think on one hand, I could count all the auditions I've ever done.
36:46 Luke F. Walton hey, that's good. That's a good takeaway, though, for a lot of people because I think a lot of people view it like American Idol or something like I'm going to go to L.A. and go to all the auditions.
36:55 Carey Clayton Yeah. And a lot of people, I know that's not how they've gotten any of their gigs. I think that era came and went like that was kind of.
37:04 Carey Clayton a while ago i think really the thing to do is find your people like the people who you like making music with and also it's like important beyond music too like people you just like genuinely like like is also really important building that community because i think that's the stuff that i've gotten on have come through like avenues i wouldn't have expected but it's come through
37:31 Carey Clayton through maintaining relationships and like i feel like saying maintaining relationships is actually not what i mean because that feels so like you have house plants or something that you're trying to just like it's like genuinely like surrounding i've been lucky to surround myself and work with people who i really enjoy what they do musically and as people and i'm really lucky that that has like bared fruit in career moves so
37:56 Luke F. Walton Really well said.
37:57 Carey Clayton yeah i think i think it's like yeah i want to like play for katie perry or whatever whatever hot gig or chaperone and it's like i think it's just being open to finding people and like you will end up on something like that it might not be the one you thought because also there's probably there's probably only one spot it's
38:16 Luke F. Walton Yeah.
38:16 Carey Clayton like what are the odds you
38:17 Luke F. Walton Exactly.
38:17 Carey Clayton know it's just like there's versions of that all around
38:22 Luke F. Walton Yes. Really well said. So this show is called Love Music More and this segment is called Love Music Why. Your last answer made me excited for this next answer. So why do you love music?
38:37 Carey Clayton I mean, I could answer that in
38:40 Luke F. Walton Is
38:40 Carey Clayton the biggest
38:40 Luke F. Walton that brutal?
38:41 Carey Clayton way or the smallest way.
38:42 Luke F. Walton You
38:42 Carey Clayton I feel
38:43 Luke F. Walton take
38:43 Carey Clayton like I should have prepared.
38:43 Luke F. Walton it whichever way it's better if you don't prepare. You can always come back and give your written statement later.
38:50 Carey Clayton I definitely won't do that, but off the cuff is always better.
38:54 Luke F. Walton yeah i agree jazz baby
38:57 Carey Clayton Yeah, jazz. I think right now what I'm feeling is I love music because it's connected me to people from such vastly different backgrounds and cultures that doing anything else, there's like no way that would have happened. You know, there's obviously the like music as a universal language. And I've really felt that it's like really, it almost like makes me well up like how beautiful that is.
39:23 Carey Clayton Like I've been lucky to work on projects. I did a record in Nigeria and like instantly just felt like an affinity for the people I was working on.
39:34 Carey Clayton the record with I did like a choreography project in Istanbul one time and that was just like oh yeah we can like speak through music and just all the different people who I've been able to connect with in the states from very different backgrounds back to that that church gig I used to play I probably wouldn't have interacted with that world if it wasn't for my love of music and their love of music
39:58 Carey Clayton and that brought us all together and I will also say it's just it's both like I love both the community aspect of it and like getting to know each other through it but also how it's allowed me to get to know myself too like just being able to like sit in a room and tinker around with sounds and then
40:17 Carey Clayton explore how that makes me feel against it as someone who like i don't know how to put it eloquently but you know learning to express yourself emotionally as a guy in this day and age
40:27 Luke F. Walton Yeah.
40:27 Carey Clayton music really helped me like find that so there's a semi long-winded answer
40:36 Luke F. Walton I really enjoyed it. I really enjoyed it. It resonated very much. So where can people get in touch, listen to your music, listen to the new album?
40:44 Carey Clayton Yeah. Well, I have lots of different music under Carey Clayton and then I'm very excited to be launching this new project called Modern Olympia out on the former records. Yeah. Find either of those names on socials and you're in for a world of music. I've been doing this a long time and pour my soul into every project. So, yeah.
41:08 Luke F. Walton Love it. Well, it was so fun having this conversation. Really enjoyed it.
41:12 Carey Clayton This was the blast. Thanks for having me.
The transcript above is a reviewed transcript of this episode (JSON). The recording is the Spotify episode.