Patrick Hart Interview

0:00 Patrick Hart Praise the music, appreciation, 101.

0:11 Luke F. Walton What's up, everybody? I'm Scoobert Doobert. Welcome back to Love Music More. I am joined with Patrick, who is going to take us on a musical journey today to love music even more. What's up, Patrick? How are you doing, man?

0:26 Patrick Hart Doing great. Thanks for having me. I appreciate it. I'll do my best. Take us on that journey.

0:33 Luke F. Walton Yes. Oh, believe me, believe me, we always end up going on a journey on these conversations, but just because, you know, you get two people that love music in the same, at least virtual room, you never know what's going to happen. So I just wanted to start by just talking about kind of your background a little bit about what you're working on now.

0:51 Luke F. Walton And then after that, we'll dig into how you kind of ended up getting there so so what are you working on now what are the some of the things that define your career you know at this moment cool

1:02 Patrick Hart Sure. It's a little all over the place. I'll do my best to, you know, start the journey. So I've worked for a long time as a composer, done a lot of scoring for TV, film, commercials, stuff like that.

1:20 Patrick Hart i've been in bands and stuff like that too um getting more into the video game world but

1:26 Luke F. Walton Oh, cool.

1:27 Patrick Hart um also kind of like parallel to that um i could do a lot of like commission composition work for ensembles for whatever else and so i'm kind of also trying to use the like game engines and stuff for that

1:42 Luke F. Walton That's

1:42 Patrick Hart I think

1:42 Luke F. Walton cool.

1:43 Patrick Hart it's a real flexible way to do a lot of neat stuff in the music world so exploring like algorithmic and procedural music you know both for for game purposes and for and for for art so yeah that's like a lot of it and then a lot of other tangential stuff too I'm trying to just just make stuff all the time for you

2:05 Luke F. Walton Yes.

2:06 Patrick Hart know for money and for fun so

2:08 Luke F. Walton Yes. That resonated so deeply. The number one goal, just make stuff.

2:13 Patrick Hart But also

2:14 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

2:15 Patrick Hart make money.

2:16 Luke F. Walton But also make money. Yeah. I'm still struggling a little bit with that

2:19 Patrick Hart It's

2:20 Luke F. Walton second part.

2:20 Patrick Hart possible. It's possible.

2:23 Luke F. Walton So yeah,

2:23 Patrick Hart That's

2:23 Luke F. Walton I'm super excited to dig into technology and into all of that because I kind of, you know, I've done a couple pods on 20th century music. and talking about you know like

2:37 Patrick Hart Oh, cool.

2:38 Luke F. Walton just a little taste because i think that a lot of especially people that are hadn't studied music or whatever they look at 20th century music and go okay i don't get it or like that's noisy or wow how high art or whatever but i think that there's there's so much that ends up influencing what we're making today out of that kind of world and i'm so curious what your take on like 21st century music is and how like we're kind of

3:03 Luke F. Walton evolving as a composer i feel like you're gonna have a really interesting take on that but let's bury the lead a little bit because i'm super excited to dig into that if i

3:10 Patrick Hart Sure.

3:10 Luke F. Walton first want to hear your story how did you kind of you

3:12 Patrick Hart Okay.

3:13 Luke F. Walton know grow into this you're saying you play in different bands what was the first instrument that you picked up what was your first like okay i love music moment like how did you how'd you get in what was your gateway drug

3:26 Patrick Hart Sure. I mean, yeah, I don't know. My parents were musicians.

3:29 Luke F. Walton Oh,

3:29 Patrick Hart So

3:30 Luke F. Walton cool.

3:30 Patrick Hart it was kind of just, I never really got, yeah, just kind of just around. I started taking piano lessons when I was a kid and kept doing that. And yeah, that was the beginning.

3:44 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

3:44 Patrick Hart I've been taking piano lessons for a super long time. And yeah, I don't know. I mean, then You know, getting more into, you know, I had computers and stuff when I was a kid and trying to figure out how to make music on computers and, you know, I was like in, you know, crappy high school band and like writing songs for that and stuff and went to school for music and then went to more school for music.

4:13 Patrick Hart Yeah, I don't know if you want to

4:15 Luke F. Walton No, that's perfect.

4:15 Patrick Hart That's

4:15 Luke F. Walton That's great.

4:16 Patrick Hart a broad answer,

4:16 Luke F. Walton When

4:16 Patrick Hart but

4:17 Luke F. Walton you like, from the jump, when you were doing those piano lessons, did you feel like a connection and love for music like this is what I want to do? Or was there a certain kind of light bulb moment that was like, no, I got to go to school, I got to go to school for this, I got to really, really pursue this deeply?

4:32 Patrick Hart that's a tough question. I mean, it was always something that I really white to do and I think it was super just like a regular thing for me since my parents were doing

4:45 Luke F. Walton it Yeah,

4:45 Patrick Hart for a career.

4:45 Luke F. Walton yeah

4:48 Patrick Hart And I don't know, I think it was it's a weird thing. I think I did a lot of it without thinking about it like that much.

4:54 Luke F. Walton Mm-hmm.

4:54 Patrick Hart I mean, when I went to college, like I had to think about if I was going to go to music school or not. So that was the first like,

5:00 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

5:00 Patrick Hart you know, it's like, oh, you know, I got to give this a little bit of thought and figure out what I'm going to do. And then I went to music school. So

5:09 Patrick Hart but yeah i don't know there's something i mean i i did a lot of different stuff as a kid but piano was definitely and like writing songs and and writing music was something that i always i always really clicked with

5:22 Luke F. Walton That's awesome.

5:23 Patrick Hart So just kind of internalizes a part of me from the beginning,

5:26 Luke F. Walton That's

5:26 Patrick Hart I

5:27 Luke F. Walton great.

5:27 Patrick Hart guess.

5:27 Luke F. Walton Yeah, I know. Native to composition and to piano and that, I mean, that's such an awesome path. And part of me is quite jealous that I had to come to music later in life when, you know, you had an earlier starting gate from me, so I'm still trying to

5:46 Patrick Hart No,

5:46 Luke F. Walton catch

5:46 Patrick Hart but it's nice

5:46 Luke F. Walton up.

5:46 Patrick Hart though. It's nice to have a click moment, which I...

5:49 Luke F. Walton Yeah, yeah, but it's good.

5:50 Patrick Hart I don't know it's it's a tough question I'm not sure that I could think of one maybe there was one when I was like five but I just don't remember because it was a long friggin time ago but yeah I don't know you have like a moment that's like that jumps out for you

6:04 Luke F. Walton yeah kind of i actually got that like there they took a while i think it was i don't know just my brain developing or whatever the music that i was exposed to as a kid for me to like really like get music you know it took until i was like probably 11 or 12 to be like yes

6:17 Patrick Hart this is music like i understand why people like this thing and before it was just something that was kind of like on in the background which is weird but i had a i had a light switch that um maybe some people would argue would have been better if that light was never switched but uh it was and so here i am

6:36 Patrick Hart Yeah, I think about that sometimes. yeah yeah totally I have to remember. Now I have to remember sometimes, you know. Oh, yeah. People like music. Music is great. But, you know, it's like a forced thing. Maybe you can help me to, you know, to learn to love music more because,

6:52 Patrick Hart there you we go for know, it's been a long time for me. And so sometimes I forget and I have to like remember it. I feel like

6:57 Patrick Hart sure for that's like sure that's and i think that yeah an ongoing concern. it is it is i i agree with you like it but i think that that's something that um people that might you know not not create might not um completely get that And where when you take music and you turn it into your profession,

7:13 Patrick Hart there are natural up and downs just in your profession. You apply that to that thing that you love. And now there's this fragility and emotional weight that it's hard to have some professional distance because it is part of you and it is something that you create and something that you've spent so long cultivating that it's a unique career choice to say the least. To say the least.

7:41 Patrick Hart Yeah.

7:41 Luke F. Walton So I want to talk to you a little bit about kind of music school and what you drill down on. Did you study composition, performance? What was kind of your focus there?

7:53 Patrick Hart In recent memory, I studied composition. And I also there's like a studio writing program that I did as well, which kind of had like I don't know. We have recording studio access and we're learning a little bit about production and that kind of thing. That's where I really kind of learned how to produce in like a reasonable

8:12 Patrick Hart Mm-hmm. way. And then I was working and a few years later, after school finished, I went back to grad school at McGill in Montreal

8:23 Patrick Hart Cool. and studied composition there. Cool. And that was more of like a straight ahead conservatory composition program. Yeah, that's the background.

8:32 Patrick Hart Did you learn any of the technical kind of like the stuff that ended up paying dividends with video game music or did you have to kind of learn that as you were as you were going down that new path?

8:44 Patrick Hart Yeah, that is interesting. I would say that, I mean, I learned a lot in school and it was totally worthwhile. I would say that it was not like like I was learning skills that I needed for my profession really

9:02 Patrick Hart Mm hmm. that much maybe undergrad I'm undergrad a lot of the like basic recording stuff you know I learned but I learned a lot of stuff just kind of on the job

9:11 Patrick Hart um and then like on my own later on going back to grad school was not like like I think the only thing you can do with a composition degree is teach composition and I don't want to do that so it was kind of just like I want to go back and learn some more things and um I mean I learned a ton and I met a lot of people who I still work with today and I'm still friends with today and it's hard to like extrapolate those things but it's not like a it's not like a trade you

9:37 Patrick Hart bass i don't know it's it's kind of weird it's hard to it's hard to think back like i must have learned things that i use there but

9:43 Patrick Hart Right. um but i'm also just a real like like learn stuff on my own person and especially now because you can just learn like literally anything um on the internet without too much trouble um so all sorts of like learning game engine stuff um has been like

10:00 Patrick Hart go online and figure stuff out i mean i've also done a lot of work as like a graphic designer and motion designer

10:05 Patrick Hart Yeah. and that's all like self-taught stuff and you know just check out some books from the library and read some books and go on there and like figure out how to use the how to what the key commands for all the programs are and stuff and like it's kind of um that's i don't know it's interesting how yeah i so it's weird i'm i'm pro

10:30 Patrick Hart you know the democratization of knowledge is fantastic but i also had a great time in school i think schools are really useful so so

10:36 Patrick Hart yeah no i i i feel so both things i feel both things especially like when i don't know i i'm kind of the proponent one of the proponents of like if you learn something so deeply that you start to forget it that's when you like really know it um you know like like you can tell when somebody just learned counterpoint or something and they're like like really doing it and you're like wow that's uh

10:57 Patrick Hart that's something like you are you are applying these things to modern music and i hear it um but like there are there are lessons that you can like learn from studying those things or like jazz harmony or whatever that when you're making pop music you can you pull from the bag and it's best when you're not even knowing that you're pulling from the bag um and i feel like school can kind of like sneak that stuff yeah

11:19 Patrick Hart Yeah, exactly. yeah go for it right And you get the foundation and then from there, like. like like i'm not you know trying to write in the style of you know some 20th century composer or or mozart or beethoven or something when i'm writing but i have i kind of you can kind of build off of things

11:36 Patrick Hart yeah you yeah already know and right in school is good for yeah you have to just forcing me to learn a bunch of stuff they probably

11:42 Patrick Hart without warning wouldn't you like i don't want to do bother to learn on my own so exactly yeah

11:46 Patrick Hart i remember uh ap music theory and having to uh go through those four-part uh vocal writing exercises and be like why can't this go up you're like it's not allowed to go up it has to go down because the other thing went up you know

12:01 Luke F. Walton parallel fifths and eighths and

12:03 Patrick Hart yeah

12:03 Luke F. Walton the joys

12:04 Patrick Hart yeah yeah but now you can just do it now you can just do it and there's no teachers and it's like chill and it's like you have it's just for my own artistic purposes because my aesthetic is parallel fifth it's like you know

12:20 Patrick Hart take that miss madison So yeah, it's like it's not yeah, but you understand so it's like yeah

12:25 Patrick Hart exactly exactly no it ends up it ends up being valuable because then you can like be like okay why is this boring it's like i know what i'm doing you know like like i i get i'm i'm breaking this rule intentionally or unintentionally and it's having certain consequences um so yeah that's super fun let's let's dive into how did you how'd you end up with with working on uh And I guess composition just in general,

12:49 Patrick Hart like how did you, before we get to games too deeply, how did you go from like studying it to working in it, composing for stuff? What were some of your first gigs? What were some kind of like the paths into the real world?

13:05 Patrick Hart I mean, at the end of. college I did a score with somebody else and one or two other people for like a one of the film students was doing like a feature film as

13:20 Patrick Hart Cool. their senior project or something and so we did the score for that and that was kind of you know it was like a real jank like student kind of thing but it was you know but it was also like a lot of music and

13:35 Patrick Hart Yep. it was a good practice and those those people moved to LA and like started doing some production work for some TV company or something and and we did all this and we did some music for them which was kind of a first like professional job I think that ended like

13:52 Patrick Hart kind of badly i think there was like a low down in this like a low level in this company that was kind of like shady like i don't think we i don't even know if we um we ended up like finishing the jobs like we did like all this music for these people

14:11 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

14:11 Patrick Hart to some music house that was doing some music for commercials and end up getting like a visa commercial during the olympics

14:19 Luke F. Walton Amazing.

14:19 Patrick Hart and

14:19 Luke F. Walton Awesome.

14:20 Patrick Hart something like that and so um so some other people so

14:23 Luke F. Walton What kind of,

14:24 Patrick Hart some

14:24 Luke F. Walton if I could,

14:24 Patrick Hart of the people i was working with in school and we finished those

14:26 Luke F. Walton if

14:26 Patrick Hart like a yeah

14:26 Luke F. Walton I could, what kind of orchestration were you doing for the film and then for the Visa commercial? Was this like, was it all MIDI based or were you bringing in people? Was it more classical vibe, rock vibe?

14:38 Patrick Hart no we recorded some stuff i think the film was kind of like like a little bit of like a caper movie sort of and so it had like some some jazz games kids come in and do kind of like a like a jazzy caper movie score i have

14:52 Luke F. Walton It's

14:52 Patrick Hart um no

14:52 Luke F. Walton crime jazz.

14:53 Patrick Hart recollection of whether that was yeah crime jazz um i have no recollection of whether that um would have been any good or not i suspect it would have been maybe not um the visa stuff was like was all over the place i i can't remember i think it was like

15:13 Patrick Hart i think it would have been mostly sample based with like some real guitars and stuff like

15:19 Luke F. Walton that Yeah,

15:20 Patrick Hart um

15:20 Luke F. Walton for sure.

15:20 Patrick Hart but uh yeah forget about that but then yeah so so i mean we started to do some so with some other guys like we started to do some more commercials mostly commercials and things like that um after so i stayed in miami and we're working doing a bunch of different stuff mostly commercials at the beginning but then also some of the like um film jobs Mm and tv

15:43 Luke F. Walton -hmm.

15:44 Patrick Hart things and stuff like that um so it was kind of just like yeah at the end of school it's like well we got like a couple of things i didn't really have any idea what i wanted to do after school um so it was like well we could just stay in miami and kind of give it a shot so which uh yeah that was the jumping off point it was just like a

16:04 Luke F. Walton that's great no

16:05 Patrick Hart hope and a dream but

16:07 Luke F. Walton i mean and sometimes sometimes what frustrates me is when you like some of these conversations with people that are established they kind of gloss over the whole like yada yada yada and then i was successful you know it's like yeah but like what happened between there like how'd you get that first rung of the ladder so you could even start climbing you know it seems insurmountable you

16:27 Patrick Hart Oh yeah no

16:28 Luke F. Walton know

16:28 Patrick Hart I feel like um I feel also like I've gone through so many different um types of work that it's been a lot of like a lot of the like first like

16:38 Luke F. Walton Mm-hmm.

16:38 Patrick Hart i don't know i professionally i'm kind of like a like i say yes to everything um even if it's not something that like even if it's like a i'm starting to work on design and something offered me like a design gig or something i'll just like take it um and give it a shot like that first run on the ladder like i feel like i've had a lot of first runs on the ladder i guess so but you

17:00 Luke F. Walton But it's,

17:01 Patrick Hart know for

17:01 Luke F. Walton to that

17:01 Patrick Hart that

17:01 Luke F. Walton point,

17:01 Patrick Hart too i

17:02 Luke F. Walton yeah.

17:02 Patrick Hart mean there's been a lot of us it's been like i don't know uh yeah i don't know it's been the early days of miami were like crazy but i was like a kid and you know playing in a punk band and like all these other like stupid ridiculous bands like at the time and like making you know like ridiculous music for for best buy or something but it was like sometimes it was real foreign you know between stuff that we're all like we're all pretty young so it's like

17:29 Patrick Hart i don't know looking back i mean it was not a very professional operation and

17:32 Luke F. Walton Uh-huh.

17:32 Patrick Hart it was kind of i don't know it was like it was a lot of a lot of those early years you know i was like living in a closet for a little while and like like it was like a big closet but it was like a closet in somebody's house for a little while and a little desk in there and bed above it um and i just i'm just going like be working on stuff for like like commercial jobs and um i don't know you know it was

17:59 Patrick Hart That stuff adds stuff like pays well, but sometimes it's been a long time before you want a job because you demo all these jobs and you

18:05 Luke F. Walton exactly yep

18:06 Patrick Hart lose most of them.

18:07 Luke F. Walton yeah no i mean it's i swear like yeah

18:11 Patrick Hart It's a little bit of a struggle at first.

18:13 Luke F. Walton it is a struggle i i've done that i've done that too i i lived in a i lived in a back house that kind of looked like a storage area um in venice beach it was it was great because i could walk to the beach but um um i was yeah my ceiling above

18:27 Patrick Hart Yeah.

18:28 Luke F. Walton my bed was like about that much and the bed was on the floor um and whenever the host the actual person that owned the house would like have a party people would be trying to break into my place because they thought it was like a little pool room or whatever i'm like no i live here don't don't come in it's

18:46 Patrick Hart yeah

18:47 Luke F. Walton the life

18:47 Patrick Hart yeah it was in a nice neighborhood the closet the closet space i could walk to like the bay in

18:51 Luke F. Walton there you

18:52 Patrick Hart miami

18:52 Luke F. Walton go yeah

18:52 Patrick Hart and it was like

18:52 Luke F. Walton exactly

18:52 Patrick Hart there's like a little canal nearby it

18:54 Luke F. Walton yeah i mean i i

18:55 Patrick Hart was

18:55 Luke F. Walton have

18:55 Patrick Hart cool it was a good time it was like you know when you're 20 or whatever it's like who cares like

18:58 Luke F. Walton who cares i live in a closet

19:00 Patrick Hart yeah i'm not gonna do that now but

19:01 Luke F. Walton i don't want to be there especially being locked to cool to that um that's classic that's super classic i i would love to um so i would love to kind of okay so now that next jump let's let's go into kind of composing for for games because that's such an interesting challenge and i would love to hear kind of your your mindset into like maybe how you started and kind of where you're at like that that evolution of participation in the medium

19:30 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

19:31 Patrick Hart yeah sure and to be clear like this is like a new thing for me i'm not like working on games really right now i'm like

19:40 Patrick Hart like i i've worked on a on an indie game that kind of like fizzled out a little bit and like the publisher stuff never really went through um but that's really like the game thing i've done and kind of most of what i'm doing i'm building some i'm working on some like procedural music tools for unreal engine right now and i want to kind of use that as a jumping off point and then make my own game which would be like like kind of like a interactive music

20:08 Patrick Hart procedural music playground sort of thing audio

20:11 Luke F. Walton Right.

20:11 Patrick Hart visual thing

20:12 Luke F. Walton Yes.

20:13 Patrick Hart and uh yeah i don't know like i've been making a lot of little like prototypes

20:18 Luke F. Walton and Okay.

20:18 Patrick Hart stuff but then i'm also using it for a couple of like art commissions so that's kind of like where i'm at with it but what i'm coming at it from is it's kind of like i just think the game engines are all of a sudden kind of become like like one of the best tools for making interactive art and music and that's that's i think that's a new thing that's like like the new

20:40 Patrick Hart version of the newest version of unreal engine has basically like like a max msp or reactor type like node-based thing built in i don't know if you're familiar with like max or something but um where you have like you can just drop in like an oscillator and you can connect it to an envelope

20:55 Luke F. Walton Mm

20:55 Patrick Hart and

20:56 Luke F. Walton -hmm.

20:56 Patrick Hart then you can just draw the little wires and you connect that to a filter and then you you know hit the trigger and it plays the note and you hear it and like you can build an entire kind of like a modular synth or something like in there and then you can tell it to you know play this little melody and

21:13 Luke F. Walton Uh huh.

21:13 Patrick Hart the cool thing is that then like you can do it you have to be like play this little melody like when the player like presses the a button or something or if you're in an installation or something like you got a big button somebody presses it and a bunch of stuff happens and it's connected to this render engine that's in real time too so you have all the visual stuff and it's just all of a sudden it's like they've kind of put all these things together and it's just a lot

21:36 Patrick Hart more robust of a tool than

21:37 Luke F. Walton Amazing.

21:37 Patrick Hart a lot of a lot of other like purpose-built tools

21:41 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

21:42 Patrick Hart that people have been using before plus i like games a lot so i play a lot of video games so it's like so that's like okay so this is like the art side of it and then the other thing for me personally is that just uh like as kind of i mean i don't know i'm a little bit jaded about like music as a commodity and

22:05 Patrick Hart I think that there's some interesting artistic potentials, but then also like just viability as a commodity potential and like releasing. some artwork or some music work as a as like a game and

22:20 Luke F. Walton Yes.

22:20 Patrick Hart you know what i want to do kind of is like make these compositions that are like interactive compositions that the player is like a performer and they're performing it with an xbox controller but they don't know because there's like a score and like a narrative and there's like game elements right so

22:37 Luke F. Walton Yeah, right.

22:37 Patrick Hart that's

22:38 Luke F. Walton It's genius. I really like that.

22:40 Patrick Hart like yeah so i'm coming out from that way and it's interesting because i've been meeting a lot of getting a lot of people in the industry and most people are coming at it from like the the game side of

22:49 Luke F. Walton things Yeah.

22:49 Patrick Hart you know they've been working in games for a long time or you know they're a game composer trying to do some of this stuff but there's fewer people coming at it from the art world and I feel like

23:00 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

23:00 Patrick Hart I feel like that's I feel like it's going to change because it's you know it's it's super interesting and super cool and super easy to get into so yeah

23:08 Luke F. Walton Yeah, with Unreal, it's so much more accessible now. um i we do i

23:12 Patrick Hart Yeah,

23:13 Luke F. Walton have some

23:13 Patrick Hart totally.

23:13 Luke F. Walton stuff i'd love to connect you i don't i don't know if you know max horwich but um he he did okay you're gonna like him i'll connect you with him just because he's he's right he's super simpatico with all this stuff um he's building a game as well and i feel like you guys would get on um but he he worked on some music video stuff with me um and we did you know a bunch of green screen stuff and used the game uh game engine to drop me in a 360 environment

23:38 Luke F. Walton um so you can like put on a headset and just use your phone and look around and it's basically i'm in a video game level that we downloaded and modded out and then dropped a bunch of me performing different things in that environment that's kind of like our you know our first foray into the whole world but the the goal would be to take that and make it interactive but it's it's incredible how much more accessible it is where it's like we're you know we're also going for like low poly like n64 kind of style stuff

24:04 Luke F. Walton And so you

24:05 Patrick Hart So,

24:05 Luke F. Walton can just wrap these little objects around and all of the you can put lighting in and all the shadows like interact in, you know, by the renderer and we're not spending more than like 20 bucks. You know, it's it's incredibly accessible.

24:18 Patrick Hart yeah, yeah.

24:19 Luke F. Walton And so I'd love to hear that you're coming at it from the actual like immersive like interactive sense and making the music the main thing. That's that's super, super exciting. Yeah.

24:34 Patrick Hart It's cool. It's cool because it's because that part of it, it's always been yeah, you can like build sort of, you know, these environments and stuff. But to be able to have like an immersive and responsive musical component to it is kind of like a newly very easy, like there's stuff that's done it, but there's not a lot of games that have really like exploited that potential.

24:56 Patrick Hart very well i was trying to find a lot of games and there's not a whole lot of stuff that's really doing it stuff that where you can kind of you know you have different stems that

25:04 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

25:04 Patrick Hart are playing along

25:05 Luke F. Walton Totally.

25:05 Patrick Hart and you

25:05 Luke F. Walton You can interact

25:06 Patrick Hart know

25:06 Luke F. Walton with

25:06 Patrick Hart you jump you jump down into this place and one of them there's a bunch of drums come up you know or whatever but it's not like it's not like you're the melodies are being generated in real time or things like that that's like There's a lot of potential with that.

25:19 Luke F. Walton totally and i love the idea too with using oscillators and filters and stuff because you know i've talked about this a little bit on the podcast but maybe just to like help with listeners synthesizers have got you know a bunch of different things going on but fundamentally it's very simple stuff that gets stacked up to become more complex and so something like the attack the how how quickly that thing is happening or if it's swelling and

25:44 Luke F. Walton you could you could say like map that onto a user action in a video game so like say they turn a knob and that's changing the attack like in a door or something like that they're turning a doorknob that's changing the attack on the synthesizer that's playing the oscillator kind of like like a arpeggiated thing in the background and so like those little things that you could change the timbre of the music while keeping the music static where you can you know bring something in like you're talking with the stems or even generating your own melody

26:13 Luke F. Walton melodies which is that's like the next next level thing that i'm really excited that you're discussing yeah

26:18 Patrick Hart Yeah. Yeah, it's cool. It's... yeah so you have yeah exactly that's a good good summary of it and you have access to all these different components where you can synthesize like like that's a that's a big thing too

26:32 Luke F. Walton Cool.

26:32 Patrick Hart where you can actually synthesize music in the game engine right like that's that wasn't really something that you could do very practically before but now you have like a sine oscillator that's just going like you know whatever and you can you can say you can say like all right i want to like play these or i want to start playing these arpeggios on a c major

26:51 Patrick Hart you know just like chord tones and just up and keep repeating on the sign oscillator and and then yeah and then map it to whatever controls you want you know have it so the fact that it's synthesizing in the engine too and you're not like like i'm not like making audio files in logic

27:09 Luke F. Walton Yes.

27:09 Patrick Hart or ableton or something and dropping it in i'm just like actually kind of saying like these are the notes and so then from there you can you can have it be like all right like you know i i want to create this emotion and

27:21 Luke F. Walton Mm-hmm.

27:21 Patrick Hart so i'm going to choose like this set of notes that's going to kind of like sound spooky

27:25 Luke F. Walton Mm-hmm.

27:26 Patrick Hart you know and we're going to play those notes now but then when you walk into the space i'm going to pick these other notes that are like magical you know and and that'll make some particle effects come up and it'll be like magical in the space and stuff and all this stuff kind of works in tandem it's all generated in real time and it's It's cool.

27:45 Patrick Hart I think it's really cool for games, but I think there's also a lot of like interactive potential with

27:50 Luke F. Walton Yes,

27:50 Patrick Hart it which

27:50 Luke F. Walton totally.

27:52 Patrick Hart Yeah, so one way or another I'm trying to do try to do both but

27:56 Luke F. Walton yeah both is good uh

27:58 Patrick Hart But I feel like if I also like if I just do a video of this then it's like it goes on YouTube and I make like $20 But if I put on Steam store,

28:05 Luke F. Walton yes

28:05 Patrick Hart then we're

28:06 Luke F. Walton right now

28:07 Patrick Hart talking

28:07 Luke F. Walton we're talking or or if you have an installation

28:09 Patrick Hart oh

28:10 Luke F. Walton people

28:10 Patrick Hart it's

28:10 Luke F. Walton can

28:10 Patrick Hart like more interesting too yeah

28:11 Luke F. Walton yeah well like like um you know the team labs um they do all the visual slash audio installation stuff they're i think they're japan based i don't really know you know um but uh yeah

28:22 Patrick Hart Japan, yeah.

28:22 Luke F. Walton they're they're you know it's really cool stuff and people pay good money you know 30 bucks a ticket or whatever to go experience it because it's something they can't experience anywhere else and i think that you know they take the instagram videos and the you know all that kind of cool stuff too but um

28:38 Luke F. Walton the installation idea is really compelling to me um i saw something it was at uh the broad in la i think i think it was there and it was like basically they they had an old antique house and they had a different performer in each of the rooms in like weird ways and you walk around and you could experience

28:56 Patrick Hart it's

28:56 Luke F. Walton it what's

28:57 Patrick Hart that guy's name he's

28:58 Luke F. Walton that guy's name i know it was super cool yeah

28:59 Patrick Hart uh he's like from Scandinavia somewhere

29:01 Luke F. Walton yeah yeah yeah yeah it was well think of it

29:05 Patrick Hart I

29:05 Luke F. Walton yeah

29:05 Patrick Hart forget but yeah,

29:06 Luke F. Walton and

29:06 Patrick Hart but it was but fantastic installation. Yeah

29:08 Luke F. Walton a really good example of like i felt i felt like it also helped people see what music was because sometimes people just hear music as this like big wall of sound um going to a concert can help because you can like be like oh the guitarist is soloing now that's what a guitar sounds like the organist is doing this and that's what an organ sounds like and so you can kind of break it down visually um but when you have

29:29 Luke F. Walton um like different components that you can interact with the different um kind of views that you can zoom in or zoom out on i think that helps people understand music more like they can get it it's more digestible so then when they see the whole thing in tandem they can like maybe

29:46 Luke F. Walton isolate the little bits of music that you know trained musicians can totally do but not everybody has the ability to be like that's the cello or whatever you know it opens up

29:55 Patrick Hart Yeah

29:56 Luke F. Walton new new avenues for discovery and play within music Yeah.

30:01 Patrick Hart yeah so that kind of thing is super accessible where you know you can have the different instruments different the cello you know 3d space you have a piano in a 3d space and you can go you can just walk virtually to these places and have them exchange all the spatialization stuff is really good you know so you can do that kind of thing yeah i mean it's um and then there's also something about just being able to interact with something like even if it's just with a controller to you know

30:30 Patrick Hart like i don't know you know you produce music and you kind of understand like you just you set up like a cool effect and you got like two little sliders and

30:38 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

30:38 Patrick Hart you can just get into the situation where you just like you're just jamming out with like some sliders Oh, right and

30:44 Luke F. Walton yeah.

30:44 Patrick Hart it's like fun and

30:44 Luke F. Walton Yes.

30:45 Patrick Hart that's not like that's not you don't have to be like a you don't have to like take guitar lessons to be able to just like have some fun with effects but then if you just take a you set that up for somebody on a controller and you're just moving the little sticks and that's

31:00 Patrick Hart making crazy noises and stuff like this it's actually like pretty fun and you know i think there's

31:06 Patrick Hart I don't know, it's just like an engaging thing for people who aren't like working at DAW all the time or whatever. So hopefully.

31:13 Luke F. Walton probably more engaging than working hopefully does it feel like pro tools wants to kill me um the there's there's a fun there's a fun thing to i think like the spirit that you're bringing to it is really good because i like i think some people think put music so much on a pedestal especially those that have like gone to conservatory or whatever and think like you have to have to put in

31:35 Patrick Hart Yeah

31:35 Luke F. Walton all the blood and sweat and tears you have to play piano or you have to play violin or whatever some like instrument that punishes you for years before you even sound tolerable but then there's the other thing of like you're just two knobs like play with the knobs you're making music still you really are and it's like that i like that approach because it welcomes people in and then if later they want to learn violin that's cool but it's like you don't have to just engage with music

31:58 Luke F. Walton and and play it because it's meant to be played and it's meant to be experienced by every human i really don't think that it's not that it's supposed to be like there's a cast of music makers and then there's everybody else i actually think that everybody's supposed to be a music maker even if you don't have rhythm i don't care it's like it's not about that if you could express if you could express emotion i think you should be making music ensemble and what you're doing can

32:21 Patrick Hart yeah

32:21 Luke F. Walton help

32:22 Patrick Hart someone i'll give you i'll give you two um i'll give you two like responses to that

32:27 Luke F. Walton Please

32:28 Patrick Hart with like a positive and negative one which um so the first one my my mom yeah my mom was a music teacher for a long time she also played clarinet and was a copyist but um but then then she like went and taught music at elementary school and uh she had this this quote up on her wall which i always really liked just like real cheesy but it was uh the woods would be silent if no bird sang except the best

32:52 Luke F. Walton Nice that's good that's

32:54 Patrick Hart this

32:54 Luke F. Walton a good one

32:54 Patrick Hart is

32:54 Luke F. Walton yeah

32:54 Patrick Hart like to your point right it's

32:55 Luke F. Walton right

32:56 Patrick Hart like

32:56 Luke F. Walton yeah

32:56 Patrick Hart everybody you know you're not like you don't want to hear the one soloist bird um and then so the flip side of that is um is my hot take for the day i'll give you my hot

33:04 Luke F. Walton please

33:04 Patrick Hart take for the day

33:04 Luke F. Walton i

33:04 Patrick Hart is

33:05 Luke F. Walton was ready for

33:05 Patrick Hart that

33:05 Luke F. Walton it

33:05 Patrick Hart uh which is uh is that music is worthless um this is my this is my uh this

33:11 Luke F. Walton nice i like that

33:13 Patrick Hart is my thing so so then you know if you take that then it's like yeah anybody can make music because it's like why should there be a special cast of music that goes when it's worthless I don't know I'll I can expand on

33:25 Luke F. Walton I,

33:25 Patrick Hart that but maybe

33:25 Luke F. Walton no,

33:25 Patrick Hart I'll bounce

33:26 Luke F. Walton I'd like to, I feel like,

33:27 Patrick Hart that

33:27 Luke F. Walton yeah,

33:27 Patrick Hart off you first and see what yeah, you see how you feel about

33:29 Luke F. Walton see my, see my response as we both have a pregnant pause as we sip our drink.

33:35 Patrick Hart bring the coffee back over

33:36 Luke F. Walton Yeah, exactly. Nice. Okay, music being worthless. Okay, so what I, what I, what I think is, what I think is interesting about that is the idea of it not being.

33:48 Luke F. Walton precious so i could i could see i could resonate more with music is unprecious yeah

33:55 Patrick Hart That's positive, Stan.

33:56 Luke F. Walton but it's a little bit harder for me to say music is worthless because i do think that the the like cliches of like music being universal language and music being like a different way to communicate with each other reflect something fundamental and true about the universe itself i'm not sure if string theory or any of that is actually real But I at least resonate

34:19 Patrick Hart I

34:19 Luke F. Walton with

34:19 Patrick Hart can't

34:19 Luke F. Walton that.

34:19 Patrick Hart I'm a musician I can't challenge you on that so

34:21 Luke F. Walton Yeah, I don't know. But like I at least I like the idea of there are so many waves in the universe itself and music itself is a wave that we're able to perceive, whereas light is a wave that we're not really able to perceive in the same way. We can perceive color, but that's only a very limited set of the spectrum and we can't see it actually, you know, it's.

34:46 Luke F. Walton like we can't interact with it in the same way that we can audio because we're these small little

34:54 Luke F. Walton beings that aren't like multi-dimensional speed of light kind of beings but we can reach the speed of sound you know with the airplane

35:00 Luke F. Walton So I like to think of that as like sound is our little version of the big thing, which is like the universe or gravitational waves or light waves, you know, these things that all kind of like ripple out and then sound is our little baby version of what we can actually perceive, manipulate and communicate through.

35:19 Luke F. Walton And so that's why I don't think it's worthless unless you're saying that the universe itself is worthless, which case maybe I'll grant you that because I don't have any way to prove that it's worth. It's worth anything, but yeah, that's, that's my,

35:33 Patrick Hart Okay.

35:33 Luke F. Walton that's

35:33 Patrick Hart That

35:33 Luke F. Walton my musical

35:33 Patrick Hart was beautiful.

35:34 Luke F. Walton experience.

35:34 Patrick Hart I like Thanks. that. No, that was terrific. I can tell that you care deeply about this. That wasn't just like fired off from the hip. That was like a, you know, you're like amongst or something for that, which I appreciate.

35:49 Luke F. Walton Yeah, you got to find my voice. Good work.

35:52 Patrick Hart My boy, I will concede that that that music as an art form is clearly not worthless and that's like, you know, so people kind of go there and it's like, okay, yeah, but and but music is a commodity.

36:05 Luke F. Walton Okay.

36:06 Patrick Hart I think this is this is like my little hobby horse and this is where I think I think years of of just getting screwed over by music industry people and and and,

36:17 Luke F. Walton All

36:18 Patrick Hart you

36:18 Luke F. Walton those commercials

36:18 Patrick Hart know, just

36:18 Luke F. Walton and

36:19 Patrick Hart and seeing.

36:19 Luke F. Walton stuff. Yeah.

36:20 Patrick Hart seeing music achieve and and but then on the flip side on the positive side also seeing music be more like democratic than it's ever been is so much easier and less expensive to make professional music if you just need like at this point like with almost anything it's like you just need ideas to

36:36 Luke F. Walton Yep.

36:36 Patrick Hart make stuff like the technical facility to make something is easier and easier but you know that also makes it like cheaper like it's harder to like

36:46 Patrick Hart you know if you don't have to spend you know a thousand dollars a day to get to rent out a studio to record music then it's like it's you know it's worth worth less than when it was worth nothing so but so i don't know it's it's i i hate to like keep you know i feel crass like bringing money back into things at different parts of the time but it's just something i think about a lot because

37:11 Patrick Hart it is yeah it is um and also i i don't know i try to like when i'm making i'm composing and stuff now and doing art things and stuff i kind of like

37:25 Patrick Hart my my little thing that i've realized that i have something to say about is a totally directly derived from all the commercial work which is critique of capitalism and corporate language and and advertising and stuff which is um a

37:37 Luke F. Walton Yes.

37:38 Patrick Hart scourge and the most i can do to to to stamp it down is i think the better but um but it's the commoditization of things it's you know it's like I don't know. It's hard to grapple with.

37:52 Patrick Hart And that's, I think, why I've also tried to explore doing other things that incorporate music but are not exclusively just like, I don't know, I'm not like making a lot of just stuff that goes on to SoundCloud or something,

38:06 Luke F. Walton Yes,

38:06 Patrick Hart you know.

38:06 Luke F. Walton totally.

38:07 Patrick Hart And I'm trying to like bring other elements in because I think it's, you know, there's still a lot of value.

38:15 Patrick Hart commodity value in music as like a part of something else i think there's a lot of power there too so artistic value as well so i'm trying to like take all the boxes but anyways

38:27 Luke F. Walton No, I get it.

38:28 Patrick Hart maybe

38:29 Luke F. Walton It's a...

38:29 Patrick Hart that's some i don't know i'm just going to say um so that was uh that was my that was my context for my my hot take but the hot take by itself is is I feel

38:40 Luke F. Walton yeah exactly that's classic

38:42 Patrick Hart like I've hit on a good, it's a good hot

38:44 Luke F. Walton take. exactly that'll be the instagram caption it'll be like music is worthless

38:49 Patrick Hart Music is worthless.

38:51 Luke F. Walton click on to learn more it's like a little context yeah i like

38:55 Patrick Hart That's

38:56 Luke F. Walton it i

38:56 Patrick Hart right, anyways.

38:56 Luke F. Walton like it um no it's good it's and it's fun it's fun too because you're talking to somebody that um i'm you know i'm releasing a ton of music that's what i do so i am very much on the um commodity side in a lot of ways um because i am i'm doing a lot of that which is that's and i feel like that's a fun conversation for the two of us to have because i am um i'm pretty far on the other end but however i do resonate with a lot of that

39:21 Luke F. Walton that and um i'm

39:22 Patrick Hart yeah

39:23 Luke F. Walton trying but yeah

39:23 Patrick Hart you're not far on the other end to be clear like like

39:25 Luke F. Walton yeah yeah

39:25 Patrick Hart you're we're both you know we're both making music and finding a home for it you know making stuff we care about you know it's not like it's not like you know maybe the maybe the mediums are a little different but it's like you know

39:42 Luke F. Walton But I'm just saying, I think it's good. It's just I feel like we're fun, even though we're maybe not on the far ends, we're fun foils because of the two ways that we're manifesting those, the same kind of goal. But I'm doing it through that way because I want.

40:01 Luke F. Walton freedom from my corporate job that is actually you know i'm actually doing good in the world i think somewhat with my corporate job um but yeah i am i am uh i'm putting out a lot of music in order to free myself from that so i can make more music um but yeah it's it's

40:18 Patrick Hart Sweet.

40:18 Luke F. Walton it's but it's an interesting i have that internal struggle too of like am i cheapening my own work or am i um you know not being honest to the kind of music that i want to make make in pursuit of more or in pursuit of pop success or money or whatever and i you know i i think i actually keep those demons at bay by making more like the pace ends up making

40:41 Patrick Hart more

40:41 Luke F. Walton me yeah making me drown out the the the voices of self-doubt it's like as long as i'm as like i'm still going like you know i i i'm a i'm a runner and i feel like it's really hard to to have an internal voice if you can like barely breathe because you're running so fast and i've kind of applied that same thing to music

41:01 Patrick Hart oh that's the good that's a good tip i've never been i'm trying to get into running i've never been able to do it um i hate running

41:08 Luke F. Walton well

41:08 Patrick Hart but

41:08 Luke F. Walton the funny thing is i hate running too for the first for the first month for the first month it sucks it's the worst thing ever and it always happens it like i always think like oh i'll never have that month again something comes up you like get in a funk you get sick whatever and then you have to do that month again

41:28 Luke F. Walton I'm just finishing that month like now and oh my god it's getting fun again but it's like that that ramp up doesn't matter you know how many marathons I've run the first one was the hardest but that ramp up still sucks and the whole time I'm like why do I like this why did I sign up for this one

41:47 Patrick Hart How many marathon time have you run?

41:48 Luke F. Walton i've done three i'm going on four yeah

41:50 Patrick Hart Oh, same.

41:51 Luke F. Walton it's

41:51 Patrick Hart Congrats.

41:51 Luke F. Walton pretty thank you it's fun i'm and it's it's it's it's like a very good mental challenge for me because every single time i doubt myself i think that it's a stupid hobby that i never should have done this and then i get past that first leg and i go oh no i'm pretty like i feel good now like it it flips a switch where even though even though it's painful it's like oh i know why i'm doing this again

42:19 Luke F. Walton it punishes you until you conquer it and then you're good at it again even though i'm not a very good runner i'm pretty slow but like there's there's like that that that first uphill it's just brutal but then you get past it and then it's fun again and you feel proud

42:36 Luke F. Walton then there's something to it with i think with like guitar it felt the same way like i sucked sucked at guitar for a long time and then i was okay at it and all then from there it was pretty smooth sailing but it's like once i got over that first hump where you have the bloody fingers or the no calluses and no finger strength and hurt wrist or whatever then you're fine yeah

42:56 Patrick Hart Yeah. and so yeah i mean it's just it's a similar feeling with if you away from music for a little while

43:02 Luke F. Walton Yes.

43:02 Patrick Hart and you sit down and try to write something it can be like a grind for you know some period of time Yep. and then you know then you then you just you go grind through it and then it's like oh actually this is like all of a sudden it's like oh i just i've just been working for like the past two hours and it's been fun because this thing is cool and it's whatever so

43:21 Luke F. Walton And it's still hard,

43:22 Patrick Hart so so

43:22 Luke F. Walton but it's different. It

43:24 Patrick Hart yeah

43:24 Luke F. Walton changes.

43:24 Patrick Hart exactly exactly but it's uh but it's like yeah it's just the switch flips like you said kind

43:33 Luke F. Walton Yeah,

43:33 Patrick Hart of it's

43:33 Luke F. Walton right.

43:33 Patrick Hart like a mysterious thing

43:34 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

43:34 Patrick Hart so so what like so are you back to your commodity thing are you making like i mean are you making stuff just for like this is artistically like the art that i want to create

43:49 Patrick Hart that's like the purpose sort of like the primary purpose like what's the what's the primary motivation what's the like get you up out of the day like you know wake you up in the day to or this is why get up to like do this um to make this particular thing that yeah is maybe you're going to release it on spotify or whatever but like what's the what's the like the driving

44:09 Luke F. Walton it's it's usually the

44:10 Patrick Hart Dang.

44:10 Luke F. Walton idea itself like the idea and that changes every single time but that's like that's what wakes me up early and i i work in my bedroom because we have a one bedroom and my wife works in the other bedroom so she'll still be asleep over here and i'll be working on music over here and um she'll be like why'd you wake up and i'm like i'm just inspired by this this idea that i gotta like progress and i gotta get that done um

44:32 Luke F. Walton but it's usually the idea ends up picking up its own inertia and then it carries me and that idea can be super multivariate it can be the the sound of an instrument like i got this one slap bass tone and i need to build the whole thing around it because i like that tone so much it might not be my most favorite song but it's like i really like that tone so i need like a vessel for that and or there's the flip side like um one that i'm

44:59 Patrick Hart I'm gonna release a couple weeks called Getting Easier where it's like I have this emotion and this feeling of like where I'm at just you know I got married somewhat recently and now I'm thinking like okay like people are asking about kids and whatever so I had I had to write a song about the things that I'm feeling right now about the pressure and the anxiety about like bringing another human into the world and it was the song idea that carried me through and the arrangement was almost secondary because it just needed to support this song.

45:26 Patrick Hart song but it flips like where it's I'm I care so much as a mixing engineer so the mix needs to sound really good and the rest of the song is secondary or the song is so important so everything else is secondary but it's usually like at a certain point that same light switches where it's like I can't stop I have to keep working on that idea I have a fun one right now that I'm working on.

45:47 Patrick Hart I don't know if I'll release it or not, but it's with the Grimes AI voice and it is

45:53 Patrick Hart Oh creeping me out, man. It sounds so good and it is so scary. And I, that was something I was literally working on like at 1158 and I was like, oh crap, the podcast, I gotta log on. And I was like, I should probably talk to Patrick about the bizarreness.

46:10 Patrick Hart of ai and being able to port my voice onto grimes's voice and actually have it sound like she's saying it it's weird man but i just wanted i wanted to throw that out at you too it's like what do you think about this like this change the growth in technology not just on a game engine but also like ai and changes in composition generative like what how are you feeling right now as a composer

46:38 Patrick Hart it's interesting i mean um it's yeah it's it's real interesting it's Yeah. real interesting i i go back and forth on is it just going to be like we all have like pretty sweet like calculators that are like you know they're just it's just like a tool that like helps us do stuff or is it going to be like is it going to take another jump i mean who i don't know um but it's uh i mean You know, I wouldn't do any of the like, I mean, a lot of the like low.

47:12 Patrick Hart Mm-hmm. stuff you know it's like a like i don't know i'm a vegetarian and i feel like um but i ate meat for a long time and i feel like so i'm kind of like familiar with with meat but i feel like cheap meat now is like i'm like so i'm super into like the like fancy the like lab fake meat but like you know all the like all the new uh anytime there's something like new some new brand in whole foods or whatever i'm just like yes i'll buy i'll buy your weird like

47:42 Patrick Hart like like scallops or some shit you know it's like um fake scallops cool cool it's like great i'm into it i want to eat all of it but i feel like it's gotten to this point where there's no reason to eat like you know you don't have to eat like cheap meat anymore they're kind of like done it you know you can get a good you can get a totally good like in and out burger you can get a you know they get those chicken patties are fucking bomb um oh i say sorry sorry um all right okay cool sick

48:11 Patrick Hart and uh you get a chicken sandwich you Yeah. get the they get those like beyond steak like carne asada things anyways the point being is like they've kind of done that and like if you you can't get like a good like ribeye or something now but like you can kind of get all this other stuff and i think that that is like where we're going to get to with ai and like music if any anything that's like playing in an elevator is like is like you'll just be able to do that you'll just be able to like you know type in type in like um

48:40 Patrick Hart you know elevator trap music and it'll just like spit it out for you and you'll be you'll be good

48:45 Patrick Hart Mm hmm. but which i don't know i mean that's like that's like an interesting creative tool also

48:51 Patrick Hart Yeah. um Yeah. i mean it kind of like is a shame for people who are professionally making like elevator trap music or

48:58 Patrick Hart Yeah. whatever but um but i don't know it's like the Mm-hmm. this there's is it the thing that's like killing the most musicians like probably not there's like all sorts of you know terrible industry things that are happening to musicians and stuff from a professional standpoint but um i don't know i mean it's like i've i've been doing stuff with um with the text base

49:24 Patrick Hart AI generation for a while I mean we did a I did a interactive piece with with some friends in like at the beginning of the pandemic like in early 2020 that we had like the GPT stuff Cool. going back it was like a phone tree that you called in and

49:39 Patrick Hart Yeah, so you're going there's like a corporate phone tree so you call in and you get to like the

49:45 Patrick Hart like you know the home menu or whatever but then you go through and all the all the branches are super weird and you know we had to like sing a song and to beam into space and then it like texts you back with like a mangled version of it

49:57 Patrick Hart Cool. and there's like a there's some like AI response stuff with it with like one of the earlier GPT things

50:02 Patrick Hart Yeah, yeah. and it's like it's a fun tool to use for that kind of thing Yes. but

50:12 Luke F. Walton no it but i i actually think that yeah

50:15 Patrick Hart I read how the Grimes AI voice is good.

50:18 Luke F. Walton it's

50:18 Patrick Hart It actually sounds

50:18 Luke F. Walton actually good

50:18 Patrick Hart fun.

50:19 Luke F. Walton it's actually good it

50:20 Patrick Hart I

50:20 Luke F. Walton gave me haven't it

50:21 Patrick Hart tried it yet.

50:21 Luke F. Walton gave me very weird goosebumps i'm gonna try and like i'm just gonna try and knock out a track really fast and throw it on spotify so it can be one of the earlier ones um we'll see we'll see if it if it's good if it's goodish then i'll you know it doesn't even have to hit the bar of good but like nearby good adjacent um

50:37 Patrick Hart Yeah, I'm thinking kind of like a surf pop. It's going to be weird. Anyway, but going back to kind of what you were talking about on like DAWs and the ease of like creating music and how that makes the idea more important, I feel like that's the same thing with even generative.

50:59 Patrick Hart It's like, it's the juxtaposition of ideas that maybe the ai can execute some of those ideas but i like the general concept of i'm going to have you you know be on a corporate phone tree send a message to space and then i'm going to have the ai mess with it that's the that's the interesting part now is like now you don't have to write the algorithm to mangle it you're able to like export that um time

51:27 Patrick Hart focus more of your time on a new concept or collection in the same way like J Dilla Donuts is one of my favorite LPs because it is it's just such a bizarre filter that he ran all these samples and all these ideas in addition to some of the stuff that he added into and it looks like a snapshot of his brain but he's using a lot of music that other people created and I feel like generative can allow us to do something very similar to like what hip-hop

51:56 Patrick Hart in sampling is kind of doing you can apply that same concept and say like oh i want to make like like a ween style album that jumps from genre to genre it's like i don't want to write the elevator music i'll have the robot do that and

52:09 Patrick Hart Yeah. then i'll focus on my prog song after you know Yeah. It's, it's like, it's, I don't know. People are going to use it for people are going to use it for annoying stuff and people are going to use it for interesting stuff and it'll get more useful for.

52:25 Patrick Hart more people and you know music is worthless so it's like you know it's whatever it's just it's just already it's just another way that like you know and and but as an art form it's not and so it's just another way that you can like maybe make better art which it's tight um and maybe make less money with it which is just the vibe these days

52:45 Patrick Hart right and exactly so you that's the whole goal know one of those things it's um I got like a somebody sent me this like it's like drum plug-in that's like an AI thing where I guess they just like train some like you know some GAN on like their library of like drum samples or whatever so you just like

53:06 Patrick Hart it's like you know it's like a audio you know or vst or whatever you just drop in your thing and it looks like a drum pads but then you just click like generate and it actually is just like sending it to the cloud and they're doing like cloud processing on it and then it just sends you back like an ai generated kick um and just like and they said you know they just hit up a bunch of people to like i don't know i guess trying to get people to like post about it when they first released it i didn't because it sounded like garbage but um but it was interesting and it's kind of like

53:34 Patrick Hart that kind of thing where you can just have like maybe like one little part or something

53:37 Patrick Hart Yeah. I mean what I really want to do I really wanted to do like the annoying work not like make

53:42 Patrick Hart Yes, exactly. a whole track like Right. why don't you just like jump in my session and like line up all the transients so it sounds clean and like cut out all the noise and like I don't know why that's like

53:51 Patrick Hart I know. I don't know, only to like make the image and

53:54 Luke F. Walton right

53:54 Patrick Hart write the song and

53:56 Luke F. Walton right

53:56 Patrick Hart stuff. It's like,

53:56 Luke F. Walton exactly

53:56 Patrick Hart you know, then do the annoying, there's so much like annoying groundwork and like,

54:00 Luke F. Walton I mean it's the same like I want

54:02 Patrick Hart it could

54:02 Luke F. Walton I

54:02 Patrick Hart be doing that instead.

54:03 Luke F. Walton want the robots to be able to like sort my laundry like is that that hard like I don't need you to write a novel

54:13 Patrick Hart Yeah, yeah, exactly exactly, yeah and with that i think i so. think that's i think that's a good place for us to to leave off is is uh as we look to the future maybe maybe we revisit this uh

54:23 Patrick Hart Robot yeah laundry. robot laundry we we revisit this um when the robots have taken over government and um we could could reassess i feel like we didn't say anything to piss off the robot overlords too much though

54:36 Luke F. Walton I think we're generally,

54:38 Patrick Hart Oh,

54:38 Luke F. Walton yeah,

54:38 Patrick Hart why not?

54:39 Luke F. Walton I think we've generally,

54:40 Patrick Hart They will ingest this podcast and analyze

54:42 Luke F. Walton oh, everything.

54:43 Patrick Hart it for offensive statements.

54:46 Luke F. Walton Our only hope is that the AI translation, like when they pull the subtitles that anything bad we said, they just like accidentally think it was a different word based on our accents or audio fidelity. So, yeah.

55:03 Patrick Hart that that's that's our best hope uh thank you so much patrick for for jumping on the pod i would love to invite you to um to you know like promo anything do you want people to follow you on instagram or website or anything that you would like recommend people check out your work great

55:19 Patrick Hart Sure. I mean, I've been posting on like more game related stuff on Twitter, which is

55:26 Patrick Hart than like a just gone to it like just the right time um just died uh but i'm at tapes club there and uh on instagram i'm underscore underscore underscore h um so just real convenient but it's like i don't know i'm doing more professional stuff elsewhere so uh yeah appreciate

55:45 Patrick Hart sounds great link it so that yeah thanks for having me on a it's my pleasure it's

55:48 Luke F. Walton lot of fun my pleasure thank you for coming um and if anybody wants to check out my stuff uh you can find me at scoobertdoobert.pizza www.scoobertdoobert.pizza be sure to subscribe to the pod rate of five stars all that good stuff so people can find it and hopefully this episode made you love music a little bit more thanks again patrick and until next time we will have our apology video for the robots