A Big Hug To The Year That Was 2025

1:10 What's good, everybody, Happy New Year!Welcome back to love music more. I love that last episode.

1:17 Absolutely incredible talking with one of my favorite mix engineers, Andrew Scheps.So one of the things I love to do every new year is kind of reflect back on the year that came before,and since this is 2025, in review, little recap.

1:35 So we started out the year talking to some absolutely incredible guests, some of my favorite ever,

1:42 and it began with David Baron and Ginger Winn. David, working with some of the biggest artists like Noah Kahan, Lana Del Rey, Lenny Kravitz, and then Ginger Winn, who is incredible artist and songwriter in her own right,that worked with David.

2:00 And it's such a great example, I think, of the apprenticeship that exists in the music business, and I hope that that can continue forever. And there's some cracks in that. It's a little weakening,it's something that I talked with Andrew about, where so much of music is like learning through Osmosis.You can't just pick up a textbook.

2:23 It's a stupid joke, but I say it often of music cannot be taught, it can only be learned, because you really have to be part of it.And the best music curriculum is one that soaks you in it.

2:39 So you're not only like learning thenotes, but you're also understanding the vocabulary, the essence, the means by which to communicate, but also the means by which to do, and the vibe and personality of being in that community.

2:57 And I thought that episode was a great example of it, because David Woodstock lives in Woodstock

3:07 is passing on this kind of wisdom, while Ginger is cultivating her own. She'd been working on musicfor like 10 years. It's incredible, given her age. And that next leg requires a apprenticeship.

3:28 But that apprenticeship is very much like a, you can be part of this, we'll make it together,but it's up to you to take it further. And I like that. It's something that my buddy says often,the cavalry is not coming, but you can get a teacher, but ultimately has to come from within.

3:53 And it can be expressed in a lot of different ways, and that's what I like the next episode,with Nolan Lem, was something that just can't shake. His work is so cool.

4:06 It's about combining research on the nature of auditory signal, signal processing with artand the physical space. I went to a Ryuichi Sakamoto exhibit in Tokyo,

4:25 like maybe a month after recording that episode. And it was fun, because it was an explorationvery similar to what Nolan does, just on a very large scale, because he's so famous, especiallyin Japan, but yellow magic orchestra, if you have not listened to them,

4:42 one of the most impactful artists, I think in electronic music history, up there with Kraftwerk,but in a very different way. And then he went on to do all sorts of incredible orchestral pianoand everything in between works from pop to classical, that was not only explored in thisphysical museum-like space, but also challenged.

5:05 And it was really impactful too, because he recently passed. And so it was almost like an immemorial, but channeled through the signals and the systems.And so I was really thinking about that conversation with Nolan about

5:24 what does it mean to create music or audio or signal? And what does it mean to be living in this worldof sound? Where is the line between art and audio? We're just sound and music. And where can youfind the place that it blurs?

5:43 And it's just such a fascinating question, something that, you know, I'd love to continue to explore, and I hope I can in my music and in my conversations.

5:57 And then Sam, Sam Fischmann, he works for or started co-founded Musik Hack, and he works on

6:09 audio plugins. So such a cool kind of handshake between the audio world of research and the audio worldof doing and creating tools, because it's I think invaluable and also under

6:28 considered or talked about the world of plugin manufacturers, digital audio workstation people,people who make Pro Tools and Logic, and Native Instruments, and the people that make the plugins that go insideof them like the the app store for music. And talking to Sam about the ways that he thinks about it,and I love the connection between the technical but also the very non-technical.

6:53 So he talked a lot about food and cooking and flavor profiles. What an interesting way to combine the world of math

7:03 and science and programming with the world of music. But it's naturally it is numbers.

7:10 You know, most of what happens when you put audio into a computer is you create a

7:19 little snapshot just like a movie. There's a series of pictures that played fast enoughrenders like a movie, a motion picture. Same thing with music, it's just a sample, right? What arethe samples that you're taking?

7:34 It is not the smooth sine wave that exists in natural or acousticspeech, but it's close enough in the same way that you zoom in on a picture and you see the little pixels. Same kind of idea with music. And then you can change each of those pixels.

7:51 You can add,you can subtract, you can multiply, you can do all the stuff that you good with math to every single individual notch of an audio signal.

8:03 And what you can do is you can take one audio signal,run it in and out of a piece of legendary gear like a recording desk or a compressor or an EQ equalization or even a room. You can be in the Taj Mahal and you can run a signal into the Taj Mahal.You can see the way that the Taj Mahal changes that signal.

8:26 And instead of taking that output, you instead take the difference, the delta, and that becomes the function. The thing that you cannow apply to new signals and make it sound as though that signal was recorded in the Taj Mahalor on that recording desk or that classic EQ. What a cool idea, you know?

8:48 What a great application of math for creativity. How do you come up with that idea? How do you take that to the next level?How do you start to stack it like Lego bricks so that it becomes a different beast altogether?And that conversation made me really think about all that kind of stuff. And also as the artist isthe producer, it's like what do I do with that?

9:13 I don't know, there's almost like this thing going back to food, like honoring the ingredients, like honoring where things came from, the soil and thewater and the toil, the sweat.

9:28 And thinking about that about where the tools that I use tomanipulate audio come from, the geniuses, the hard work, the people that really want to make a difference, honoring that, and then also trying to mess with it.

9:46 Like, hey, great, you made a tool, you made a hammer. Could I use it differently? Offalable usage? And that's where it comes back tothe next guest, Serena Sun, who went from Vancouver to London.

10:04 And I loved her kind of story about different musical scenes and taking a risk. She's up and coming, incredible songwriter and singer.

10:18 It's fun to see, it's such a weird industry, right? And so it's fun to see all the ways thateverybody navigates it, and hopefully succeeds within it.

10:29 Because there's a million different ways.And I really think that we have overrated advice from people that have succeeded in an industry that exists largely through chance and circumstance. Not to say luck, I think that's the wrong word.

10:48 It's more to say, what if Serena, for example, was moving to Seattle in the 90s? You know, it's like,oh, good choice. Or some of my guests that I've literally had in previous years of like

11:06 moving into New York City at the right time. The place makes a lot of difference.But at the same time, does it now anymore? Now that we have the internet, I don't know.But a fun thing to explore this year and more conversations. Next up was Kelley Baker,

11:24 uh, filmmaker and audio professional who worked on, you know, some of the biggest movieslike Good Will Hunting by My Own Private Idaho Finding Forrester.

11:37 Kelley's influence really came at theright time for me of somebody that thought about audio and thought about visuals and thought about long form writing novels, a building an unconventional career. And I like his passion.

11:59 I'm worried about the film industry, almost more than the music industry at this point, actually.So I think that the music industry is crappier than the film industry, at least as it stands right now,who knows where it'll go. But Kelley is a good example of a scrappy filmmaker.

12:18 I think the AI revolution, everything is going to be really difficult for filmmakers.And I think that having voices like Kelley is really important. And I hope that people listen.

12:29 And also, I think he shows one of the other unexpected ways that you can go with a music career of

12:38 thinking about audio going back to Nolan as a medium that combines and works with the music.

12:49 Like what is a sound designer? And how does everything about the dialogue to the

12:58 fully like the leaves cracking as the actors walk down a leafy path to the noise of the city behindthem to the lack thereof? How does that all contribute to the emotional punch of a movie?I also have the pleasure of chatting with Hendrick Valera born in Venezuela made his way to Argentina,US, then over to Colombia.

13:21 And I love the different journeys that bring out different types of music. And talking about the musical genres and cultures and styles and sub styles and undergroundscenes, love the impact also that producers and mixers can make in these scenes because there can bea lot of people that are great at record like just playing, but you need somebody that's great at

13:47 putting it on wax and getting it out there so that the rest of the world can listen. And Hendrick is

13:56 yeah, just doing it. And I've been discovering so much cool music from just like listening to hismixes and be like, wow, what a cool groove. And it's so important to have somebody that's not justcapturing it, but also understands how to like position it, make it legible, and doesn't stand inthe way of new genre.

14:16 That's a really tricky thing for mix engineers because they can have their own egos too. And they can be like, this is the way music's supposed to sound. And while that's goodto some degree, it's also really important as a mixer, as a producer, to get out of the way of theartist sometimes when they're making a bold choice, you know, go with them rather than push against them.

14:37 And then also chatted with Fernando Perdomo, who played everywhere from Abbey Road to Laurel Canyon.Just an absolute session musician showed such cool guitars on the pod,he's got just such a hell of a collection was walking me through some of them.

14:55 And I love talkingabout the road and what it's actually like in all of the strange ways that you can build a career, movies and music movies, and the left turns that it can take on that path. And Fernando is just atotal players player. And there's a reason also why he gets gigs.

15:18 I feel like you can tell the personalities of these super successful studio and side people artists is that they're able toelevate a musical situation and elevate the vibe.

15:33 And then I talked with David from Mixbus TV, Platinum Mix Engineer, and just an absolute rock star on YouTube and socials because hehe really does, you can tell that he cares about teaching.

15:48 And I think that'sa through line from the entire year and something that I'm trying to find more in my life and in my kind of practice of music is how do you structure your life so that it's notso much about you and you're giving back and you're teaching and you're instructing and you'rethat sort of this part of the reason I started the podcast is like I want to share

16:15 some shortcuts so you don't have to take as long as I did because other people did the same thingfor me, right? And I already took a long path and I'm still on that path very much sobut trying to find success in the industry but what is success in the industry,all these conversations.

16:28 And that's part of what a the reason why I think a podcast works so well about music and music community and building a career is that it is not is the least linear careerprobably imaginable and the least easy to define in terms of success. Like obviously everybody wantsto make money, but like that's boring. That's the boring definition of success in music.

16:49 And also maybe the most rare. But I think David does a really good job of explaining kind ofthe way he thinks, the way he does it, the way he cooks in the studio.

17:03 And then Russ Flynn, X Ambassadors talked about what it's really like to be on the biggest stages.

17:11 I've done some big tours and stuff but I haven't done that level, like a real big world tour.And you know, private plane. I don't know, kind of said it's so cool, but like what is it?What does it really look like? What's it really feel like? How is it

17:29 like being a professional athlete? Like not just the sacrifices that you have to make, butit's different than like if you're in Led Zeppelin on a world tour, you're in Led Zeppelin.If you're a hired gun on a world tour, it's a little different. You're a hired side person.

17:47 Because you can get fired at any time. You're not quite the party lifestyle. You're really there as a pro.And you got there because you were a pro. And it's an endurance sport.

18:01 Same deal when I was talking with Noam Wallenberg. He works with people like Vulfpeck, Anderson .Paak, Mac Miller because he exudes comfortable but is consumative professional.

18:23 Without having the scientific like classic recording studio of everything has to be perfect intextbook. He does not believe in that at all. And that's really refreshing. Like one of the thingsthat I talked about and it just can't get out of my head is mismatched drum overheads.

18:38 Microphone companies make a lot of money selling you specifically scientifically matched pairedmicrophones. So they sound exactly the same. So you're not having to make all of these changesin the mix to make them feel like the left and the right channel that you put above the drum kitoverhead microphones. So they sound the same.

19:00 Noam was saying it can be really cool if you pick completely different microphones which actually makes a lot of sense. So like one of the biggestfrustrations is you have to do very similar microphones like think two very similar cameras ifyou're editing a video or something like that.

19:15 And but one of them's green and one of them's yellow and you're like God, I'm having to do all this work for color processing to get the two camerasto look the same. But if you intentionally were like, okay, I'm filming on a super eight andan iMacs camera. They're going to be completely different vibes.

19:34 But because they're different vibes, they're so far apart, you can do some interesting stuff with it. And the audience isgoing to be like, oh, okay, yeah, flipping between those two cameras is not supposed to be seamless.Same kind of idea with drum overheads.

19:48 If you had two very different things, you could blend themin interesting ways, you could pan them in different interesting ways, or you could even have one pop in for the versus another one pop in for the choruses. So it's like two mono microphones.You can do all sorts of stuff, but it's almost like forcing yourself into uncomfortable situations.

20:07 And I love that as an artist, producer, mixer is like, how can you make how can you force yourselfout of the expected workflows? Do that as much as you possibly can because then you're going to findsome interesting stuff. Especially if you've like kind of figured out what your sound is and what you'redoing. It's a perfect time to take a weird little left turn.

20:28 Especially if it's just like as simple as throwing a different microphone up. Because then you're not necessarily having to be like

20:35 some of the examples of like playing a really crappy drum throne or stand up and play drums oryou know, play guitar with all the lights off. Like those are all like fun techniques. I take ashot at tequila and a slap across the face. Or you can just record a little bit differently.

20:53 And it's still you. It's just through a slightly different lens. Then I chatted with Sam Moses,incredible mastering engineer. And there's a reason why I was four billion plus streams.

21:08 I really like talking with both mastering engineers and mix engineers because they have verydifferent takes.

21:14 And Andrew Scheps' last week was a very good example of that where he does notleave a lot of room for his mastering engineers, his own words.And I find that really interesting, especially when you're talking about somebody like Sam because I think he is coming at the problem of a mix and its many locations that the mix will

21:37 be heard in a slightly different way than a mix engineer. Not hating on Scheps by any means.I'm just saying I understand where my limitations are. They're a lot lower than whereAndrew Scheps' limitations are.

21:50 And so having somebody like Sam is very valuable for me becauseI recognize I do kind of need somebody to finish the mix in the respect of knowing what it's going to sound like in a lot of different places that I might not have anticipated and doing thatkind of homework.

22:04 Because I'm focused on the homework of like how do I make something so interesting and cool or evocative. I'm not as interested personally in the science of like,okay, how is it served on radio versus Spotify versus Apple music, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.That's what Sam Moses was all about. Like he's doing the work.

22:25 He's checking all the meters of what does it sound like when I uploaded to Spotify in this way or that way or that way.

22:32 Really valuable. And then I talked to Harley Flanagan. I went to one of his concerts. That was crazy.

22:41 Multiple people got thrown out. But he was so loving on stage. It was incredible how

22:46 after those few, you know, while people got thrown out, which is part of the show, I think,part of the fun. It really felt like you're at a hardcore show. After that, though, he wastalking about it on stage about like what it means to be where he's at and how unlikely it wouldbe for him to be this age because of the life that he led the childhood that was forced upon him.

23:14 And how brutal it all was, but how music got him through and how music can get other peoplethrough. You play it or don't. It doesn't matter. It's about community and communication andemotion. And I think coming from him, it really hits because he lived it. He cares.

23:38 And I felt he was honest. He has not led a life without regret. He has not led a life withoutpain and suffering. And through all of it, music has helped him find the path and find the way forward

23:58 through ups and downs and become a really beautiful person. It's great to talk to him,great to get to know him, great to see him live and talk to him there. It was a really, it was asurprising episode. Then I definitely recommend listening to it along with all the others if youmiss any of these. Then Mo Lowda & the Humble.

24:22 That was a unique challenge because I'm talking to the whole band, you know, four piece band all at once. But really cool example of how

24:39 the band is like a multi-headed beast, but also putting yourself in interesting recording situationslike I was talking with Noam, is that you can get different things out of yourself.

24:55 If you're recording in different places, you're doing things differently, especially if you'vebeen doing it for a while, that's one of the best levers to pull of, let's do this in a few differentstudios, let's do this on the road, let's do this just differently. And also like some of theconversations we had there of guilty pleasures.

25:15 And I think that the band learns some things about each other during the podcast that they had never heard before. After that was Mike Ladman,one of my favorite people in the entire music industry. And yeah, you can see why he's a greatdude. Love's music so deeply.

25:33 And in so many different levels, he makes music, which I think is super rare for a lot of kind of that side of the industry like sync. And he makes it deeply,deeply cares and has been doing it his whole life. He gets it. He gets what it takes to make a songand he gets what it takes to make a commercial and he pulls it all together.

25:57 So, so rare to see how music can drive things commercially without being just about the commercial.

26:11 Narrow path that that's the reason why he's won so many awards. He deserves it. And his agencydeserves it. It's really special. And people like Mike are going to be the people that we look backon in 20, 30 years and say, oh, that's why music of this time sounded cool.

26:32 It's like that agency work is what drives the economics of this whole thing at this point. And a lot of them don't havegreat taste. Mike has great taste. Thank God we have somebody.

26:48 He's not the only one, but he's the best. Let's be real. And then I talked with Josh Plotner who plays everything, like literallyevery instrument, you know, anime stuff like Naruto and Avatar and live on Broadway and

27:11 Meghan Trainor, Marvelous Mrs. Maisel, always hard to say. And I loved the idea of like you canbe a jack of all trades and a master of all trades.

27:23 But as long as you identify what are thethrough lines, like there is a music in and of itself that can flow through to different instruments.

27:34 That's one of the things I've been trying to cultivate over my past, however manyyears, of like how do you use an instrument to get towards music as an instrument by which to reach a thing. And then from that thing comes to the instrument. And Josh does it better than I do.

27:54 He's got so many. And then going to Kyle Pulley, really fascinating about, you know, just making a studio.But it really takes, you know, headroom studios is just a killer integral part of the Philadelphia

28:14 music scene. And he got the whole thing ripped out from under him. He was evicted. Maybe I don'tknow if that one was named headroom studios, but where he's at now is a lot more stable. But beforethen, you know, he literally, he saw these guys and clipboards show up and he goes, oh,

28:33 there goes the studio. That's part of the journey, right? Of just the creative, our underworld,

28:43 the ways that people have to live and survive in this industry is really incredible.And they do it for the love of music. And some, some like Kyle are able to pull it out and pullit through and make something great out of it and better out of it. But it's precarious.Really it's.

29:06 And then John Michael Rouchell, we talked about, gosh, New Orleans and Disneyland. And what it's like to really, I don't know, try to, try to be honest

29:22 about the music that you come from and then push it in different ways and unexpected ways andcombine it. But John, like one of the things that I thought he brought to the table andbrings to everything he does musically, because I check out all his stuff on socials and stuff,he's just so such sunshine. He really is. And he's, he loves it. You can feel it off of him.

29:46 And it makes you love it more. And that's the whole point of the podcast. That's why we named it,what we named it is. People that give you energy rather than take energy from you,not these vampires that we all have all over our lives. And sometimes we are too.You know, I'm not perfect.

30:02 I've definitely come into rooms where I take energy rather to give energy. And I think John is a good example and a good reminder, not to be that way,

30:11 as much as you humanly possibly can because we're humans. I'm sure that John's had some bad days.But I've never seen one. And then Harry plays still woozy Maggie Rogers.

30:27 He's about to go on the road with Magic City hippies just saw that announcement.

30:33 Apparently he's super tall. I'm a tall guy, but I didn't, he's like seven foot tall or something.

30:39 I got to meet him in real life now. So we can go back to back and compare. But he,

30:45 he's played a Red Rocks, man like he's so good at not just drums, but at holding a band together andgetting, being a musician in that role. And I think that's really special.

30:59 And that's athroughline too of the drummers that really work and get paid and can come in for these huge subbing roles like Magic City hippies. How did he, how did he do that? It's because people believe inhim. People trust him and with deservedly so because he's legit. And he's fun. And he's a good vibe.

31:26 Speaking of a good vibe, ABI the producer was up next from Safari Pedals and that Safari Pedals show. She takes the Safari Pedals mindset very seriously and mirrors it because she brings guitarpedal driven approaches to her production, both in the box and out of the box.

31:51 And I think you can tell that there she has that energy of a producer to watch out for because she's

32:01 she's a hard worker and she's innovative and wants the best for the music. And I think that allthose things are so critical. It's like a weird combination that is required, especially when you'rekind of on the up of technically sound emotionally chill and inviting.

32:23 So the artists are making their best work. And then also innovative and destructive to be constructive of not saying,hey, I need the $10,000 box. I need the $150 plug in or a $150 guitar pedal. I'm going to run itinto that. We're going to do it in a way that we cannot do again because guitar pedals are chaos.

32:49 And injecting the right amount of chaos into the digital world is wonderful. And then I hadTristan come on.

33:00 Tristan is just like he works on film and TV scores in addition to having like toured and just been around the world.

33:13 His his work, especially when he was talking about some of the like scenes that stuck within the most in that podcast helps. I don't know. It makes you think about

33:31 how he is co-acting with someone like Martin Freeman in a car. It's like so Martin Freeman'sin a car solo dealing emotionally with the scene. So it's just Martin Freeman, the camera,and the movie score. So the co-star is the movie score. And you don't want to mess it up.

33:54 You don't want to do too much. You don't want to do too little and finding that balance is such an interesting.And it's the same thing with production. It's like really intimate work, say a great singer.

34:08 You don't want to do too little. You don't want to do too much. You want to find that right balancewhere it feels done. It feels mixed. Talking with Andrew Scheps about that last week about Adele.

34:19 It's like, how do you strike that balance? And I think he undersold himself of like,I didn't do very much. It's like, come on. Those five EQs that you did probably really did their work

34:32 because it's so easy if something sounds good to do too little. But if you do too little,then why did they even hire you? What are you even doing? And sometimes I think that and I hearthis in recordings. You can have a great vocalist or in this case a great actor. And they're notsupported enough because they're great.

34:50 But you want to give them the same amount of support that you would give even a bad actor or a bad singer or a raw. Maybe I should say raw because

35:03 that's what they deserve. They deserve to have the same amount of support, but you don't want toovershadow. Tough, tough challenge, always. Almost harder than something that is more like

35:16 character raw. And then I talked to Dr. Guy, PhD in Bach, and just a music theory genius,

35:28 broke out the piano and showed me a bunch of different progressions. It was wonderful.

35:32 And I think it's so fun to see music theory come alive in the way that he did it and in the waythat my next guest, Levi, did it and I'll combine the two of them for this because

35:47 music theory is a subject that a lot of people avoid because it's hard or it's stuffy.And I think both of them come out in a really fun way. In a way that I think can show youalternate paths to take.

36:02 That's my favorite usage of music theory is not which path I should take, but which path I could take. Where are the left turns and alleyways? I didn't even know existed

36:17 that my ear didn't even say, hey, you could go that way. Music theory helps you open those doors.

36:24 And it's one of the best kind of bag of tricks, like Felix, to reach into when you don't know where togo next. And then I talked with Cal.

36:37 Cal really talks about being on the road as an endurance sport. And I really appreciate that because it's not as glamorous as it sometimes seems.

36:54 This is something to talk with Scheps about as well. Sorry to keep bringing that up,but that was such a cool conversation. I loved it about how musicians sometimes don't get paidbecause they're having so much fun. And touring is a good example of, hey, it's really fun,but it's brutal.

37:15 Have you ever done a trip traveling where you're going from city to city every other day? Like that alone, even if you're on a trip just having a vacation where you setyour own pace and you're eating whatever food you want, whenever you want, even that is hard.

37:32 Now imagine doing that and you're working and you don't get to pick what food and you don't getto pick when you travel, you don't get to pick where you stay, you might just be sleeping in the vanthe entire time. And you have to go on stage and give the best show of your life.

37:44 Not to say that that's the hardest thing in the world, but it is not easy. And it is an endurancesport because you need to not get sick. You need to not fall apart. And it's so easy to fallapart, especially for people that take it like a party because that's the popular identityof what touring looks like.

38:00 And it might be different if you're in a super, super successful band and you say I'm only going to play one or two shows a week, but most of the time that is not like 99.9percent of the time is like you're playing three or four shows a week otherwise why are we on theroad? It just it costs so much money for hotels and gas and the whole crew.

38:22 You need to keep playing so you can keep money coming in. And so you are just right on the edge of what your body is capableof doing.

38:31 Your wrist hurt, your throat hurts from singing, your back hurts from holding up a heavy guitar. It is what it is.

38:43 And then flipping around Rani who just brought in just such happy energized energy, love seeing all of her videos for her band postergirl come up onto my feed becausejust so cool and so good. And she's another person. It's just like how can you not believe in her?

39:06 Incredible bassist, incredible musician, an incredible self belief that's infectious. And then Ispoke with Ashlee who works at Epidemic Sound is a producer, mix engineer, and her path I thinkis another good example of like the different ways that you can make it in music.

39:31 It doesn't necessarily have to just be your big artist, big producer. You can be a combination of things and you can also findwork. It's like an account executive. You can be within music through a more traditional corporatetitle, but not in a traditional corporate job.

39:51 And you can bring value to all these artists and creators that she's helping to sell their work and get them money. And that's really valuable too.

40:02 While at the same time doing her own mix engineering and production, it isn't one or the other andit can always those paths can go that way and then come back. They can be winding.And I think that's where the kind of year ends for me is that all of it.

40:23 All of it can go in every direction. That's part of the reason why I ended the whole year withcounterpoint. Counterpoint of the melody goes one direction. The bass can go the other.

40:34 It can be different melodies interlocking and intertwining. It's a dance between all of thesethings. It can be a dance in your own personal life. Where are we going? What are we trying toaccomplish? That can change on a day-to-day basis. But the love of music can be that rallying,

40:53 unifying force. I hope you enjoyed this podcast. I hope you enjoy this upcoming year,2026. We're going to have fun with it. A lot of incredible guests.

41:05 If you enjoyed this, first of all, I think you should go check out the podcasts that you missedlast year because some just awesome ones. You can listen to my solo ones if you want to, but like,you know, the guests. That's what it's really all about. And please rate the show five star,share it with your friends. Check out my music at scoobertdoobert.pizza. We'll see you next week.