An Interview with Mike Ladman

2:36 Luke F. Walton What's good, everybody? Welcome back to Love Music More. I am Scoobert Doobert and I am joined with Mike Ladman. What's up, man?

2:43 Mike Ladman Hey, man, how you doing?

2:44 Luke F. Walton Oh, good. I'm really good. Thanks so much for joining the show. I'm really excited to talk about your entire musical journey,

2:49 Mike Ladman Super

2:49 Luke F. Walton dude.

2:50 Mike Ladman excited to be here.

2:51 Luke F. Walton Yes.

2:51 Mike Ladman You are a part of it. So it's like a very funny, very 360 circle to come back and chat about.

2:58 Luke F. Walton A hundred percent. Yeah. So for those of you that might not know, we've collaborated, we've made music together, we've had a placement together. Mike is, has been a very instrumental and

3:09 Luke F. Walton Just great character throughout my musical career and I hope a little bit in yours as well. I'd love for you to tell the listeners a little bit about kind of what your day job is and then also what you're doing in your nights with your sessions and your music career on top of that.

3:23 Mike Ladman So

3:23 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

3:23 Mike Ladman I grew up guitarist playing in bands, super nerdy in high school listening to prog rock and I only every thought from fifth grade on that I was going to set out the guard like the only

3:35 Mike Ladman destination or finish line was being a rock star uh band broke up i'm from jersey so i ended up going to delaware worked in a record store basically lived there freshman year until they hired me sophomore year and then i did 30 40 hours in a record store lost but that's where my music encyclopedia kind of grew and i went from being prog rock nerd and beatles nerd to funk soul ambient electronic just everything you

4:03 Luke F. Walton Did

4:03 Mike Ladman know

4:03 Luke F. Walton you have a mentor? a mentor at the record store that was like telling you like hey listen to this listen to that to expand your mind like how did you open up to all of these genres or was it just access was that the necessary

4:13 Mike Ladman it was right everything it was like i think i'm a perfectionist so whatever i do i want to be like the best at whatever that thing is so if i'm a fan of a band i want to be like the biggest best fan whether that was dream theater or iron maiden you know real big fish the band that made me want to play guitar and fifth

4:30 Mike Ladman fifth grade when i heard a guitar solo and the song beer like whatever it was and when i was not done shredding but i think open to more i had a year with my guitar teacher just analyzing beatles chords progressions and i think that was the catalyst that then i was like i didn't just have to listen to guitar

4:47 Mike Ladman so that was in high school and i got into the kinks and beach boys and all these other things so yeah

4:52 Luke F. Walton You're a huge Kinks fan.

4:53 Mike Ladman 64 to 71 like face to face to like muzzle elbow like lily kind of loses me but there's still some good moments there but all that uh it's just as good as like the beatles when people just think of just lola or you really got me and there's so much more in their melodies and it's just awesome oh

5:10 Luke F. Walton 100 I'm listening more because of that session we did you're pulling up all the references and like yeah I'm obsessed it's really good man it's

5:17 Mike Ladman it's

5:17 Luke F. Walton great yes

5:18 Mike Ladman so good it's so british too it is so british all the things anyway so yeah i think being in the record store

5:25 Mike Ladman everyone in there was playing different stuff there was a girl who liked soul like one guy was kind of into emo the owner loved the kinks that's kind of how i got the job is because the freshman year at the time they were putting out all these deluxe reissues that would have 30 b-sides you know a triple version triple lp of village green that had you know all this extra stuff so i was special ordering all these things and he was a kinks fan and he loved like the replacements and so just being there there was

5:54 Mike Ladman there was we'd get we'd just get cds in and just let's hear what the new thing is that's where i got into numero group and like neadic uh warp records and you know idm uh i remember it was a used store so he would buy back stuff from people they're just gold was kind of the only thing on the cd packaging and he just

6:14 Mike Ladman took it out and said here it's out of print take it and i put it on i was like never heard anything like it and it was all tekra try repetit i didn't really say the album it was wild and then you know i went deep down electronica thing so that

6:26 Luke F. Walton Cool.

6:26 Mike Ladman and i was also part of oink if you know what oink was it was this illegal torrent site where

6:33 Luke F. Walton Okay.

6:34 Mike Ladman that guy on like sophomore year of floor he was like super good at the internet he

6:38 Luke F. Walton Yeah, right.

6:39 Mike Ladman could always find stuff yes

6:41 Luke F. Walton Okay.

6:41 Mike Ladman just be ahead of stuff in that way

6:43 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

6:43 Mike Ladman and so is this invite only private illegal torrent site you

6:47 Luke F. Walton Okay. Keep it

6:48 Mike Ladman know

6:48 Luke F. Walton secret.

6:48 Mike Ladman hamster napster and all that and everything had to be uploaded meticulously it was like there was one version of you know whatever the album was one of you to all all different qualities if anything was felt wrong people would freak out and when a lot of the big leaks were happening one was it's a graduated college oh nine so like in that like

7:08 Mike Ladman you know 05 to 09s on everything with leak on oink and that's where i heard you know i watched merryweather post pavilion by animal collective be leaked midnight of new year's eve that year i had the spoon album before it was announced like all these crazy things and

7:26 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

7:26 Mike Ladman so it was also like a download this is super way too much but it was like a download like a leeching thing you know you couldn't download more than you gave i was on campus wi-fi so i had crazy internet when that was like not a given so i'd leave my laptop open and essentially would have unlimited access to music even

7:45 Luke F. Walton Wow.

7:45 Mike Ladman more than the record store i was like oh tom waits i like rain dogs that was played in the record so let me get his whole discography you know i heard kind of blue let me get every single miles davis every john coltrane every i'll just go through and get all this and load it up on an ipod and then bring it into the record store and listen in 30, 40 hours a

8:03 Luke F. Walton Dude,

8:04 Mike Ladman week

8:04 Luke F. Walton what's

8:04 Mike Ladman to just everything.

8:05 Luke F. Walton kind of crazy is I almost feel like that was a weird sweet spot for music discovery where, like, I... dove deeper actually like now i collect a lot of music like a lot of like this is their best three songs or whatever but back then yeah you download the entire discography and just binge the whole thing yeah

8:22 Mike Ladman yeah i want to just go through all of that and it's it sounds strange now but this was you know way before spotify or anything it's sort of i feel like if you read like malcolm gladwell's outliers that was like my little moment went for a music supervision where I had access that no one like most people didn't have you

8:42 Luke F. Walton I hear you.

8:43 Mike Ladman know there's like four computers and like he happened to work at one and love this thing I'm on campus with like not a fake major but I have a lot of time and we're right next door and like could just listen to everything and

8:54 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

8:55 Mike Ladman wanted to as much as I could and so from there and just being a sponge in that way my stepsister's an art director and and told me about advertising so she said you know why don't you do this and i like being creative i like the idea of just you know kind of dressed chill in the office drinking

9:12 Luke F. Walton Mm-hmm.

9:12 Mike Ladman you know it seemed like a fun job if i had to be an adult and

9:16 Luke F. Walton Yes.

9:17 Mike Ladman so i applied to be a copywriter it's a great interview i had zero book no right to be a copywriter like what they saw my email is jhendrix at udell i worked at a record store i played guitar like why don't you do this this work with our music producer and pick and produce music for tv commercials like that that's a job someone gets money to do that this

9:35 Luke F. Walton Yeah,

9:36 Mike Ladman is right when apple's really popping off it's like feist is in there the dodos had a spot and like a commercial the unicorns and animal collective were in crayola and i was like all these music i loved down ads even though if montreal had gotten like thrown a lot of shade for an outback commercial and kevin barnes was like from montreal i was like this is like the only time i've ever made money

9:59 Luke F. Walton I

9:59 Mike Ladman in

9:59 Luke F. Walton know,

9:59 Mike Ladman 20

9:59 Luke F. Walton exactly.

9:59 Mike Ladman years of doing this and i'm just putting all that money right back into the show you know and so it really changed then and at the time that was also indie music all those pitchfork bands were cheap so i just got thrown in and so i did about seven years working at mccann ericsson which may be familiar from mad men don draper was there you know it was the first agency to have a music department and then as of this month

10:23 Mike Ladman i've been at Droga5 for nine years so i left to start the department at this agency which is probably the most awarded revered i'm very lucky i get it's like one of them it's like probably this and another shop wide and kennedy are like probably the two most creative spots so uh mccann i cut my teeth and then here is where i've really been able to flourish and use all the weird music that i love is kind of what they they look for so

10:47 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

10:47 Mike Ladman i get to do a lot of fun interesting things which is not always a given for any music supervisor but particularly in advertising i get to work with music artists that i love and hopefully make things that people just am at and want to be a fan of and not just i see commercials when most people do is

11:05 Luke F. Walton Mm-hmm.

11:05 Mike Ladman at my parents house when i go home and i'm

11:07 Luke F. Walton Mm-hmm.

11:07 Mike Ladman like oh my god so many of these things are terrible like how is like just even from like the visual production which is not my world just looks like and then you know forget you know my ukuleles or whatever is on there i'm lucky where like usually the number one thing is our briefs is we don't want to sound like an ad

11:24 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

11:24 Mike Ladman but we actually work to make sure that we really don't look or sound like it and every now and then you know not everything's some crazy award-winning cool thing but uh

11:32 Luke F. Walton Well, I guarantee you that everybody watching has seen ads that you've worked on from Super Bowl, all the major events, international campaigns.

11:41 Luke F. Walton i would like to double tap and dive a little bit deeper into what it looks like on a day-to-day basis like what is the process actually like do you you receive these briefs what are these briefs like how what what is what is the job even because it seems like it's kind of sometimes looks like a black box to musicians on the other side see like kevin barnes like hey this is this is my way to make money but i don't even know what actually is going on in the room yeah

12:07 Mike Ladman Yeah, so it's interesting how it's changed quite a bit and maybe I should I guess to break it down

12:11 Luke F. Walton Sure.

12:11 Mike Ladman to what, you know, my thing is. So I work in-house at an ad agency, which is there's not only big agencies have in-house music supervisors. So for all the other ad agencies, they go to third parties, vendors like there's third party music supervision companies that they just do that.

12:28 Mike Ladman There's also a lot of music houses, which is what people would think of as a jingle house, which is really there's a producers and some have in-house a lot of really.

12:38 Mike Ladman more heavily based in freelance composers the master say hey we need a song that starts piano and then flips to you know an african beat it has a climax of 20 seconds and so we'll work with those music houses for that and a lot of those guys are just straight up composers or they'll tap into a lot of indie artists more

12:57 Luke F. Walton Mm-hmm.

12:58 Mike Ladman and more i work with artists and labels and have them score for us so my job within the agency is you know we're have chased and a bunch of big brands that we do all their work for the most part so all their tv commercials they come to us for the agency of record we do you know the concepting the strategy hey we're putting out a new sapphire car and you need to do a campaign and

13:20 Mike Ladman they ideate can come to me uh and we would put them out so production everything's in-house where i'm at it comes in various stages pending the project the producer the creatives on it so sometimes it could be a creative trying to sell through a campaign for a client to buy and it just happened now where there's going to be enough company campaign where it's going to be all music driven meaning there's no voiceover a lot of ads have a lot of voice

13:49 Mike Ladman voice over people yelling at you to buy or it's a character's story and there's a whole story and music's just supporting it all obviously the spots that we all know and love we think of good music commercials is

14:00 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

14:00 Mike Ladman when it's good music is telling a story apple

14:03 Luke F. Walton Like you brought up the Apple commercials. Like doing.

14:05 Mike Ladman just you know there's always like so many friends over there that are so great and i feel like it's always my whole career me versus apple you know uh whether they know it or not i

14:16 Luke F. Walton That's

14:16 Mike Ladman think now they're

14:16 Luke F. Walton a good rivalry.

14:16 Mike Ladman pretty pretty to me at the award shows usually like you know me and Droga5 and mara works with me and apple are kind of always duking it out but

14:23 Mike Ladman you know when i wasn't fortunate to work on the cool stuff where i had a shock to even do that you know so like i want to do cool stuff but i so it comes to us in different ways it could be a creative hey we have a spot we need something about songs about going home or coming together are kind of common themes that can happen in advertising uh you can imagine for a bank or selling stuff songs about wanting more and things like that so sometimes i'll have it could be a story

14:54 Mike Ladman his cow for a pair of Levi's 501s or it could be you know pandemic where they're like we just need a powerful song that could kind of bring people together hope and all that sort of thing and so based off the budget and the timeline then I'll kind of work with my producer we'll figure out what's the best approach do we want to license a popular song indie song or are we going to create a song with a music house or are we going to have an artist create a song for us so it kind of

15:23 Mike Ladman Based on all of that is how those briefs will come in and any time I've always found the most success or I just anytime there's a brief or a board or a rough cut or animatic. I always give them what they want and just whatever excites me, whatever

15:41 Luke F. Walton Okay.

15:41 Mike Ladman I think is good. And a lot of times people don't know what they want, which is fine. It's

15:46 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

15:46 Mike Ladman tough to like their expertise on the visual story to figure out what that sound is they might not know. And they're so trained because most places don't have enough supervisors to always write a music brief,

15:57 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

15:57 Mike Ladman which is often filled with empty adjectives just because they need to have something. but don't know i believe that no one is mad at a good idea unless his ego gets in the way no

16:08 Luke F. Walton Mm-hmm.

16:08 Mike Ladman one's mad at a good idea so if you think you want this you know unless you spend all day every day listening to music and diving deep that might be all you know but there might be some cooler direction or genre, a little bit less familiar, which could make it more exciting. So it's like, here's what you want.

16:26 Mike Ladman Here's what I think is even better and, you know, trying to balance those two to figure out what works and what doesn't work. And I think a music supervisor's job is to make sure that the best.

16:36 Mike Ladman music gets on air safely and that has evolved because there are a lot of egos in the creative world and depending on who you ask the definition of you know the supervisor the track has to come from me it has to be something i pitched

16:50 Mike Ladman i've had a spot where an account director pulled a great track i was like that track is awesome and i'll work for two months to try to beat it maybe but if that's the best track cool like as long as that goes out there i still have to clear it and do my due diligence to try to beat it or prove that that is the best if i Yes.

17:06 Mike Ladman think it is the best and safely meaning that we have all the rights and paperwork signed for you know negotiate everything to make sure everything's buttoned up on the back end to go to air safely

17:17 Luke F. Walton Yes. And I feel like that undersells how difficult that can be, especially because I know that you have such a great expertise like we were talking about the record store, crate digging and licensing tracks that might be in somebody's like state or you're trying to track down like who is the actual writer or original performer of this song? How can we pay them? Like, where does this go?

17:39 Luke F. Walton What does what does that due diligence look like? Do you have like a research team or are you just scouring the Internet? Like, how do you go about? About paying people, basically.

17:46 Mike Ladman yeah it's so it's funny it's so hard to give people money it's like i feel something and i say way too much especially musicians where it's like in song lyrics it's so hard to give people money whether that's labels there's a spot that took like two years for us to give someone money where it was the deal was done like no well you can't pay us through it's like take take money um and so there was there's a different project

18:10 Mike Ladman where there's someone driving around Poland to get... these surviving members of this Polish punk punk band to get all the members and surviving you know family of those members to sign and agree to this license for us for a Levi's Grammy spot so it is it is a lot of research believe it or not I mean as our thing happened was through

18:34 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

18:35 Mike Ladman DMS

18:36 Luke F. Walton Yes.

18:36 Mike Ladman there was so yeah so ours was I have this playlist I started right three and a half years ago or so now of

18:44 Mike Ladman A growing playlist. So the start is 10 songs. Every week I add 10 songs on top, all under a million streams at the time I add it. Every week that 10 songs is male, female, English, not English, new and old is kind of has to be in that 10 songs every week. I don't even know where I found your song, but I think

19:04 Luke F. Walton I

19:04 Mike Ladman I track

19:04 Luke F. Walton love your

19:05 Mike Ladman back.

19:05 Luke F. Walton playlist, by the way. I discover references all the time through it. So it's a great resource. We'll put that in the show notes too so people can. people can listen because you have fantastic

19:13 Mike Ladman it's

19:13 Luke F. Walton taste obviously

19:13 Mike Ladman so fun because it's talk about a black box it's like you know six hours a week of going through roughly four to six hundred tracks and like spotify doesn't even stat so i do it it's good it's we were talking about answering briefs it's how you put in the reps of listening to music because you know whether you're creating music or even a supervisor you can go a long time without actually listening for

19:37 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

19:37 Mike Ladman music and the way to discover music is to listen to a lot of music and you get caught up on jobs and all this stuff and you go to meet and people what are they listening to like i haven't really listened to music in a minute

19:47 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

19:47 Mike Ladman it's a way to be accountable every week so i think all these searches are i think i've found a niche of being good and quick because i listen to a lot and i file everything in playlists for all different things but like answering briefs like it's done You know, the work is done before the brief ideally,

20:05 Luke F. Walton Yes.

20:05 Mike Ladman you know putting all the reps in before if you have to send out a search Every time you get a brief it's gonna take you forever usually on any call I'm coming with like three to five tracks with that briefed on the spot my girlfriend would say maybe I'm on the spectrum because of that kind of knowledge and recall

20:20 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

20:21 Mike Ladman set list music and menus and food, you know I come feeling nostalgic. Now chicken 90s track, can you put on the

20:33 Luke F. Walton Got

20:33 Mike Ladman corny

20:33 Luke F. Walton some big news everybody my vinyl record is out We didn't make a ton of these so these guys are gonna sell out and I'd love for you to get your hands on one of them because they're so dope and it comes with a whole bunch of like liner notes and pictures and you know special stuff the things that really went into making this record and I want you to get your hands on it so go to scoobertdoobert.pizza or check out my Instagram for a link or click the link in the show notes or the

20:59 Luke F. Walton to the buy or wherever you're watching this to pick up your copy you know they're going to sell out we really did not make very many of these and i want you to have it it's it's like a collector's item so thank you thank you for supporting my music and i can't wait for you to hear it actually on physical vinyl enjoy the rest of the episode

21:16 Mike Ladman i just locked

21:17 Luke F. Walton dialed

21:17 Mike Ladman in people

21:18 Luke F. Walton in yeah

21:18 Mike Ladman themes and other things i don't know but like you know i can recall tracks artists facts and things i've eaten and you know courses and food so

21:27 Luke F. Walton we had a great city

21:28 Mike Ladman it's for really

21:28 Luke F. Walton that yeah

21:28 Mike Ladman a set list of you know basic

21:30 Luke F. Walton that list of food

21:31 Mike Ladman so for finding that stuff happened to me if i saw your track couldn't imagine feeling better than i do right now which you think about an ad it had so it got a lot of love a lot of times it was almost an all-state thing i don't think i reached out out to

21:43 Luke F. Walton Uh,

21:43 Mike Ladman you but uh

21:43 Luke F. Walton I would have been psyched.

21:44 Mike Ladman to have been into tanzureco and then the client whatever you know i think wanted something known but um that lyric is great for my world

21:52 Luke F. Walton Sweet.

21:53 Mike Ladman for so many different things

21:54 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

21:54 Mike Ladman uh chase bank i think was close we ended up getting in a chorus spot but i didn't know who repped you so i just went straight to the dm's like hey and it's kind of

22:04 Luke F. Walton It's

22:04 Mike Ladman a funny thing

22:05 Luke F. Walton a good

22:05 Mike Ladman i

22:05 Luke F. Walton day.

22:05 Mike Ladman always i always try to give an email so people don't think i'm spam and it's i guess instagram they can see like this is what i do it's not one of those spam accounts so like hey you know music supervisor interested in track you have the rights and we kind of go there there was one crazy one i did for equinox where i couldn't it was someone had been sampled they had been it had been licensed i reached out to that supervisor

22:27 Mike Ladman revised like i just did these people like well one is it getting back i couldn't get back for one uh and then there's for the sample and it's also funny because labels and publishers don't even always always know what they've had i i found there was one thing i licensed for a social media client where they're like yeah we have 100 like you have 100 of both sides like yeah like well what about the sample what sample

22:50 Mike Ladman what do you mean and i'm like here i know who sampled isn't official but listen and tell me that's not a sample i was like oh shit you know we must have lost that paperwork from the 90s uncle

23:03 Luke F. Walton my

23:03 Mike Ladman we can't

23:04 Luke F. Walton god go yeah

23:04 Mike Ladman to air with that so it was we they you know they're great partners and they like went back and backtracked and found the thing you know and made the deal and got it done there's other times where they'll be like no we don't want to open up that can of worms because

23:17 Luke F. Walton Yes.

23:17 Mike Ladman they could stand to lose there's an 80s hip-hop song i look into and the artists or even a different artist to actually much smaller artists

23:28 Mike Ladman stood to lose more money from going back to pay back payments on vinyl sales and streams that they just won't license it they don't want to like go back and open up that wormhole of what could be lost costs for it

23:41 Luke F. Walton yeah it's it's so this is like a whole side that i feel like people don't think about a ton they just think like you know i like restaurants they'll play music it's like well technically you're supposed to have an agreement to be able to play that music like there's a lot of stuff that kind of goes on in the shadows

23:54 Luke F. Walton but when you're having major broadcasts you have these huge liability concerns so you got to do everything by the book and and you also have you as a musician want to pay these other musicians because some of them this might be the biggest check that they ever get in their whole career yeah

24:08 Mike Ladman And you want to get paid too.

24:10 Luke F. Walton right

24:10 Mike Ladman Every single thing is a small miracle. And that's whether you're, you know, AC/DC or like.

24:19 Mike Ladman honing the vacuums from idaho like any sink is a small miracle and i think if you're going to be making music with an ear towards that or trying to figure out this world anything you can do to increase your chances is all you can do you

24:33 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

24:33 Mike Ladman know anything you do to make your song more appealing or less scary because if there's 10 5 or 10 tracks and i'm on time crunch here this sample i don't know who has this there's no metadata or anything in the in the track boom you're gone i have four other ones you

24:47 Luke F. Walton Yeah,

24:48 Mike Ladman know it's usually

24:48 Luke F. Walton it's good advice.

24:49 Mike Ladman there's like a bunch of things in play so it's like it makes it really easy if a music supervisor is slammed to pick which horse they want to push on you know there are times like that's scary i'm not bandwidth to do it i think it's not my favorite track so you know let's let's get rid of that This one thing I want to say an example story

25:09 Luke F. Walton Yes.

25:09 Mike Ladman would be kind of wild is

25:10 Luke F. Walton Yes.

25:10 Mike Ladman I was DMing everywhere couldn't find it all different labels who had the sample It was something there's something family and I ended up finding on Facebook

25:20 Mike Ladman like the family's name this movie had some family group and I started DMing everyone with the same last name and eventually someone was like that's my aunt

25:32 Mike Ladman she's very old and like sick but yeah like and it's basically can i give you 20 or 40 000 to use your song in my ad and like here's my email this is very real uh and then i he's like let me see if i can get a hold of her at this point i'm i'm very i have a very like strong

25:53 Mike Ladman routine and consistency and things in my life of like eating healthy working out meditating and all this stuff and work at this point was so insane I was alone at my agency for about five or six years now I have Mara you know who works with me she's a badass and amazing but solo was kind of gnarly for sure and

26:11 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

26:12 Mike Ladman at this point I remember this was the craziest December and there was so much going on all at once and everything was on fire that I'd walk

26:19 Mike Ladman to work three days without brushing my teeth and had to go to my head of production like this is you know me i don't i'm a consistent person that's like my superpower and like this is not healthy if i'm forgetting that like this is not okay and it was during all this going on and it was crazy and i remember i took a breath there's a weird unknown number that called me hello hello this is old faint voice saying i think you messaged my cousin

26:47 Mike Ladman With a kind of an interesting accent, apologizing for not speaking English well.

26:52 Mike Ladman and she was calling from egypt and it was the this woman who was a writer on this song so through her we got in touch connected her to the label and sent money over and the whole thing was it was wild and at the time i was like you're apologizing like wait and my mom was like i didn't know the language is in egypt i'm pretty sure it's arabic but like it was like just a wild thing that that's kind of where that

27:16 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

27:17 Mike Ladman happened so you never know advertising in particular because it's it's brands because there's a lot more money at stake there's a lot more liability that would have to be more buttoned up tv shows and movies are pretty buttoned up but also not quite as much because if you kind of throw a great bigger track in the background of a bar there's less risk you know you can get a song you know in

27:40 Mike Ladman tv show or film depending on for a couple grand a couple grand i'm even talking is like that same song for me it's probably going to be you know 50 to 100 grand an a-lister for a tv show could be 50 to 100 grand for me we're talking a million bucks minimum for something like that so there's a lot more at stake and there's more eyes on commercial

28:00 Luke F. Walton Yes, absolutely. I'd like to ask you and only say as much as you'd like to, but the Creed Super Bowl spot. but it

28:07 Mike Ladman Yeah,

28:07 Luke F. Walton just seemed like so difficult because there's just so much ip there's you have characters you have the band you have the song it's having a viral moment and it's a super bowl commercial just felt like such a high wire act incredible commercial but i would love to know like how did that come about how did you feel when you got that one across the finish line

28:26 Mike Ladman that is a favorite of mine for so many reasons. I've done a bunch of Super Bowl work. That's the most music forward one and just I think memorable one

28:37 Luke F. Walton of Yeah.

28:38 Mike Ladman all the ones I've been lucky to work on. uh paramount plus that i think is our third or fourth installment of this mountain of talent and the past years he was musically really just a supporting role background where he was just kind of intentionally sounded like you know an epic movie score you know so they worked at the great musicians kept human and they just kept they did their thing you know i the team has such a relationship with them and they're so great like i was not that hands-on i kind of just let them do their thing this one it was one morning

29:07 Mike Ladman the end of december and yeah because it was cold so end of december and i had a producer come up to me and say hey so the team wants to use a foo fighter song i was like oh like you know it they're pretty particular and very expensive you know expensive i was like i don't know if that's gonna work you know we were just told it's pretty unlikely we need backups to go to client i was like all right like let me see some scripts and

29:34 Mike Ladman you know get you some stuff tomorrow and so they explain the script to me of it was going to be you know Patrick Stewart throwing hey Arnold so you know the joke was going to be there go it was my hit splat that was going to really be the joke but in regards to all that IP that's all Paramount Mountain IP it's

29:50 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

29:51 Mike Ladman all part of Paramount Plus so there's significant you know discount to the cloud to use they have the rights to use that so the IP for everything you see isn't as much of an issue although I'm not

30:03 Mike Ladman charge of that that's my producer ba's nightmare because they still have to get each ip i think to approve their own part of all this stuff and even though it's you know the financing may be not as crazy as it seems from the outset they're part of it but there's still an insane amount of approvals for each none of them are all on the same space at once so

30:22 Luke F. Walton Cool.

30:22 Mike Ladman they had to go management you know so they're all overshooting and piecing together and so there's that whole crazy hurdle that's all happening at light speed mix of vfx

30:31 Mike Ladman so anyways like we need this i'm like all right cool i'll give you you know tomorrow i'm like no we're going to clients in 10 minutes i was like oh man give me a beat i have a playlist for everything went through some playlists just thought of things and so i wrote scribble down you know probably 5 10 ideas i didn't make a playlist like here's a couple songs because they need to be known so you don't need to hear you just kind of know it by

30:50 Luke F. Walton Yeah,

30:50 Mike Ladman eyeball you

30:51 Luke F. Walton yeah.

30:51 Mike Ladman know so i shared a bunch like all right kind of cool kind of cool and then there was one i was like well you guys know me as this cool Well, Crate Digger guy, hear me out. Creed.

31:01 Mike Ladman like higher and by like scene he just got into a stance like what power stance was like fuck yeah what if they were on the mountain like literally on the moment he's amazing dang kelly the whole team and he's like what if they were on the mountain and they were playing and the whole thing he had tried to use them for like some business pitch he'd been trying to do this creative thing and at the time they were really in the zeitgeist you know i think this is the thing that just it all

31:28 Mike Ladman of coalesced into this moment but because they fell in love with that song so much they completely rewrote the whole thing to really have create like are they gonna even be around and they were and were able to go shoot them in you know in brooklyn

31:41 Luke F. Walton In

31:41 Mike Ladman and we

31:42 Luke F. Walton Brooklyn?

31:42 Mike Ladman got to teach patrick stewart how to sing creed over zoom a 13 year old boy the act you know the voice of hey arnold and who's like do you know what this is like just stuff that i definitely did not have in my career bingo

31:56 Mike Ladman single card and they were great i think they're a little they're very protective they didn't want to be the butt of the joke rightfully so you know and i think that's why they are so you know they've capitalized on this moment instead of just you know being made fun of they're not never no no actually you go back and listen to the way i know all these songs

32:12 Luke F. Walton Yeah,

32:12 Mike Ladman and they all

32:13 Luke F. Walton totally.

32:13 Mike Ladman sound cool it's like my seventh grade band totally covered a bunch but like they ruled and there's just so many funny things that you know on set that we're like i was like i just i never believe it until it's on air

32:24 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

32:24 Mike Ladman And then we're shooting them and Brooklyn was like, I can't. like i'm waiting for like this to all fall apart and

32:31 Luke F. Walton Yes.

32:32 Mike Ladman you know there's so many other lines that didn't make it into the thing my creative director got to like yell at scott staff like you know a line he's like it's like scott you know throw me whatever the thing and you know get to yell at him in his best patrick stewart voice and and get yelled at by a scott whatever you need peace stew just all this wild stuff that none of that made the cut but and then it went it went live and went gangbusters and you know it was it was everywhere so it was cool that was one where like

32:58 Mike Ladman one where like the right song people you know can just change the whole spot they went from literally just a three second joke to be you know there was uh what was his name from you know 9-1-1 patrick whatever

33:08 Luke F. Walton Oh, yeah.

33:09 Mike Ladman the kind of trance anthem that they

33:11 Luke F. Walton Yes.

33:11 Mike Ladman creed on it like it just became the spot on the super bowl i think it was only a third but online there's about a two minute cut that's just ridiculous like the whole script that my team the fact that they sold through this idea really made no sense

33:25 Luke F. Walton Yes.

33:25 Mike Ladman let's start yes i mean so that was a fun one we worked that one we worked with paramount has a clearance team and they were danica and then we're we're great to get it all to work as well but that was definitely that was definitely a highlight that's something a yeah cool one for sure do all this like nerdy music stuff and have a bunch of college buddies and they don't really care about that or whatever awards i've gotten but like created a super bowl they're like

33:51 Mike Ladman Cool. They're like, that's cool.

33:54 Luke F. Walton oh yeah yeah yeah i remember you you're like you wouldn't tell me what the spot was but you're just like it's gonna be a good one make sure you watch the super bowl like i'm working on i'm cooking on something good and i i knew it the instant like the first shot i'm like that's this is ladman's piece i know it and i see creed up on the mountain like hell yes

34:17 Mike Ladman it was

34:18 Luke F. Walton Good.

34:18 Mike Ladman it was so funny to just see that one like to go out in the world and i've had other spots with like amazing things die after ships so like i just didn't believe it until it was out in the world and it's you know it's like releasing music to see the reaction and you never know what it's going to be there's some spots that are like this is going to be a major spot for commercials but like this is going to be so big and all this and then you're like did anyone see or hear this and then so when you kind of you you psyched on something and you get that feedback and certainly is of fun

34:47 Luke F. Walton totally

34:47 Mike Ladman The

34:48 Luke F. Walton keeps

34:48 Mike Ladman fun was crazy.

34:48 Luke F. Walton you keeps you going man i mean

34:50 Mike Ladman Chasing

34:50 Luke F. Walton the

34:51 Mike Ladman the dragon, yeah.

34:51 Luke F. Walton the music thing like uh when i was working with chai in japan that whole thing felt like a fever dream like it was like this is not gonna happen it's also happening in another country so i'm not aware of like did it actually come out because it's not on u.s spotify it's only on japan spotify like these like weird things of like i made way more music with them that like

35:14 Luke F. Walton like people in the united states will just won't hear it's fine going to japan and sitting in a movie theater and then my song comes on and the end credits and i'm playing bass guitar and so you know i and also in japan they're so respectful they watch all of the end credits so i'm in a packed theater everyone's just sitting watching the end credits i'm listening to my music i'm looking around everyone's locked in absorbing my music um yeah i was i was emotional man it was crazy

35:41 Luke F. Walton but you just don't think it's actually going to happen until it happens and then you can't take that away from you it actually happened you know yeah

35:47 Mike Ladman yeah that's that whole thing with the credits and then also to think oh cool people actually hearing this on good speakers not just like their thing and everyone's sitting and we all know the stories of people songs that people have on their hard drives from

35:58 Luke F. Walton yeah

35:58 Mike Ladman dream sessions with artists these amazing songs that never come out i have all you know demos from artists and we actually get them i'm so glad you had that experience because it's like that like that's it's

36:07 Luke F. Walton I know and

36:09 Mike Ladman wild it's it's so of all ways to hear music when you hear a parrot or something or that

36:14 Luke F. Walton they also have that feeling of like there are other people that are all experiencing this that I'm not a part of either and like you put it out there and it's it's there now and it's like something that was a part of you now is completely separate is with all these other people and like a commercial like the Coors spot it's just like I'm picturing people for the Coors light in their hand hearing my song and like

36:33 Luke F. Walton and like cheersing the tv and drinking their beer and just like i'm a part of that experience but i'm not in that same room i don't know it's just it's crazy man it's weird

36:41 Mike Ladman yeah and i think what's funny is that that never goes away at

36:46 Luke F. Walton cool

36:46 Mike Ladman one of the guild the music supervisor award shows a couple years ago paul williams you know wrote countless songs but i mean the rainbow connection which is like the most perfect song ever him talking about still you know an older guy who's won everything one of the greatest songwriters ever ever of

37:00 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

37:00 Mike Ladman like i almost can't keep track i think of everything that's going to be synced or what he's on but he says in joy still anytime you know his wife is watching tv and he'll run in from the other room to see that and how it's recontextualized and repurposed and reimagined and brought to life that doesn't fade which is just super super cool

37:18 Luke F. Walton It is. And I love those songs are carried on like those batons are passed by other people that just genuinely love music. Like, I think you showed me a song. I'm sorry, I don't remember the name right now, but something along the lines of like a song for plants or

37:33 Mike Ladman Oh,

37:33 Luke F. Walton yes,

37:33 Mike Ladman more darts than plantasia.

37:36 Luke F. Walton Plantasia.

37:37 Mike Ladman But

37:37 Luke F. Walton But I was just

37:38 Mike Ladman he put

37:38 Luke F. Walton like.

37:38 Mike Ladman in a mail to add eight, nine years ago. It's now. blown up like that Yeah. for

37:45 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

37:46 Mike Ladman that one we had to talk to his daughter who was working at a catering hall and this is this old weird nugget so it was a an album made for plants to grow and for humans to enjoy too

38:01 Mike Ladman set a foundation for plantasia and so she was she like couldn't be bothered with all this stuff like you know about the licensing i'm like no we need to do this we need to pay so but she worked catering so she worked nights so there's only small window of time where she would respond to us and it was this whole thing we got it and it was this thing and it's gone on to now be one of those nuggets that

38:18 Luke F. Walton It's

38:19 Mike Ladman probably

38:19 Luke F. Walton beautiful

38:19 Mike Ladman millions of streams on spotify it gets referenced today my creative reference that crack it's been pressed by was it light in the attic or terrorbird put out a different album by that by more darts and that's awesome and weird and wonderful but like it's become it's it's just i don't think because that of that had necessarily that may have helped but

38:39 Luke F. Walton Mm

38:40 Mike Ladman it's

38:40 Luke F. Walton hmm.

38:40 Mike Ladman just one of those things that now you know as rights holders have taken on this whole life and i'm sure i can't imagine that more depth would experience that unfortunately that's

38:49 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

38:49 Mike Ladman that's what i think for a sink i always say it's a great song long plus time is

38:55 Luke F. Walton Hmm.

38:55 Mike Ladman what that happens and you just hope that that time hits well you can enjoy it

39:00 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

39:00 Mike Ladman because if a supervisor likes it if someone likes a song i was always that friend who like giving people the music at a record store i can give one stranger a new recommendation a new song and so supervision sort of allows me to share music on a larger scale and my interpretation of that and there's those dream syncs like someone had my kinks sync i got

39:25 Mike Ladman yeah it was a whole thing really close it was a done deal until client who is no longer there got fired from a company basically went to some band backstage said hey you should put your song in the right spot there's a whole thing and went against strategy it was a major bummer uh anyways but can't you know replacements i'm gonna try and get deer hoof and stuff i just love

39:47 Luke F. Walton Cool.

39:47 Mike Ladman those guys so much even though that's gonna be tough because they're pretty and one of the few anti-ad bands but i don't think there's many suits running around trying to get that or have a whole crew of supervisors or big metal punk heads and running a company slip one pass the goalie though

40:01 Luke F. Walton Totally.

40:01 Mike Ladman uh so i have gotten that there yet but i you know fat chick heard her over on the west coast you know he did the turnstile taco bell thing you know two years ago and where so anyways a great song where supervisors as we i want to be by that are searching for them and championing them and fighting for them and like you wouldn't believe the mountains trying to move to get those songs heard by the world and

40:26 Mike Ladman like a pink push or Nick Drake's milk Volkswagen thing there's so many things where we're trying to find a home for them.

40:33 Luke F. Walton Hmm. It's a beautiful thing. And it's also I think it's a good message for musicians, because obviously you want you want the success now you want to change your life, you want to quit your day job, you want to do all these things.

40:44 Luke F. Walton But that idea of like, you're not just writing lotto tickets that expire next week, you're writing works of art that can endure and your grandkids could get the benefit of you making this thing and that pays for their college and you might be long dead.

40:57 Luke F. Walton But like you created something that can endure beyond you and and serve your family and serve the fans and all these brands and all these kind of things um so just keep making you know sorry to interrupt this very important broadcast but it's time for one more advertisement for myself for this podcast um what i what i'm asking for is for you to rate it five stars to share it with your friends this is like the most important thing for this podcast to grow so if you want to do this you go into the podcast screen right you click on the dot dot dot on spotify under there it says rate show

41:27 Luke F. Walton and you go and you click it five stars if you could do that for me that's the best way for the algorithms a lot of stuff to share it out with the world i know that it's a lot to ask but if you could please please please just please just hit those three dots and then a five star would really help us out and helps us you know get the get the word out and spread the love of music so thank you if you're listening on youtube you know what to do like subscribe all that good stuff thank you so much and uh here's the rest of the episode

41:51 Mike Ladman Keep making and release. I mean, there's so much music just sitting on hard drives. like you buried in the ground you

41:57 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

41:58 Mike Ladman can't make money off a song that no one has heard before

42:00 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

42:00 Mike Ladman so I know people think there's the thing oh well you know brands are always looking for this

42:07 Mike Ladman never unreleased stuff there's one big brand who often does that but not always i think i mean people will say brands of other things i think for the majority having it out there and getting it heard and you figure okay what are your art songs like what are your songs you're going to release but you're saving for that session with an artist cool and they make so many beats that are good but not there

42:27 Luke F. Walton Yep.

42:27 Mike Ladman and

42:27 Luke F. Walton Yep.

42:27 Mike Ladman you can put those in like a music library and stock music what that is and then at least you're you know you're in the jackpot someone could

42:36 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

42:36 Mike Ladman roll and win and they find your song and there's somebody there but i think there is a lot of preciousness for that and your favorite song that you wrote today in two years you might go there and that's fine that's

42:50 Luke F. Walton Mm-hmm.

42:51 Mike Ladman kind of like a new shirt i say the song you wrote today is your favorite shirt that's

42:55 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

42:55 Mike Ladman your friday night you save it well what do i do this week i went my new shirt for that thing and

42:59 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

42:59 Mike Ladman then as time goes on you season change you got a better new shirt next time you're like monday clean the house shirt so like your newest song is your newest favorite thing and so like kind of keep track of that rotation at some point you're like well

43:14 Mike Ladman i haven't worn it in years like let's be real when am i gonna when the time hasn't come i'm getting better about literally about like i haven't worn it like i'm not gonna just fine i give it to a friend and that music put elsewhere give that to someone else to wear so i think it is beautiful that yours your music would just i think it is you could buy yourself something or a relative something

43:33 Luke F. Walton Yeah. Yeah, totally. and you don't know who it's connecting with or like i try and tell myself all this all the time where you know i i have some songs that have higher streams than other ones but it's like those are just numbers there are actual real people on the other end listening to your song and like you look like the thing that i love looking at is my playlist ads and like i have 15 20 000 playlist ads every 28 days

44:02 Luke F. Walton And that's amazing. Like think about that, that scale by which I am touching all these people's lives and they might only stream it a few times. It might not, you know, but these are all individual playlists and things that they can share with friends that they'll reference when they go like, I want to remember what it felt like to be in summer 2025.

44:20 Mike Ladman well yeah

44:21 Luke F. Walton Yeah, it's

44:21 Mike Ladman i

44:22 Luke F. Walton crazy, man. But I try, I have to remind myself that because it's

44:24 Mike Ladman i haven't

44:25 Luke F. Walton easy.

44:25 Mike Ladman heard anyone break it down in that way but it is such a it's only you know it's it's still tough because you look at whatever artist is hundreds

44:30 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

44:31 Mike Ladman of millions of streams or

44:32 Luke F. Walton Sure.

44:32 Mike Ladman all that 15 000 people Dude, playlist

44:34 Luke F. Walton right?

44:35 Mike Ladman thing

44:35 Luke F. Walton Right.

44:36 Mike Ladman that's i mean what the garden setting up the gardens 18 000 people that was a dream so you essentially one song had

44:41 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

44:41 Mike Ladman garden audience you know

44:43 Luke F. Walton and it's the own weird weird diffuse but more beautiful in a lot of ways because everyone's having it not just a collective experience they're all having these discrete experiences where they're cleaning their house or they're on a first date or they're getting hyped to go out with their boys or whatever like all those things and i am somehow

45:02 Luke F. Walton contributing to that joy i have to remind myself though because it's so easy because you want to just be like i want to be here i see other people that are there how do i get from here to there and you get like caught up in that same like kind of rat race mentality that's important it's good to keep the hustle but that's not the whole thing that's not even a big part of the thing the thing is the thing itself and

45:20 Mike Ladman yeah and the consistency it's

45:22 Luke F. Walton the consistency yeah

45:23 Mike Ladman like you just show up and you do the thing because you love the thing it's like you know success is not a linear line

45:29 Luke F. Walton Yeah,

45:29 Mike Ladman like

45:29 Luke F. Walton yes.

45:30 Mike Ladman nothing nothing nothing that whoop and

45:32 Luke F. Walton it Yeah.

45:32 Mike Ladman seems you know 10 year overnight success is

45:35 Luke F. Walton Yeah,

45:36 Mike Ladman this thing

45:36 Luke F. Walton right.

45:36 Mike Ladman you story you keep keep hearing everyone's like why are these new artists for the grammys they went this wild dinner before a pandemic uh this dinner party that my friend jay kudel who just knows everyone uh invited me invited me like yeah i'm gonna go every saying like yeah i'm gonna go to that thing and it was his apartment and i think you saw the apartment i think his brand was like a hundred thousand dollars a month and when you saw the apartment you're like okay that's a crazy number but look at this apartment

46:01 Mike Ladman yeah that makes sense like it made sense and

46:03 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

46:03 Mike Ladman this guy showed up a little bit late all these tattoos on his face it was like whoa kind of did not look like everyone else

46:11 Mike Ladman southern drawl the biggest sweetheart ever he was such a sweetheart and this guy man jk's blowing up he's doing his thing uh this guy had an incredible voice he was singing alan stone and robin and alan and uh al green on the piano they had in this incredible apartment and connected with him he got signed to uta that night and this pre-pandemic he was everyday posting and just hustling and his voice was incredible incredible

46:38 Mike Ladman doing all these covers and then i it was teddy swims like teddy swims was this dude and he grinded he had the talent and he grinded it out and he did this cover that genre that thing and now he's headlining festivals tonight the radio city but

46:53 Luke F. Walton Yeah, yeah, yeah,

46:54 Mike Ladman like he just did the thing over and over and like yeah i was like man when is he gonna hit because he's too good and so slow and then just hit that you know that critical mass of the and just connected but it's

47:07 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

47:07 Mike Ladman cool to see a sync is the byproduct of a great song it shouldn't be the finish line i want to write a song for a sync it'll probably feel a little bit flat you know you want to write a great song and find someone who could repurpose that and it's probably pretty interesting i put a song about brexit in a facebook thing that everyone thought was a spoken word thing is beautiful artist kate tempest and uh

47:30 Mike Ladman it's totally about breaks it the song itself but it worked for this you know it'll make you cry for pandemic you know however many years later and

47:38 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

47:38 Mike Ladman it's interesting when people say well that song's not written for that you can't do that anyone who has heard every song

47:44 Mike Ladman has their own interpretation every time you hear a song you're reinterpret oh that song's written about me or this or that you know i've heard uh they're saying this is like played at everyone's wedding this was a breakup song i was telling my girl go

47:56 Luke F. Walton Yeah, yeah,

47:57 Mike Ladman pack your stuff and go home and it's it's wild how that you know it's about drugs i whatever whatever

48:04 Luke F. Walton right,

48:04 Mike Ladman you want it yes. it's so funny how every song is reinterpret and people can get maybe over protective but

48:11 Luke F. Walton Mm

48:12 Mike Ladman i think

48:12 Luke F. Walton -hmm.

48:12 Mike Ladman that's the magic is in the unknown of what the song is in everyone's own version of it there's so many soul songs that i picked because it's like i love you i want you all that obviously about someone but for me it's about a product often

48:26 Luke F. Walton Yeah, right.

48:26 Mike Ladman you cut out the verse use the hook you're good

48:29 Luke F. Walton Yeah. Yeah, I really like your point about the nonlinear progress because I might not look it compared to you, but I've been going to the gym for the last like six months. It took a solid like three, four months for me to notice anything and I was working my ass off.

48:46 Luke F. Walton But then all of a sudden you hit that month like four or five and you're like, oh my God, my shirts are fitting a little different and you get a little momentum and you start being like, oh, I'm putting way more weight on this.

48:57 Luke F. Walton on this bar than i used to and it it i i expected it to be like that steady uh you know you add five pounds you add five pounds you add five pounds it was like a lot of flat and then a snap your fingers and now you're like nervous systems ready you know or your ligaments are ready it was this weird feeling and as somebody that your your superpower is consistency i'd love to hear uh any i don't know wisdom from your fitness journey too thanks

49:22 Mike Ladman Yeah, well, congrats on that.

49:23 Luke F. Walton man

49:23 Mike Ladman I think that's why it's so hard is because you it's literally hard work like

49:29 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

49:29 Mike Ladman you have to get up earlier you're not doing something fun to do something that particularly in the beginning is just so not enjoyable it's so and so you're losing on fun do something not enjoyable and it's hard that's kind of the point so to not see results after a week three weeks a month people it's very easy to give up or just sit on the couch it's kind of

49:55 Mike Ladman and the trick is it doesn't really get easier i find that the flip is actually that in the beginning you feel good because you did this hard thing it

50:05 Luke F. Walton Okay.

50:05 Mike Ladman flips to a point where you feel bad if you don't

50:09 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

50:09 Mike Ladman want to go because you'll just won't feel like yourself because i mean endorphins the way you just feel strong and that's confidence that people notice you know it's just like you just have a different thing and you sleep feel better so anymore and it does really kick off this whole cycle of feeling good then

50:30 Mike Ladman it feels like it feels good feeling good people like how do you do that it's like well the other thing makes me feel bad that sounds simple but until

50:36 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

50:36 Mike Ladman you break that like your normal might be bad and you just don't know what good feels like and then you get addicted to that good where you know if you eat whatever that thing is you can kind of prep yourself like all right i'm gonna eat that's gonna be awesome but i

50:49 Luke F. Walton know Right.

50:50 Mike Ladman i'm done so after same way like a night out drinking like you know i don't drink a lot anymore but i'm like i'm gonna just let have a great night and

50:58 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

50:58 Mike Ladman i know tomorrow is gonna hurt and that's fine and then this next day you get right back to it so i think the consistency thing i don't know where comes from to

51:09 Luke F. Walton Mm

51:09 Mike Ladman be honest

51:09 Luke F. Walton -hmm.

51:09 Mike Ladman but i found at least for the gym and the food is i don't know who said like eat the toad first thing in the morning the do

51:17 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

51:17 Mike Ladman the hard thing first is

51:19 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

51:19 Mike Ladman i think it because then the rest of your day is set up i think

51:22 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

51:22 Mike Ladman advertising this world the stress is on it's wild how crazy and intense it is and then i remember i had a roommate who was a nurse and i'd be like oh man my day was crazy this didn't happen and that and this artist artist canceled and i didn't get this and this was supposed to be the song and all that and

51:39 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

51:39 Mike Ladman just like oh man i know my name is crazy like five people died on me like like oh man i didn't get that cool song i wanted didn't go in that little

51:47 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

51:47 Mike Ladman film oh no 37 film five people died and it was like whoa but i found that it just sets up my day it's sort of we're talking about advantage for saints i think it's like a little advantage for life of it allows you not to be reactive because you see people who are you know it's whatever clock in the morning they're in the office

52:07 Mike Ladman and they're getting that first cup of coffee or they're on a zoom and they're like bed to zoom you

52:11 Luke F. Walton Yes.

52:12 Mike Ladman Yes. can see it and they're just swatting flies and like the world is coming at them by that time i've had a whole day i've accomplished something you

52:20 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

52:20 Mike Ladman know i went to the gym and like that can't be taken away like i meditated i went to the gym i did cardio i little cold shower i had something healthy and so the rest of the day like can't be like it's it's like already a good day there can be other stuff that can happen but it's not like like you know if all we have is time like you didn't it's not a total loss of a day and

52:40 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

52:40 Mike Ladman then you feel good and then you sleep and then you kind of rinse and repeat but i do not like my alarm clock i hate it every day at 6 30 uh

52:47 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

52:48 Mike Ladman like it's never like that part never gets easier but i'm like all right how can make it easy so i think there is the war of art by stephen pressfield is

52:56 Luke F. Walton Love

52:56 Mike Ladman great

52:57 Luke F. Walton that

52:57 Mike Ladman you

52:57 Luke F. Walton book. Yes.

52:57 Mike Ladman can apply it to so many things put your ass in the seat and so for music 10 20 minutes more ideally but

53:06 Luke F. Walton Mm-hmm.

53:06 Mike Ladman i know that if i if i pick up a guitar for 10 minutes i might not like those first five but 10 is usually 40 you Yes. do get lost if you do it and

53:15 Luke F. Walton Yes.

53:16 Mike Ladman that same thing you don't know when the muse is going to strike but the more you show up the more chances it's going to increase you

53:24 Luke F. Walton Yep.

53:25 Mike Ladman know as soon as you finish a song and get rid of it then you can start a new one you can find that new shirt you have to you do it for you and know that it's hard and then also have a little bit of a forgiveness that like it's you're it will never be perfect and that's cool enough to throw everything out the

53:37 Luke F. Walton Yeah, I like the War of Art thing too, because I've started to channel some of that whatever negative energy thing that he talks about, the resistance, where

53:49 Mike Ladman resistance yeah

53:49 Luke F. Walton I... tend to get resistance when I'm nearing a finish line but the resistance presents itself in a lot of different ways and I try and channel it into new ideas so I'm like halfway through a record and I start to get that little wandering eye and you go oh like I could abandon this I could start working on this next thing but it's like okay no I'm just gonna plant the seed ignore it

54:13 Luke F. Walton finish what I'm doing always finish even if you throw it away but finish it and then go back and grab the thing but my initial tendency was to

54:23 Luke F. Walton never see anything all the way through but you can use that same energy that like wandering eye that that sporadic sense to seed your future success or the next thing that you're going to work on and trust that by the time you're almost done with that thing that you planted you're going to see another plant that you might want to go take care of but it's like have the grit have the determination to finish and then you'll have the momentum to hit the next thing that you wanted to do earlier

54:48 Luke F. Walton So

54:49 Mike Ladman i

54:49 Luke F. Walton I love love Keeps

54:49 Mike Ladman that that's

54:49 Luke F. Walton that current.

54:50 Mike Ladman beautiful and i that's so rare for any musician artist writing a song is easy finishing a song is hard like the first part is easy the idea the first and that's the first song took how long and i couldn't do they just had one day where it hit but i i don't do that i'm nowhere to coming back to the creation side so many people like yeah i haven't heard anyone say finish everything and then move on because there's always that that other spark and i think finishing like

55:16 Mike Ladman and again the more you do that the less scary it is

55:19 Luke F. Walton exactly

55:19 Mike Ladman and the more clear

55:20 Luke F. Walton and you can trust yourself because like there's a lot of that self-doubt that shows up around 60% done where you go oh this is actually bad or oh like I have no talent but then like you build that confidence it's like you know what the last one like a lot of people like so I'm gonna I can

55:34 Mike Ladman you don't

55:35 Luke F. Walton do know this I

55:36 Mike Ladman you never

55:36 Luke F. Walton know

55:36 Mike Ladman know

55:36 Luke F. Walton I

55:36 Mike Ladman when can it's gonna be music yeah

55:37 Luke F. Walton yeah right right yes

55:38 Mike Ladman and i think make it easy also just like while i'm on the book thing atomic habits by james clear is awesome

55:43 Luke F. Walton Okay. Okay.

55:44 Mike Ladman there's

55:44 Luke F. Walton I

55:44 Mike Ladman so

55:44 Luke F. Walton read

55:44 Mike Ladman many

55:44 Luke F. Walton it this morning.

55:45 Mike Ladman nuggets

55:45 Luke F. Walton I of haven't

55:45 Mike Ladman information

55:45 Luke F. Walton read that one, though.

55:46 Mike Ladman it's called atomic habits you'll love it like

55:47 Luke F. Walton Cool. Okay.

55:48 Mike Ladman make it easy for yourself so i take out my gym clothes the night before i make my electrolyte water the night before and like do it as easy as possible and you'll hear so many people say it in so many different ways like you don't have you can tell yourself like you're just tricking yourself it's

56:04 Luke F. Walton Yes.

56:05 Mike Ladman like i don't have to work out today i just have to i just have to go enter the gym and if i walk into the gym and decide i don't want to work out that's fine by the time we're in the gym well your your gym clothes are on like i'm just going to do a light workout you're going to start like well i'm here i might as well go and your first set's bad but then your second one's good you know it's just that it's just getting there you know the longer you wait to jump in the pool the harder it is

56:28 Mike Ladman this so

56:28 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

56:28 Mike Ladman it's like you know i think you can find whatever humor and whoever you want talking about like your brain growing i don't know about this thing but they say you know the more there's a part of your brain that grows the more willing you are and the more times you do like hard things that

56:41 Luke F. Walton Okay. Yeah.

56:41 Mike Ladman grows and it becomes easier and i think that becomes everything and what you're saying about like you know that going here and that that's what meditation does for

56:50 Luke F. Walton Nice.

56:50 Mike Ladman me is that that is the act of it it's not nothingness it's about kind of a center and it's what i do a mantra-based sentence you have a word no one says the word for a full 20 minutes the whole point is you have it and then you drift and they're like oh you're aware of that and you just go back to it and you're spending time whatever your practice is it's really just going back to that and you do that in this allotted period of time called meditation and it starts to trickle out into life so i'm answering emails i'm answering emails

57:21 Mike Ladman uh what's on instagram oh no i gotta go back to email sorry

57:25 Luke F. Walton Yes.

57:25 Mike Ladman well i want to listen to that album i have to do the search and it starts to come in all these ways where you kind of keep going back to your north star because everything in life is a distraction and they're good and bad or they just are and it's about it just helps you be more aware when you're off the trail

57:42 Mike Ladman and come back to that thing and it's this practice that's why everyone calls it yoga meditation it's a practice because you never get perfect at it so you're just continuing to just try to get better and be forgiving of yourself when you don't get it right because that's always kind of you know

57:58 Luke F. Walton Yeah. I want to ask about returning to creating music again and going to all of these sessions and kind of the unique perspective you're bringing both.

58:10 Luke F. Walton to the writing and production sessions but then also the perspective that you're bringing to your colleagues of this is what it looks like on the other side this is what it looks like to be a working musician yeah

58:20 Mike Ladman yeah it's it's once i've been doing this music supervision in-house at agencies for like 16 years something like that once i kind of got into this i really like i don't say stop playing guitar but the thought of really making music kind of went away i just got thrown into this i didn't even know it was a dream job a dream job and

58:40 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

58:41 Mike Ladman suddenly i'm just going to concerts i'm guestless every night and i'm just getting early listens of music and i'm just doing all these things that i was you know totally wrapped up in that that it was like i felt very satisfied or satiated with my music experience and i participated you know i still pick up guitar and you know seven years ago i gotta write i gotta make

59:05 Mike Ladman music again i don't know how to even my bands like that was like in a little tascam amtrak digital

59:10 Luke F. Walton Yeah,

59:10 Mike Ladman you

59:11 Luke F. Walton I remember those.

59:11 Mike Ladman know 48 tracks yeah so i i was never the guy recording and it's wild i meet these kids now where when i saw you know guitars i want to play guitar i want to do guitar solos kids saw skrillex and they like were like i want to make computer like and that was a wild thought because that was never something that was like I want to make music, not push buttons

59:30 Luke F. Walton Mm

59:30 Mike Ladman and do

59:31 Luke F. Walton -hmm.

59:31 Mike Ladman whatever that was, you

59:32 Luke F. Walton Uh

59:33 Mike Ladman know, good

59:33 Luke F. Walton -huh.

59:33 Mike Ladman time.

59:33 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

59:34 Mike Ladman So I participated in sync camps and sync camps are really in a writing camp for there'd be a label or publisher bringing a bunch of writers and they bring a couple of supervisors and we give active briefs that we're working on for specific projects or what I call evergreen style

59:50 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

59:50 Mike Ladman roles that work. And I did a bunch and they're fun and you kind of. you have the job etc as original music so it would be briefing people and working with references so hey we want something kind of starts like this song ends like this song so for these camps i i would do it and a lot of people just kind of make fake music like

60:09 Mike Ladman like give these briefs but they would just go back to doing a thing that Yeah. is kind of just sinking into sounds like it'll probably work it might get some small promos and some things like that but it's not

60:09 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

60:21 Mike Ladman the big thing

60:22 Luke F. Walton Well, it's like yeah library stuff.

60:23 Mike Ladman it's

60:23 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

60:23 Mike Ladman like that and that's fine and i try to make that stuff as good as i could but it just you know it just was i got invited to this camp in new york i just saw my york i was like yep i'll go to spain sure you know and then they were great like i gave all these old french 60s references and everyone just got weird and what do you think and i had

60:47 Mike Ladman like being in the room listening back and said oh it's fine you know this is awesome what if we did this change this and bring in start speaking in i kind of say speaking references and

60:56 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

60:56 Mike Ladman bring it all and they would just jump on it and so a bunch of the rooms you know instead of going out for the lunch or whatever i just stayed in the room and like wasn't even thinking and i was like hey what if we did this that and was a couple of the rooms after we're like well here's the split sheet you get 10 of publishing i was like oh i'm not here

61:13 Mike Ladman I'm here for that I'm a supervisor like I'm not I'm not trying to get anything out of this in that way like well you changed the song and all that and that's what started me on this journey like oh I have you know value and ideas in

61:26 Luke F. Walton Yes.

61:26 Mike Ladman the room even if I'm not holding an instrument or you know pushing putting on a compressor so that those songs then got shared one of those guys was in town uh spencer ludwig who's the man he's you know from capital cities he's his own artist he crushes it in the sync game and has all this stuff him and i mean new york let's flip some samples

61:47 Luke F. Walton Sweet.

61:48 Mike Ladman uh so i went and was a trumpet player i gave him this old soul song and we turned it into like a poppy house thing you know that then got he spends was with nick lee who did industry baby and then from for lil nas x and a bunch of other things and he then loved it and sent it to like dj snake and get it it's like holy shit it went nowhere but the fact that this guy heard it and it went to those inboxes

62:11 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

62:11 Mike Ladman like oh

62:12 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

62:12 Mike Ladman uh so then i heard those songs like this is cool like this whatever this thing is and then uh owen barab from at the time milk and honey uh so i do any sessions i'll tell you over sessions and like she was the one who really started like got me my first session with someone you know and the first thing was so awkward it's like you know like you just meet someone like let's go make music

62:35 Luke F. Walton Yeah,

62:35 Mike Ladman it's

62:36 Luke F. Walton I know.

62:36 Mike Ladman like really strange and

62:38 Luke F. Walton totally

62:39 Mike Ladman i was like very eager i don't have a peaceful way of like trying to think of how to say i don't know yet

62:43 Luke F. Walton Uh

62:43 Mike Ladman like

62:44 Luke F. Walton -huh.

62:44 Mike Ladman trying to figure out how to stay with that except the first guy i'm like first years okay i don't know it's like oh what are you doing it's like hold on man there's still chilling it's like you know first date or something you know it's like relax and i was like ready to make music music i drank a coffee we're gonna hang out check out some vibes and so for the past two and a half or three years yeah doing sessions people set me up or

63:06 Mike Ladman or how racist is musicians just like somehow when someone like hey let's you know hey you just want to come over i'll play records i'll

63:13 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

63:13 Mike Ladman figure out the vibe or i'll bring a playlist into a session so i

63:17 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

63:18 Mike Ladman what i find and you probably know more than me is well a that's how music is made strangers in a room doing the most vulnerable people phones down it's cool how respected that is there's phones down and you're just in a room with a stranger in their house studio or wherever forever for six to eight hours

63:36 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

63:36 Mike Ladman and you just go Yep. and there's no exchange of money or anything and you're just hoping that the artist in the room puts it out another artist picks it up

63:45 Luke F. Walton or Mm

63:45 Mike Ladman a supervisor

63:45 Luke F. Walton hmm.

63:45 Mike Ladman lands it and three to five days later people do two sessions a day you're

63:50 Luke F. Walton Yes.

63:50 Mike Ladman just doing this it's fun but it is a grind it is kind of the hardest most intense best work but

63:56 Luke F. Walton Uh huh. I would agree.

63:58 Mike Ladman it's chasing that thing it's like you almost don't want to pee because you don't want to break the

64:02 Luke F. Walton Yes,

64:02 Mike Ladman creative

64:02 Luke F. Walton totally.

64:03 Mike Ladman vibe so

64:03 Luke F. Walton Totally. These

64:04 Mike Ladman like moments watching are water

64:05 Luke F. Walton so fragile, you know, so fragile.

64:07 Mike Ladman you know it's like it's a kind of like watching watching sports and your players doing

64:10 Luke F. Walton Yes.

64:10 Mike Ladman you know like they're in the zone and you don't want to move to break the flow that's like what it is on a micro level two people in a room together or three or four and it's wild thing that's people like every day all day that's all they're doing hoping something will land that's what a producer in sessions are you know it's for me i get to kind of just dip in and out of it you know i try to do it as much as i can but it's really given me such a different level of

64:36 Mike Ladman empathy for all the people that I'm tapping when I'm giving a brief and then it's like okay you everyone heard the words we need a song like this this and this here's a blank screen and an instrument go and knowing starting to understand how hard that is what

64:52 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

64:52 Mike Ladman that hustle is what the expectations are or not and why the sync thing is so appealing because you can get a demo if you can get a couple hundred bucks for a day two three hundred bucks to go do a thing that could maybe make five grand or a hundred grand like there's some sort of set award or fee for a day's work as opposed to like hopefully beyonce picks it up

65:12 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

65:12 Mike Ladman or whoever you

65:13 Luke F. Walton Right.

65:13 Mike Ladman know like those who are on tiktok it is also this helpful language of what it feels like in the room or i

65:19 Luke F. Walton Yes.

65:19 Mike Ladman am working in ableton or trying to be a better at ableton i know my i will never be the best guy ableton in the room but i probably have the biggest knowledge of music in

65:29 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

65:29 Mike Ladman the room and that's hopefully where my magic is trying to find the little mommy

65:33 Luke F. Walton Definitely.

65:33 Mike Ladman of here's an indian drum here's like this bolivian disco track uh what can we do sprinkle on something to make it a little unexpected and interesting An interesting than

65:44 Luke F. Walton Yes.

65:44 Mike Ladman just the normal thing. And that's, I think, where the value is, and I think inherent in my DNA from doing this job. which is also an alignment i think with personal taste of music is

65:56 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

65:56 Mike Ladman the structure and

65:58 Luke F. Walton Mm

65:58 Mike Ladman the changes

65:58 Luke F. Walton -hmm.

65:58 Mike Ladman within a song that are half the battle for sync is the

66:02 Luke F. Walton Okay.

66:02 Mike Ladman structure i

66:02 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

66:03 Mike Ladman think the hardest thing is to be interesting you can be interesting we can always change and mold and sculpt that but you can't fake interesting and that's always what i'm trying to find so i my process is you know it seems like the number one question is what do you want to make today what's for dinner you know so

66:19 Luke F. Walton Yes.

66:19 Mike Ladman i'll based off whom in the room with will bring a playlist of songs that i'm pretty sure they haven't heard they might like and then that'll kind of be the north star for something to create which is often also a red herring it's

66:31 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

66:32 Mike Ladman like oh we're gonna make something kind of like this song cool

66:34 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

66:34 Mike Ladman cool but yeah let's do that and then in that process they'll probably push some weird plug-in or some wrong thing

66:41 Mike Ladman And I'm like, oh, that's cool because that's not that like forget that that's cool.

66:44 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

66:44 Mike Ladman Let's keep that and we'll figure it out later. You know, let's write the lyrics and then we can go back and try to have the lyrics say something that feels more sync friendly.

66:55 Luke F. Walton Sure. Yes.

66:56 Mike Ladman um but yeah you guys are it really changed musicians and what

67:01 Luke F. Walton Cool.

67:01 Mike Ladman i grind and like how hard and

67:03 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

67:04 Mike Ladman frail it is and it's the funnest scariest and that's the same thing it's the hardest thing every time you go into a session you're

67:10 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

67:10 Mike Ladman starting from scratch

67:11 Luke F. Walton I

67:11 Mike Ladman there's

67:11 Luke F. Walton know.

67:12 Mike Ladman nothing

67:12 Luke F. Walton I know.

67:12 Mike Ladman if you write an amazing song on monday a different amazing song on tuesday wednesday you're back to zero like there's no real transference that happens unlike the gym where it's like you're kind of going to hold a sway

67:24 Luke F. Walton right right

67:25 Mike Ladman i

67:25 Luke F. Walton cool

67:25 Mike Ladman guess not but the more you do it the slightly less weird it is and i finally had a session where nothing happened you know what i mean like we just fried stuff for a couple hours good

67:35 Luke F. Walton totally

67:35 Mike Ladman hang

67:36 Luke F. Walton i've

67:36 Mike Ladman and been then

67:36 Luke F. Walton they're there yep totally

67:37 Mike Ladman i was so scared of like what happens if i don't have it then you know and it sounded you

67:42 Luke F. Walton yep i've i had a session like that uh where you know totally just struck out um i didn't realize that i uh and i

67:51 Luke F. Walton starting to feel kind of off but i had covid i didn't know i had covid i i wasn't really symptomatic or whatever but i was like just not quite my voice just doesn't really feel like two days later i'm like well your body you know like i was pushing really hard midnight oil kind of i did a photo shoot before the session it was but sometimes you strike out you know baseball players strike out best in the world it just happens man

68:15 Mike Ladman And that doesn't mean you don't go up to bat again or that you just quit music. And it's the same thing with the. you're talking about fitness it

68:22 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

68:22 Mike Ladman doesn't mean you're if you if you can't just one day not feeling well or

68:25 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

68:25 Mike Ladman just life catches up like you know i'm sure can

68:29 Luke F. Walton but

68:29 Mike Ladman whatever

68:29 Luke F. Walton it gives

68:29 Mike Ladman it is that's fine just go back the next day you

68:33 Luke F. Walton you better odds though if you're in shape and you're healthy it gives you better odds of that plate

68:36 Mike Ladman it's just increasing the chances you

68:39 Luke F. Walton yeah and every once in a while you

68:40 Mike Ladman know in the right way

68:41 Luke F. Walton have those sessions that feel like it's like the nba finals or something like this like i have to show up today and so like having that energy in the tank is yeah

68:48 Mike Ladman i'm sure that you never know which one is the one you know and you often hear that with successful songs like we wrote it in 10 minutes or like i didn't think it was I know it's good and that's the one that went and it's because there was less pressure on what it should be and it just was you know

69:04 Luke F. Walton Yeah, I like that. It's a good way to put it.

69:06 Mike Ladman there was less filtering on you know my favorite quote is Rick Rubin I don't know anything but I trust my taste and so I think when writing music you can write for someone with someone for a project but if you don't like it why should anyone else and i think there's still half it's like your version of that thing you

69:26 Luke F. Walton Yes.

69:26 Mike Ladman know it's

69:27 Luke F. Walton Yes.

69:28 Mike Ladman like i would say i only bring food to a party that i want to eat

69:31 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

69:31 Mike Ladman you

69:32 Luke F. Walton Good.

69:32 Mike Ladman know like it's like thing is well i want to go there i want to eat here you go that's cool you know and i think music's the same way of that of you can hit it brief but if you still gotta like it yeah

69:44 Luke F. Walton Yeah. Right. And you have so much more energy to finish something if you actually like it.

69:49 Mike Ladman because what's the worst the worst thing is uh we had an old creative director for every ceo of the company i can't actually remember the client it was a new business pitch really intense talk about like a session agencies spent hundreds of thousands of dollars to win a client if you don't like just lose it you know

70:08 Luke F. Walton Wow.

70:08 Mike Ladman so

70:08 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

70:09 Mike Ladman hundreds and then there's weekends usually it's really quick and intense so everyone's working weekends late nights all this stuff and whatever the campaign was we all loved it like we're gonna win this is gonna be a huge account this

70:21 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

70:21 Mike Ladman work is awesome if i went with something else they went with another agency we didn't win and our cco venus carlson sweetest guy who liked the replacements in country music sweet like country music he said

70:35 Mike Ladman it's better to lose with work we loved than to win with work we hated that's the worst because then you're stuck making something you don't like for the next three or four years with a client you

70:47 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

70:47 Mike Ladman have to keep making something you don't like so if it's a song or a thing you don't like you're gonna have to hear that how many more times around the world with your name attached to it or just to finish the song you know for my world for supervision i only picked music that i like every now and then stuff you know it's not my It's not my favorite thing, but I always try to find something.

71:06 Mike Ladman Because I'm going to hear a song from all the edits of a month. And I'm going to hear that song. thousand times like

71:13 Luke F. Walton Yes.

71:13 Mike Ladman literally you're going to hear it over and over and over and over so uh someone just said something you're sacrificing a song you love for the for the rest of the world because there

71:22 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

71:22 Mike Ladman are a lot of great songs where it's like doing a thing and now it's the thing with elvis now that never got old i did a prince thing i was like man i heard this 5 000 times nothing compares to you and it's still stuck in my head and i'm not mad at it but

71:35 Luke F. Walton Amazing.

71:35 Mike Ladman i think it's the only thing you know is what you like and so ideally people are coming in the room with you to work with you they

71:43 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

71:43 Mike Ladman like your sound they think you have some nugget you know so i think however you show up in the world with that you know is

71:51 Luke F. Walton Well said.

71:51 Mike Ladman the goal

71:52 Luke F. Walton So I end the show every single time in the same way. The show is called Love Music More and the segment is called Love Music Why. Simple question. Why do you love music?

72:06 Mike Ladman I love the feeling I get from music. I think I'm not always great at outwardly expressing emotions sometimes. And I think whenever I don't know how to feel or what I'm feeling, a song can.

72:21 Mike Ladman unlock that for me i think music's the only thing that can do it and i don't always i think again when you don't know why you can hear a song and cry i don't cry but like this is what i you know there's still things not that i'm like oh i don't like macho it's like no i'm not that's a you know thing i'm working on with navigating emotions so i think i love music because there's nothing like that high of hearing a song you've never heard before and i like almost laughing music like what is that you know i'm talking to tell you emotionally but usually i'm finding that thing that could just make me smile and i love sharing that with people

72:50 Mike Ladman uh like finding those nuggets and sharing that that's my favorite thing is it does get old there's always a magic to that why did someone make that how did they make that and that leads me to all the music from around the world that's just kind of seemingly odd at first choice because like why if someone's in a room with expensive tape how did they have access to this studio in this weird country at this time to make this thing and it's like even more relevant now so uh yeah music is

73:19 Mike Ladman that most of music included the best things in the world so yeah they both do the same thing for me they kind of nourish you you know music music tastes good was the name of a podcast I almost started yeah

73:31 Luke F. Walton That's cool. That's a good idea. It could be like a video podcast. You could be sharing a meal.

73:38 Mike Ladman That was that it was actually

73:39 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

73:39 Mike Ladman that that was the whole thing it was him pairing his chef Well, actually sorry, there's a couple of different iterations on his pairing his chef with an artist and having them create together

73:46 Luke F. Walton I love that. That's cool. Nice. It could even be a TV show.

73:51 Mike Ladman that's that's what that's actually the thing that we have there's a pitch deck somewhere from

73:55 Luke F. Walton Hell

73:55 Mike Ladman 10

73:55 Luke F. Walton yeah.

73:56 Mike Ladman years ago but yeah i've been trying to sell it to blue ape well yeah anyways we're trying to figure out a thing

74:01 Luke F. Walton Cool. That sounds awesome. Well, where can people get in touch, follow your playlists? Where's the best kind of way for them to find you online?

74:13 Mike Ladman yeah i'm pretty googleable uh

74:15 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

74:15 Mike Ladman mike ladman la b as in david man uh everything is ladman music one word so instagram all my things there and uh the spotify playlist is ladman music discovery one word uh i it's the same playlist and then just the date changes every week when i update it usually mondays or tuesdays when that happens but it's somewhere within the week but yeah

74:38 Mike Ladman ig linkedin yeah but i'd say probably ig and spotify is where most of this stuff is and it's just usually me sharing music or things that i've done and you know this

74:51 Luke F. Walton Always a pleasure to catch up, man.

74:54 Mike Ladman was a blast that it was like the funnest phone conversation and

74:57 Luke F. Walton Hell

74:57 Mike Ladman yeah

74:57 Luke F. Walton yeah.

74:57 Mike Ladman same thing we created a thing and that's cool and hopefully they'll learn something maybe something different from what i uh we thought

75:05 Luke F. Walton I love that. All right, man. Have a great rest of your night. Appreciate you taking the time.