An Interview with John Michael Rouchell

0:21 Luke F. Walton What's good, everybody? Really excited about this conversation with John Michael Rouchell, Grammy Award winner. We talked all about New Orleans. We talked all about recording and... bringing out the most vive. It was a fascinating, incredible conversation that even took us to Disneyland. But before we get into it, I'd like to introduce our title sponsor, DistroKid.

0:43 Luke F. Walton DistroKid makes music distribution fun and easy with unlimited uploads and artists get to keep 100% of royalties and earnings. And today you can sign up with our special 30% off code to get started. Go to distrokid.com slash VIP slash love music.

0:58 Luke F. Walton music more all one word for 30 off and get your music out there today a million plus artists rely on district kid to get their music onto spotify apple music youtube tiktok title instagram and all of the major streaming services one of my favorite things that i like about is i got a mobile app that i can check my royalties on the go you could download that on ios and android today once again our code district kid.com slash vip slash love

1:23 John Michael Rouchell Music Let's go. for more. Enjoy the episode.

1:34 Luke F. Walton Again, everybody, I'm Scoobert Doobert. Welcome back to Love Music More. I am joined with Grammy Award winning, platinum selling producer, songwriter, composer, John Michael Rouchell. Well,

1:44 John Michael Rouchell What's happening, Scoobert? Thank you for having me, brother. Grateful for you.

1:47 Luke F. Walton it's so good. So good to be chatting. I'm so excited to dig into the unique musical history that is New Orleans.

1:54 John Michael Rouchell Oh, yeah. Hell yeah, dude. Absolutely. The place I call home.

1:58 Luke F. Walton That is the coolest place to call home because I feel like so much of what we conceptualize as American music. is very much rooted in that beautiful mixing pot, the place that so many different cultures came together and created music that is unlike anywhere else on the face of the earth.

2:17 John Michael Rouchell Yeah, 100%, man. I mean, it's a pretty strange and amazing thing to be able to, when people visit New Orleans, to be able to say, okay, do you see this park? It's now called Armstrong Park.

2:29 John Michael Rouchell At one time it was called Congo Square, and it's literally the place where American music was born you know the first American art form jazz you know where you took the rhythms of the Caribbean and the rhythms of Africa and you take sort of traditional you know spiritual melodies you put them on post-civil war band instruments you know snare drums bass drums sousaphones trumpets

2:59 John Michael Rouchell And people start improvising and trying to figure out how to live with each other, and that's that proletarism. It's a pretty beautiful thing to be able to say, look, it happened here, and to be from that place and be the wellspring of so much great music, you know, it's a privilege.

3:15 Luke F. Walton It is. That's incredible. And just, you know, like looking back, I've got a drum kit behind me.

3:20 John Michael Rouchell Hell

3:20 Luke F. Walton And that

3:20 John Michael Rouchell yeah.

3:20 Luke F. Walton didn't start as a drum kit. That started

3:22 John Michael Rouchell No,

3:22 Luke F. Walton as an individual

3:23 John Michael Rouchell sir.

3:23 Luke F. Walton marching instruments. Yes.

3:24 John Michael Rouchell No, sir. That is the second half of the 20th, well, I guess middle of the 20th century invention.

3:31 John Michael Rouchell but yeah you know you'd see the cat with the big bass drum playing a cymbal on top you know bass drum with his right hand the snare drummer walking you know because it was funeral processions you know and like marching bands you know to the military sense and so taking those kind of things also you know you had that fife and drum thing additionally like

3:55 John Michael Rouchell african music you know kind of more the calf skin hand drum kind of thing so yeah that's a it's a funny thing how you know ingenuity and where we end up

4:05 Luke F. Walton but then it ends up feeling like it's always been there you see like oh yeah drum kit like normal

4:09 John Michael Rouchell yeah

4:09 Luke F. Walton instrument it's

4:09 John Michael Rouchell yeah

4:10 Luke F. Walton like yeah that's that's that's not actually that normal that's a combination of a bunch of different instruments that then people figured out how to play at the same time

4:16 John Michael Rouchell for sure i mean and it's it's a pretty wild concept when you think about it like that that somebody's job was just to kind of play you know just you know and then someone's job was to play

4:30 John Michael Rouchell boom boom boom boom boom boom boom boom boom and then you put it all together you know um it's kind of a cool thing some new orleans drummers really have that i love you know i love i love my new orleans musicians especially new orleans drummers i'm biased but they have this magical thing where they can sound like

4:49 John Michael Rouchell You know multiple people at once just through that in you know the understanding of the independence and all that kind of thing It's just so visceral whether it's my friend Alvin Ford jr. Or Terrence Higgins or any of those cats man. They're so good at that. It's a beautiful thing

5:03 Luke F. Walton That is a beautiful thing. And I think you're right to reference the Latin music as part of that with like the clave, the pulse that like, you know, you think about like that, that same idea on a clave player where they're just hitting two. two wooden sticks together but they are in charge of the entire group they are the conductor they are the the one that everyone's dancing to

5:24 John Michael Rouchell 100 i mean the three two clave right so three notes and then two notes you know some people know it as the bo diddly beat obviously george michael's faith but that was a big thing which all comes from the caribbean right

5:41 John Michael Rouchell and by way of Africa so and you know obviously if you're coming to America that's New Orleans was a major port city so a lot of that you know that tradition those traditions those rhythms that kind of patois that rhythmic sense was all kind of just getting mixed up in that town you know

6:02 Luke F. Walton Totally no. And I want to talk briefly because I don't get to talk to people that are as.

6:07 Luke F. Walton as in it as you are about the swing right the way that the swing is conceptualized is you're tying the triplet so there's there's a series of three notes and you're going to tie the last two together and there you go you're swinging um new orleans swing can be very different uh how how do you how does that taught how is it like is it in the water is it in the vibe like how are people thinking about swing

6:32 Luke F. Walton like coming from that musical tradition rather than studying the musical tradition

6:36 John Michael Rouchell For sure. I mean, well, every Saturday or Sunday, you know, you have second line processionals, right, where you're hearing whether it's, you know, celebrating.

6:46 John Michael Rouchell someone's life who just passed away or just celebrating the fact that we made it through another week you know so you hear those rhythms those clave rhythms all those kind of things before talking about swing I think it's important to talk about where we put the emphasis of sort of you know most in American popular music you know the two and the four are sort of the big beats that get emphasis or big one right in funk music

7:12 John Michael Rouchell the big one right in New Orleans music we we put emphasis on the and after four so one and two and three and four and so it's this constantly feeling like you constantly feel like the beat is turning over and like you kind of know it's like kind of this endless hypnotic thing right and

7:40 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

7:40 John Michael Rouchell then yeah swing man it's a part of how we live i mean like it's you know in new world i'm right i'm in los angeles right now but like back

7:48 John Michael Rouchell back home you know it's humid as hell it's hot it's sweaty so people kind of talk a little slower and all those kind of things so when you displace those eighth notes we like a little bit of you know what i mean playing behind the beat we like kind of displacing things a little bit just to make it feel because i think it's just natural to the environment you

8:09 Luke F. Walton Yes,

8:09 John Michael Rouchell know what i mean like

8:09 Luke F. Walton I

8:09 John Michael Rouchell i think it's

8:10 Luke F. Walton get it.

8:10 John Michael Rouchell natural to the space that you're living in just the same way that like If you're going to a beach in California, you know, certain things feel a certain way and surf music sounds that kind of way. You know what I mean? Like, I think it's a reflection of. your existence as a human which is you

8:24 Luke F. Walton yes

8:24 John Michael Rouchell know that kind

8:25 Luke F. Walton well

8:25 John Michael Rouchell of thing um

8:25 Luke F. Walton it's like how like Coltrane sounds so New York or you

8:28 John Michael Rouchell yeah

8:29 Luke F. Walton know it's just like that uptown energy it's like it's it's about to like rip through the speakers in a totally different way than New Orleans music or or like Snoop Dogg or something you know it just hey

8:41 John Michael Rouchell no

8:41 Luke F. Walton man

8:41 John Michael Rouchell those

8:41 Luke F. Walton that

8:42 John Michael Rouchell dr

8:42 Luke F. Walton feels

8:42 John Michael Rouchell dre

8:42 Luke F. Walton like

8:42 John Michael Rouchell records feel so california to me right like those bait that bass out like whether it's the hyphy stuff or the dre stuff or all those kind of things like it couldn't be because you have this car culture right in california

8:55 Luke F. Walton Yep.

8:56 John Michael Rouchell you think about like all those kind of low riders like that kind of music you get all that kind of stuff you get the funk of the 70s and 80s right and so all that stuff's happening and that gets into everything man i mean like we all grew up listening to meter records the crazy thing too was is when i was young like

9:14 John Michael Rouchell you know i was born in 85 so like i'm coming of age in the 90s and it you know we would go to like sock hops or whatever like these kind of little things that you know you do when you're like 10 12 years old and we this was like the the last gasp of regional hits you

9:31 Luke F. Walton Okay.

9:31 John Michael Rouchell know Yeah. like we had bounce records and like hip-hop like our indigenous music you know miami has like miami bass you know the bay has like hyphy stuff

9:40 John Michael Rouchell different people have different things drill in chicago like we had bounce music or have bounce music right and so we had a lot of stuff that felt like i thought they were hits all across america and then when i moved to new york i was like oh yeah like y'all know dj jubilee and all these things they're like what and so it's kind of that was like i think it's important to remember that like you

10:02 John Michael Rouchell music is to be played and to be to exist within its within the confines of where it is being created now we're sitting here talking over zoom and so a lot of music now feels like it is being created within the context of the internet right and so i think it's really important for us to think about that idea like what is the set and setting to use a ken kesey kind of a little bit more of a drug reference

10:29 John Michael Rouchell but you know that kind of idea of like who's making this where are they from where are they currently making it how does that all get into the music you know what I mean and like have the music be a reflection of the place and space that is being created in you know David

10:45 Luke F. Walton Yes, in the venue that it's ultimately like being made for.

10:50 John Michael Rouchell Burns how music works

10:51 Luke F. Walton Yeah,

10:51 John Michael Rouchell man you

10:51 Luke F. Walton man, it's a good book.

10:52 John Michael Rouchell read that book well

10:53 Luke F. Walton I read that book.

10:54 John Michael Rouchell Well done.

10:55 Luke F. Walton You know, create a little creative borrowing.

10:57 John Michael Rouchell Yeah. No, look, I'm a thief, man. So like, yeah, for those that don't know, I thoroughly recommend David Byrne, the singer of the Talking Heads, wrote this incredible book called How Music Works.

11:09 John Michael Rouchell And the basic premise of the book is instead of thinking about uh the artist as this tortured soul sort of looking up into the stars from the gutter and you know crying out his plea right it's much more of a idea that his theory is instead of that

11:29 John Michael Rouchell um artists analyze their environment first and then create you know the New Orleans example that he uses is like Wynton Marsalis plays jazz the Rebirth Brass Band play jazz but because Wynton Marsalis spends his time in Lincoln Center where it's like very reverberant he's going to play like longer notes legato stuff right whereas Rebirth is playing on the maple leaf bar which is like almost like a CBGBs tiny little club right so it's much more up-tempo

11:55 John Michael Rouchell much a lot more notes a lot more aggressive anyway for those listening at home i thoroughly recommend that's that should be on number one on your music book reading list it's an incredible incredible book hell

12:07 Luke F. Walton I agree and it very much like kind of inspired why I'm even doing this podcast because it was that

12:12 John Michael Rouchell yeah

12:12 Luke F. Walton that moment of like there's more there are more of those little aha things that just don't get talked about in music because we don't we don't really spend the time we're We're too busy working or practicing or trying to get the next gig or whatever just having that moment that hour-long conversation with somebody that's that's doing it

12:28 Luke F. Walton I feel like you can discover so many more of those little things just like I feel

12:32 John Michael Rouchell 100%.

12:32 Luke F. Walton like I already have discovered

12:33 John Michael Rouchell Oh man,

12:33 Luke F. Walton so much

12:34 John Michael Rouchell cool.

12:34 Luke F. Walton awesome good

12:34 John Michael Rouchell I'm having fun screwing through your

12:36 Luke F. Walton I'm

12:36 John Michael Rouchell vibe,

12:36 Luke F. Walton glad

12:37 John Michael Rouchell brother.

12:37 Luke F. Walton I hope the listeners are too so I want to I want to speak on Tiana's Bayou Adventure now because taking all of this energy this lifetime of learning and then now you have the client of freaking Disneyland where it's not a new ride it is a reimagining and an elevation of a ride that has existed for 30 years in

13:04 John Michael Rouchell Yeah

13:13 Luke F. Walton all around the world are going to experience this ride and then therefore experience New Orleans style music and also satisfy the people that you know have been going on Splash Mountain for 30 years how did that feel how did you get that contract like take me to the very beginning that that before you even write a single note

13:34 John Michael Rouchell Oh, well, yeah. Well, there wasn't much writing to begin Okay, with. cool. And like first credit, credit where credit's due.

13:40 John Michael Rouchell Yes. I was brought on to that project. uh by Terrence Blanchard uh the you know Oscar nominated composer Grammy winner unbelievable the maestro I so when I I had sort of a strange way of getting into Terrence's world I I at one point was going to leave entertainment I went and got my MBA because I was like so fried I had like one of those moments where I was like God if I do another 3 a.m hip-hop session or you know

14:10 John Michael Rouchell another writing session with a 17 year old tiktoker who doesn't know who they are let you know i still if you don't know who you are i can't get you to the speakers kind of thing

14:18 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

14:18 John Michael Rouchell and so coming out of uh the nba i was like i'm ready to leave the pirate ship and everybody's like you're a pirate go back to the pirate ship and so uh the first person i called was one of the first people i called was robin burgess terrence's partner and wife and manager and i just said look

14:36 John Michael Rouchell you know i'm going to come back to entertainment but i got to do this differently you guys have conquered film music and music for media and all those kind of things and whatever i can do you know and so they were awesome and they were very welcoming we spent a good bit of time where i was earning their trust in a lot of ways so all credit to them for bringing me on without them i'm not involved in that project that said that project was

15:01 John Michael Rouchell uh it was daunting okay because to your point everybody knows splash mountain man everybody loves splash mountain everybody has their opinion about splash mountain and generally speaking people don't like change right like

15:16 Luke F. Walton Yeah, yeah.

15:16 John Michael Rouchell change is usually uncomfortable right and so uh it kind of starts there and then You know, what was so nice, though, was to meet John Dennis, who's an incredible creative executive over at Imagineering at Disney.

15:33 John Michael Rouchell and you know basically to say like look i'm at your service you are our client whatever i can do to delight you etc and he was his whole thing was he was so brave and cool and he was just like look we've hired you guys because you all know the the real stuff and like the magic of this and he's like i'll tell you when you're out of bounds which was like the best thing on planet earth to hear right and so the goal of it was like all right we have like tunes

15:58 John Michael Rouchell Tunes from the film Princess and the Frog, right, of which Terrence was played all the trumpet parts for Louis, right, the alligator kind of thing. And so we had some of these Randy Newman tunes we had and then we also we went and found a bunch of like I had to do a lot of digging Terrence did a lot of digging of like old public domain traditional jazz music from like the 20s

16:22 Luke F. Walton How'd

16:22 John Michael Rouchell right

16:22 Luke F. Walton you go about that? How'd you go about that library card or stuff?

16:24 John Michael Rouchell man

16:24 Luke F. Walton How

16:25 John Michael Rouchell yeah

16:25 Luke F. Walton are you? How are you? Yeah

16:26 John Michael Rouchell i mean you know life of the author plus 70 years right see in the circle and then kind of going back and going okay like do we want to do basin street blues do we want to do you know all these kind of tunes and fortunately i mean a lot of that music is now in the public domain and additionally like kind of ripe to be told again right

16:46 Luke F. Walton Yeah,

16:47 John Michael Rouchell to

16:47 Luke F. Walton right.

16:47 John Michael Rouchell have a new spin being told on it terence was such a brilliant like you know to me he was like directing the film in a lot of ways right like he would say like he would say something like hey man dirty does in brass band

17:01 John Michael Rouchell uh the meter song they all asked for you which is also a cole porter melody which i think why it works so well and i was like dirty dozen doing them and then sure enough it was like oh this is absolute math you know like it was just one of those weeks where like everybody really kind of bought into the vision of this thing we all kind of realized that this was an opportunity to be stewards not only for our city

17:26 John Michael Rouchell But like for a tradition that's been going on additionally to be to make something deeply important, you know, my daughter is seven years old and,

17:33 Luke F. Walton Oh,

17:34 John Michael Rouchell you know, to be able to do that for her and for all, you know, and to do this for a property which is the first African-American princess, I think is really important.

17:44 Luke F. Walton yeah.

17:46 John Michael Rouchell and so it was you know it was very much a dutiful and like it was a lot of pressure but

17:51 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

17:51 John Michael Rouchell that said once we got into the studio I think everybody kind of felt that gravity and like it was fun man like we had a freaking blast it was like people were just I think people really really met the moment and so like it was a lot of work to get there and it was great it was great to speak to people like you know uh

18:11 John Michael Rouchell uh uncle charlie from preservation hall you know like he was alive back in the day and he was like oh man no we're not doing that song and i was like oh why he's like nope nope

18:21 John Michael Rouchell he's like that doesn't reflect the thing so there was so much like great like disney has this like brand you know protect there's this you know the ride all these kind of things additionally to get constantly these conversations amongst musicians with the authenticity of like yeah but that has a sub you know it's got a meaning you don't actually want you know what i mean or like and so there was just this meaning of it was beautiful man

18:43 Luke F. Walton So what was the recording process like?

18:46 John Michael Rouchell It was in two or three chunks and I think they were about a week each, you know, and like the first week was great, man. I mean, it was like.

18:53 John Michael Rouchell the best of the best players you know and terrence that the coolest part for me and you know for greg hayes who's been in terrence's world incredible engineer and mixer you know it's constantly he's doing all kind of film scores and all these like i just took my daughter to go see lilo and stitch and of course greg recorded and mixed it like greg's a monster but like for greg who's like been with t for a while you know like

19:19 John Michael Rouchell like we've never heard t play that like old lewis armstrong stuff like that pop stuff because t's like constantly living in the future you

19:27 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

19:28 John Michael Rouchell know he's like all right cool where can we take this we're here today where can we take this for tomorrow

19:32 Luke F. Walton Yes.

19:32 John Michael Rouchell where can we continue this legacy like he's much more in the legacy of like you know i mean it's all goes back to new orleans etc but he i think he thinks of himself in that legacy of you know miles herbie he plays with herbie you know like pushing jazz forward and

19:48 Luke F. Walton Right.

19:49 John Michael Rouchell so to be able to hear him playing that stuff man i was like a little kid man i'd never heard that stuff before man you know so that was like to hear him play basin street blues or to hear him play you know uh we did like a version of little lies of jane where he's like taking just

20:08 John Michael Rouchell taking solos on the end like oh man it was crazy it was crazy and then we had a bunch of different things we did you know there was a Haitian group which did like rah-rah music which I had no idea what rah-rah music was and

20:22 Luke F. Walton I don't know that. I don't think I'm familiar either.

20:24 John Michael Rouchell yeah it was cool and so like John Dennis from Disney was like yeah man here you got to learn about Haitian rah-rah music I'm like okay I'm

20:30 Luke F. Walton I guess I do too. Yeah, hell yeah.

20:32 John Michael Rouchell in the band now you know

20:35 Luke F. Walton I love you. I've got some big news everybody. My vinyl record is out. We didn't make a ton of these so these guys are gonna sell out and I'd love for you to get your hands on one of them because they're so dope.

20:52 Luke F. Walton or visit bird.pizza or check out my Instagram for a link or click the link in the show notes or the bio or wherever you're watching this to pick up your copy. You know, they're going to sell out. We really did not make very many of these and I want you to have it. It's like a collector's item.

21:19 Luke F. Walton So thank you. Thank you for supporting my music and I can't wait for you to hear it actually on physical vinyl. Enjoy the rest of the episode.

21:27 John Michael Rouchell and so learning about that was incredible and additionally like the crazy thing about Imagineering and those rides if you've ever been I'm sure you've had this experience where you've been to a music festival and you're looking at one stage but you can hear another

21:40 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

21:40 John Michael Rouchell stage and

21:41 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

21:41 John Michael Rouchell that's like you know entertainment death right like you can't it's like such a buzzkill and so they've got to think about that

21:50 John Michael Rouchell on each of these rides and so like the stuff so there was like the the queue line music which was like gonna play like a radio play so we didn't have to worry about any of that stuff but then the things in the ride

22:02 John Michael Rouchell all had to be able to play at the same time and talk to each other rhythmically as well as key changes like all these things it was like and so it became this really weird math problem um but you know now that i've gone through it once i feel like i i'm like now i get

22:19 Luke F. Walton Yeah,

22:19 John Michael Rouchell it you know what i mean

22:20 Luke F. Walton yeah, I know what you mean.

22:22 John Michael Rouchell But so it was this really interesting, unlike anything I've ever done before, and all credit to John Dennis and the Disney squad, Robin, all them, Sarita, Carmen, they were so Ted, they were all so warm and so just partners, you know what I mean? Like everybody was getting in the boat and rowing. There was no like, we are, you know, Disney, you are the, we were.

22:46 John Michael Rouchell we were hanging man additionally was august in new orleans man it's hot as hell so it was like we were getting sweaty we were you know what i mean we were in there bro like we were in there there was no you know what i mean like

23:01 Luke F. Walton visceral

23:02 John Michael Rouchell yeah visceral

23:02 Luke F. Walton human yes

23:03 John Michael Rouchell boy and the the ac went out like on the third or fourth day in the studio

23:08 Luke F. Walton of course

23:08 John Michael Rouchell it was like hell yeah dude let's go you know what i mean like absolutely

23:12 Luke F. Walton meant to be we're

23:13 John Michael Rouchell absolutely

23:13 Luke F. Walton not supposed to be comfortable yes um

23:15 John Michael Rouchell man this is you know we're gonna we're gonna make it we're gonna make it feel real by hook or by crook you know what i'm saying like yeah Anyway.

23:23 Luke F. Walton And it is that is kind of a crazy thing to do to make music for a ride in by nature, you can't experience it, you have to just like, lean under the people's expertise and do your best. But it also does make sense that once you can feel it in the venue, it's like, it's like mixing music for a movie theater.

23:43 John Michael Rouchell Yeah.

23:43 Luke F. Walton it's like i'd really like to hear it in the movie theater while i'm mixing

23:47 John Michael Rouchell Yeah.

23:47 Luke F. Walton or at least get like a dry run i don't want to just send it off and be like hope it sounds good which i've had to do before

23:53 John Michael Rouchell Yeah, there's a woman named Robin who's an incredible, incredible audio engineer. And she, you know, she really was the person who could explain to us like, okay, because, you know, it's like this particular, you know, a thousand point speaker system.

24:08 Luke F. Walton Wow.

24:08 John Michael Rouchell like a thousand point not you know people have 5.1 systems

24:12 Luke F. Walton like Yeah.

24:13 John Michael Rouchell a thousand point one you know or however Yeah, many sub

24:15 Luke F. Walton right.

24:16 John Michael Rouchell things and she was like no each thing has to be able to be isolatable and stemmable right so there's no mixing really the

24:25 Luke F. Walton Wow.

24:41 John Michael Rouchell audio bleed standpoint these are all dudes in the in the congregation of a church right big room horns drums i mean the most latin you know everything's getting into everything and i see robin across the thing but this was also like we were kind of protecting each other you know i could see robin kind of freaking out and so i pulled greg hayes aside i'm like bro robin is gonna trip and she's gonna want all these

25:06 John Michael Rouchell you know all the brass band dudes would be in iso booths but if we do that we're gonna lose the feeling and these dudes don't you know they don't play like that these people you know and

25:15 Luke F. Walton Sure.

25:15 John Michael Rouchell so like we have to figure out a way and greg of course was so awesome he was like no listen how much isolation we have i was like okay can we show her so that she calms down you know what i mean

25:24 Luke F. Walton Smart,

25:24 John Michael Rouchell and so

25:25 Luke F. Walton smart,

25:25 John Michael Rouchell we were all like very much just taking care of each other and i think that was just like once again that dutiful feeling of like everybody like all right All right, this is an incredible opportunity.

25:35 John Michael Rouchell Like, let's make sure that everybody who's, and, you know, this is a credit to John and Terrence, like everybody who got on board with this thing was like completely bought in and completely looking out for the next person.

25:46 John Michael Rouchell And to the point of like New Orleans music, you know, like people from different backgrounds, different cultures, different instruments, different things working together in a pluralistic idea towards a common goal.

25:58 John Michael Rouchell you know it's it really is an exemplary thing of what not only what new orleans is but what like american ingenuity and what i think disney is too you know what i mean like it's kind of a beautiful and to be a part of that was just absolute magic for lack of a better term

26:18 Luke F. Walton culture that you can feel that you can experience that is like again visceral ground level people

26:23 John Michael Rouchell Yeah.

26:23 Luke F. Walton americans are awesome you know i don't know i think that there's it's a it's a it's a tough time to say that but i think that as a people uh this is a this is a cool place we make a lot of cool things yeah

26:36 John Michael Rouchell Hell yeah. And I mean, I think, look, man, when we get in a room, you know, and when we can like. all make something together whether it's like a meal or music

26:46 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

26:46 John Michael Rouchell or whatever it's funny how uh how all that other stuff kind of falls away man you know we have the the technological convenience to live this very isolated life you know but if anything growing up in new orleans has taught me and music in general man like

27:05 John Michael Rouchell you know what I mean getting in rooms with people from different cultures different backgrounds is everything man it taught me everything about what it is to be a human you know so it's like love music more man love people more man you know what I'm saying like get in rooms man like collaborate like yes we do have the power to completely produce mix master record music by yourself and like look

27:29 John Michael Rouchell if you if you're Prince like God bless you know what I'm saying like if you could do that like that's awesome but like for most of us man the magic is in between the spaces you know in the middle of the room man and so like that ride was such a and that project was such a beautiful you know led by Terrence and led by John Dennis and like

27:53 John Michael Rouchell that you know the magic is among us not you know not over here or over there you know what i mean i

28:01 Luke F. Walton I think that might be a place that music ends up circling back to. There are, there's

28:08 John Michael Rouchell hope so i

28:09 Luke F. Walton murmurs.

28:11 John Michael Rouchell hope so i mean look man you know at the end of the day like even before you know recorded music the thing that we're talking about is a hundred year old medium right

28:21 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

28:22 John Michael Rouchell but even before that in greek ancient greek times we were getting together drinking ambrosia listening to lutes and trying to procreate you know what i mean like getting high dancing and having a good time you know what i mean and like that's the thing i just hope

28:43 John Michael Rouchell that's the the rebellion of the moment that i hope happens is like people getting in spaces and like like you know i saw man did you see you know that band turnstile you know turnstile man seeing that that thing that they did in baltimore man where people jump like that was the most inspiring thing i've seen in a year because i was like this is sick i mean granted i'm a you know i'm a 90s baby so like seeing

29:08 John Michael Rouchell like circle pits and people jumping off the stage and all that shit was like that was incredible to me but like i was like look at this it's people in a space like you know what i mean like uh that felt so invigorating man coming off of the last you know the covid stuff and all these kind of you know what i mean like it was so refreshing man

29:29 Luke F. Walton Yeah. I want to circle back to something you said. About the recording studio or the recording experience of they don't play like that so I think that's that's a good because

29:41 Luke F. Walton i have seen that so many times especially in really young musicians careers where say that they you know play as a band or they are playing dive bars or whatever and then all of a sudden no we're going track by track you're playing to a click you're in an unfamiliar environment

29:55 John Michael Rouchell i'm shaking my head because that that drives me absolutely crazy look as a fellow like person who engineers records produces records tech geek we could talk talk plugins we can talk compression whatever you want to do we can do all of it i can we could talk about the magic of 800 hertz and an electric bass right or whatever you want to do like i

30:16 Luke F. Walton Bookmark.

30:17 John Michael Rouchell yeah you know what i mean or whatever like you know what i mean we could do this for all of it but like it drives me absolutely crazy when technicians

30:29 John Michael Rouchell take over how art is made like so much of what I do as a producer man is like trying to get people to make music the way that they make music and capture it right it's like to me the job is not to

30:43 John Michael Rouchell up songs mix done no the job is to capture magic man and so it's like you know my friend jameson ross like i got to you know i had the privilege of producing his record and then shortly after you know his record we had a song that went top 20 us r&b number one on the uk soul charts like it did really great it was the number one us indie r&b song did awesome and then we basically quickly went and worked on Avery*Sunshine's record which we won

31:09 John Michael Rouchell the Grammy for for best progressive R&B but like with Jameson he's a drummer and a singer right and so like he was like yeah man like of course he's a talented dude he got signed to concord which you know talented people go on jazz labels that's what they do and then they make you sing standards or like sit

31:27 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

31:27 John Michael Rouchell down in a piano to write i'm like why are we doing that that's ridiculous you're like a soulful dude who grew up in church who grew up in florida like play something man like get a groove going and then let's write on top of that like what do you mean and he's like

31:41 John Michael Rouchell he's like you can do that i'm like yeah absolutely like bend the world to you and so it's like in that moment i had enough empathy to say okay this brass band if we isolate them in sort of iso booths robin

31:55 Luke F. Walton Yep.

31:56 John Michael Rouchell the technician will get everything she wants but we'll lose the magic how do we make sure that we can make a win-win for both things right because ultimately it's like if

32:06 John Michael Rouchell if it's all tech no one's gonna care then like everybody's like yeah we did our job

32:12 Luke F. Walton Yep.

32:12 John Michael Rouchell but like who cares you

32:13 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

32:14 John Michael Rouchell know what i mean um so i think so much of what i try to do as a producer and as a songwriter and just as a creative is like start with you start with the thing start with the artist like how do you operate like if you're a violinist why are you picking up a guitar to write you know what i mean if you're a keyboard player

32:31 John Michael Rouchell you know why you know that was another thing someone was like yeah i need to learn how to program or this that and the third and i'm a singer i'm like man there are plugins that can turn your vocal into midi sing

32:42 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

32:43 John Michael Rouchell the parts like you know what i mean like bend the world to you and so like i think because that's just where i think the magic is man

32:50 Luke F. Walton I also think that that speaks volumes in terms of when people want to make their own music.

32:56 Luke F. Walton they often don't know to what degree they need to do that like for for example with the singer just get out all the ideas that you have and nothing more and

33:07 John Michael Rouchell 100%.

33:08 Luke F. Walton then hire somebody that can fill in those gaps or collaborate with somebody or start a band or something that's what other people are there for you don't have to take on the entire world all at once but at the same time you don't have to hold yourself back and not input your ideas if like

33:23 John Michael Rouchell yeah

33:24 Luke F. Walton even if they're crude even if they're rough some of the coolest like drum parts some of the coolest guitar parts come from people that don't actually play those instruments they just have a vision

33:31 John Michael Rouchell hell like no one no modern drummer magazine is ever going to say like stevie wonder is the coldest drummer man stevie wonder is one of the coldest drummers of all time

33:41 John Michael Rouchell you know what i mean like but it's it's because of those limitations it's because of

33:46 Luke F. Walton Yep.

33:46 John Michael Rouchell that specificity so like i feel it both ways it's like yeah like if you need a killing guitar part and you're not a killing guitar player there's plenty of people who can do that and let's get them in the room and make the magic in the middle of it if the goal of what we're trying to do for recording is is like this really intimate portrait of like the flaws and all those kind of things because that's where we feel like this thing's really going to vibrate like

34:06 John Michael Rouchell it's great that you can't play guitar like that's gonna be sick you know what I mean

34:10 Luke F. Walton Right,

34:10 John Michael Rouchell like

34:11 Luke F. Walton right.

34:11 John Michael Rouchell so I kind of think of it like that it's like what are we actually trying to do because I know at the end of the day like when we make a recording right we can either focus on the process of making it and try to make that as good as possible or we could focus on the outcome and unfortunately if we focus on the outcome

34:31 John Michael Rouchell we aren't going to be able to be in everybody's room when they hit play and say oh you know but the bass player no it's either like it is or it ain't you

34:42 Luke F. Walton Mm-hmm.

34:43 John Michael Rouchell know what i mean and so much of what i'm trying to do in my creative life is make sure that like we're getting the thing to communicate what it is that we're trying to communicate as best as possible because once it's there i

34:58 John Michael Rouchell whether someone likes it or not that's out of my control you know what i mean but like as long as we know that we're getting to the goal and the goal and the magic is getting to the speakers that's all we can do man

35:11 Luke F. Walton I also think that musicians... especially when you've been working on a record for a long time you think and listen very zoomed in and most people when they listen to a record it just smacks them like a like a wave at the beach it's unexpected

35:23 John Michael Rouchell man i talk about this all the time like do you know do you know what percentage of motowns uh of those like early motown records what percentage of those vocals were the demo

35:35 Luke F. Walton Oh, no, that's a good, I'd see where you're going though, but I do not know.

35:39 John Michael Rouchell 70% 70

35:40 Luke F. Walton 70%.

35:40 John Michael Rouchell % okay so like it drives me crazy like in the best of ways like I love my singers right I love my musicians but like if we don't if we don't get something within five to eight takes You either don't know the song, right?

36:00 Luke F. Walton Yep.

36:02 John Michael Rouchell Or you're unprepared or something's off and let's just come back to it because it's like.

36:09 John Michael Rouchell I just don't think I mean granted there's obvious examples to the contrary right like Charlie Chaplin with his films like doing a thousand takes he's very looking for this specific thing you

36:18 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

36:18 John Michael Rouchell know the David Fincher like

36:19 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

36:20 John Michael Rouchell I need this drop of water to hit exact which is great that's well and good but for me with regard to music

36:27 John Michael Rouchell I think that there's this one little moment that happens where like someone's learning a song, they're

36:32 Luke F. Walton Yep.

36:32 John Michael Rouchell learning a song, their analytical mind hasn't quite taken over, they've learned the song, their analytical mind isn't on, that's usually where it happens.

36:40 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

36:40 John Michael Rouchell And then their analytical mind takes over and then the magic zapped.

36:44 Luke F. Walton Yep.

36:45 John Michael Rouchell And like, it's happened, this has happened to me 20 plus times in my life where incredible singers.

36:53 John Michael Rouchell you know take three take four i'm like cool i got everything i need sing it a couple more times and they kind of look at me like i'm an asshole like oh there's he's trying to just and they'll be like yeah take 15 let me hear that and they're like oh and

37:27 Luke F. Walton Yep.

37:27 John Michael Rouchell usually in that moment because they want to please people they'll say oh well let me do five more takes right as opposed to having someone there that was like oh i got the goosebumps on take four like go back and listen to take four and usually what happens is they listen to it and they say oh if i just punch this this this and it's like yeah we already have that from take five six seven

37:50 Luke F. Walton Yeah, yeah,

37:51 John Michael Rouchell you know what i mean there's

37:52 Luke F. Walton yep,

37:53 John Michael Rouchell this unconscious thing

37:54 Luke F. Walton yep,

37:54 John Michael Rouchell uh that like i think we're all like at least for me and my favorite records All have is this kind of moment of discovery and

38:02 Luke F. Walton Yeah, yes.

38:03 John Michael Rouchell if you can capture that on tape, that's not that's the magic man

38:07 Luke F. Walton I agree. I try to not demo for a lot of things for that very reason.

38:13 John Michael Rouchell Demo itis is real boy

38:15 Luke F. Walton And so it's like might as well write the part and record the part at the same time and there it is and it's done. And you're right, it's right at that point of.

38:24 Luke F. Walton of like oh i i did something i didn't expect or the phrasing was slightly different than if i thought about it or whatever and that's the part that's going to go on the record because it moves me it takes you somewhere yeah i'll listen back it elevates way above the one that's highly technical or whatever um

38:40 John Michael Rouchell And

38:40 Luke F. Walton yes

38:40 John Michael Rouchell here's the secret,

38:41 Luke F. Walton yep

38:41 John Michael Rouchell dude. That's someone revealing themselves.

38:44 Luke F. Walton yeah yeah

38:45 John Michael Rouchell And

38:46 Luke F. Walton yeah right

38:46 John Michael Rouchell really at the end of the day, what people want. is to say because your job as a musician really is to hold up a mirror to the world and say do you see yourself in this right and you're supposed to be that mirror right and that's the scary thing for most musicians because they want to hide behind technique they want to hide behind all those things that's armor but

39:06 Luke F. Walton and it's also

39:06 John Michael Rouchell really

39:06 Luke F. Walton sometimes scary

39:07 John Michael Rouchell we should

39:07 Luke F. Walton to

39:07 John Michael Rouchell be

39:07 Luke F. Walton do

39:07 John Michael Rouchell putting

39:07 Luke F. Walton that

39:08 John Michael Rouchell that

39:08 Luke F. Walton in

39:08 John Michael Rouchell one

39:08 Luke F. Walton front

39:08 John Michael Rouchell oh

39:08 Luke F. Walton of other people like in the wrong

39:10 John Michael Rouchell yeah

39:10 Luke F. Walton place or

39:10 John Michael Rouchell scary

39:10 Luke F. Walton in the wrong situation or whatever yeah yeah

39:13 John Michael Rouchell But that's what we're all looking for man.

39:17 Luke F. Walton Yep. Sorry to interrupt this very important broadcast, but it's time for one more advertisement for myself for this podcast. What I'm asking for is for you to rate it five stars, share it with your friends. This is like the most important thing for this podcast to grow. So if you want to do this, you go into the podcast screen, right? You click on the dot dot dot on Spotify.

39:36 Luke F. Walton Under there it says rate show and you go and you click it. Five stars. If you could do that for me, that's the best way for the algorithms and all that stuff to share it out with the world.

39:44 Luke F. Walton I know that it's a lot to ask, but if you could please, please, please, just please just hit those three dots and then a five star would really help us out and helps us, you know, get the get the word out and spread the love of music. So thank you. If you're listening on YouTube, you know what to do. Like, subscribe, all that good stuff. Thank you so much. And here's the rest of the episode.

40:01 John Michael Rouchell That's what we all want.

40:03 Luke F. Walton And one thing that I've had happen to me a few times, and I try really hard to either coach the vocalist that I've worked with or try to do this myself, is often as possible, don't stop the take halfway through just because you

40:16 John Michael Rouchell Never.

40:16 Luke F. Walton weren't quite feeling it.

40:17 John Michael Rouchell Never. Oh my God.

40:21 Luke F. Walton It's

40:21 John Michael Rouchell There's

40:21 Luke F. Walton so frustrating.

40:22 John Michael Rouchell so many good things that get lost. Oh, sorry. You know what I mean?

40:28 Luke F. Walton No, keep going. What are you doing?

40:30 John Michael Rouchell yeah man it's a spell it's

40:32 Luke F. Walton Oh,

40:33 John Michael Rouchell a spell there's a reason why on film sets somebody else yells cut not the actors there's

40:37 Luke F. Walton that's good. That's good. Yes.

40:39 John Michael Rouchell a reason that's by design you know what i mean because like that's not their job it's not their job to pick takes you know what i mean like because i don't think most people know really what they are how they make people feel and you know i know that like Because I came up producing and stuff like I was sort of like.

41:02 John Michael Rouchell towards the end of the sort of 20th century production thing right where you like really learn the stuff you go in the studio you play right

41:08 Luke F. Walton Yep.

41:09 John Michael Rouchell and like i had to learn how to program learn how to do all those things along the way because that was just happening but like to me i just think that there's something so beautiful about objectivity and i know that that's like become an antiquated thing oh these producers blah blah blah but like at the end of the day

41:28 John Michael Rouchell don't you want to have someone who's your first audience member tell you whether the audience is going to like it you

41:34 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

41:35 John Michael Rouchell know what i mean and if you can really trust someone in that moment and really build that trust that's like that's when good things happen man is like when someone's like all right cool let's go you know i'll be wide open if you think it's you know what i mean like that i don't know i come from that school so yeah i cannot stand when people Oh, I'm sorry. No, no. Like we were all, yeah, you know, keep going. Yeah.

42:05 Luke F. Walton And the point that I want to jump off on that and make is that it doesn't have to necessarily be a traditional player, producer, mix engineer, whatever. I have three. It's Sam, the guy that we were talking about

42:19 John Michael Rouchell Yeah,

42:19 Luke F. Walton before,

42:20 John Michael Rouchell yeah, yeah.

42:20 Luke F. Walton James.

42:20 John Michael Rouchell Sweetheart.

42:22 Luke F. Walton i have riley who is my mastering engineer and then i have grizz who does my album art any of those three people can tell me like this sucks or and if

42:34 John Michael Rouchell Yeah.

42:34 Luke F. Walton any of the three do i don't release it and like each of them has probably done like one or two songs and out of the hundreds that i've made you know so it's not it's not a time but they they perfectly they are my bar and if it doesn't meet that bar like it's like all right that's fine i trust you like i know that yeah

42:53 John Michael Rouchell Yeah, man, it's important. You know, I mean, in this world, you know, you think about the art world, right? And you think about gallerists. Like, what if I told, you know, basically, here's the business model of painter and gallerist. It's 50-50.

43:09 John Michael Rouchell when a painting sells now for us in the music industry we're like whoa that's like a big percentage right but it's like but part of the job of those gallerists is to say like this is what's going to sell this

43:21 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

43:22 John Michael Rouchell is what's going to work you know what i mean like that's incredibly important you know and so having been on both sides of it having been a performer and songwriter and all those kind of things like i and this goes to that thing to your point of object objective thing i'm so glad you have your village of people like for me as an artist like when i back in the day You know, I would sit up at night thinking, wishing,

43:50 John Michael Rouchell hoping, praying that someone would walk through the door to be that objective voice for me, like never really got my person, you know, and then it took me so much like I spent so much time thinking about what I would want them to be, what

44:02 Luke F. Walton Yeah

44:03 John Michael Rouchell I would want them to say, what I would want them to do, what I would want them to think about, what I would want them to value that it actually that negative space became like a three dimensional object, and I just filled it. I just became that for

44:14 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

44:14 John Michael Rouchell other people.

44:15 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

44:15 John Michael Rouchell You know what I mean?

44:16 Luke F. Walton Right.

44:16 John Michael Rouchell And so like, to me. you know i can't i know that everybody's like looking for the the game-changing secret sauce plug-in that's gonna man to me it's about people man it's about community it's about trust it's about like collaboration it's about like getting together and making stuff and like sweating on each other and like making mistakes and you know doing rad shit you know more than it's about like some You know

44:47 John Michael Rouchell TikTok real or something. You know what I mean?

44:50 Luke F. Walton and growing together everybody

44:51 John Michael Rouchell Hell yeah, dude

44:53 Luke F. Walton wants somebody higher on the ladder to like reach their hand down and pull them up and sometimes that does happen but i don't know it's fun climbing the ladder with other people and then because then you look over and you see them on the ladder next to you and go like man like look how far we came we both kind of did that together like like my the guy that does my illustrations like

45:13 Luke F. Walton I have loved watching how his artistry and his arc and his, like, his vocabulary as, as he doesn't, he doesn't just work with, with me. And that's, that makes me really happy because I'm watching his career grow and spread

45:31 John Michael Rouchell Mm

45:31 Luke F. Walton and

45:31 John Michael Rouchell -hmm.

45:31 Luke F. Walton widen and we've made so much together over like. like five years now and that's

45:38 John Michael Rouchell Beautiful.

45:38 Luke F. Walton cool man like even people in their day jobs like they leave companies like every one to two years like a lot of my friends so they they just kind of lack this experience of creating something with the team with people growing together changing and challenging when i reflect on success and like yeah i don't have a lot of money from music or whatever but it is uh success A big part of that success, too,

46:03 Luke F. Walton is just that feeling of growing together, growing as community, growing as a team, a unit, collaborators.

46:11 John Michael Rouchell 150 percent man i you know it's a communal art form it just is man and

46:16 Luke F. Walton Yep.

46:16 John Michael Rouchell like i you know i don't know whether it's the end of the empire or whatever but we're in a very selfish time you know and i think like the thing that's gonna break us through like you know

46:29 John Michael Rouchell scenes were important at one time you know and like bands playing in the same city and like kind of growing together all that kind

46:35 Luke F. Walton Yes,

46:35 John Michael Rouchell of stuff that

46:36 Luke F. Walton yes,

46:36 John Michael Rouchell was important yeah. man and you could create sort of the primary color facsimile of that in different ways right whether it's to your point like that kind of almost creative agency setup you know like that where everybody's kind of got a different role and we're all growing together kind of thing or whether it's different people competing against each other or different people in within

46:56 John Michael Rouchell within a band competing with each other you know what i mean Yes. lennon and mccartney kind of

46:59 Luke F. Walton Yes.

46:59 John Michael Rouchell vibe i think that stuff is so important man you know i i personally don't love the selfishness of the modern era you know but i understand that that is what it is i get it you know it's a part of it but um

47:13 John Michael Rouchell Unfortunately, I think we do a lot of masking of how much the thing you see is just the tip of the spear as opposed to the whole enchilada, you know, I like systems. I like people. I like all those things, you know.

47:25 Luke F. Walton Did your mindset change at all post-MBA? Did that change you?

47:30 John Michael Rouchell Yeah, 110%. You know, I got a dual concentrated MBA in strategy and data analytics. I finished number one in my class at Tulane University. I'm a nerd, man. Like I'm a compulsive and competitive nerd. And so it's like, yeah, I mean, I live every day with Dr. Sharif Ibrahim's goals, metrics, methods, resources in that order, the most important.

47:55 John Michael Rouchell important part in that order like really understand what a goal is and how to kind of get all people rowing towards that same goal as a producer and as a person who works you know whether you're composing for a film man you're the head of a department

48:09 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

48:10 John Michael Rouchell you know what I mean you're a leader more than you are a person I mean yes you were writing iconic melodies you were doing all those things you're arranging them you're doing all those things but really the reason why I wanted to go apprentice and study with Terrence Blanchard was because I knew he was a leader you know and I wanted to see how he led

48:30 John Michael Rouchell you know and he was gracious enough and kind enough because you know he came up under Art Blakey and those people who were great mentors to great musicians and he understands the power of mentorship you know he was like incredible to me to watch someone lead and I knew coming out of the NBA that like I needed to see someone who was a true leader

48:54 John Michael Rouchell you know in music few things are more leaderly than you know conducting a hundred some odd piece orchestra you know yeah the idea of a goal how to measure it you know really understanding metrics you know the funny thing is is with that goals metrics methods resources in that order thing I started realizing how many people change their goals because of their resources you

49:14 Luke F. Walton Hmm.

49:15 John Michael Rouchell know oh we don't have the money oh

49:17 Luke F. Walton we Yep.

49:17 John Michael Rouchell don't have the this oh we don't have the that maybe we should change our goal like that's the dumbest thing you can do on planet earth and i saw millions of people do it i have more arguments with people about

49:29 John Michael Rouchell how to record and they will change their goal based upon their methodologies of how to go about something which is equally as foolish and so it was very much like a honing of how i think and just like kind of created mental models in my brain that like uh that i thought they were all stars in my proverbial sky but it sort of made a constellation if that makes any sense

49:52 Luke F. Walton That makes a lot of sense. goal setting is a it's a fascinating thing because i think a lot of people focus their goal on i want to make this record to get a record label or i want to make this record to get a spotify playlist or to grow my career what what kind of goals just some examples just to seed maybe somebody's brainstorm would you uh would you throw out there for somebody that's listening say that they're like a 17 year old their artist and they're trying to figure out um

50:21 Luke F. Walton Where do they go? How do they start building their constellation?

50:25 John Michael Rouchell Well, that's a great question. The NBA side of me says like, okay, specific, measurable, achievable. oh

50:37 Luke F. Walton Realistic.

50:37 John Michael Rouchell god realistic

50:38 Luke F. Walton Realistic.

50:39 John Michael Rouchell and time-based right exactly otherwise it's a dream right and so that's that side of me the other side of me is is like as a creative there was something that I read afterwards like I'm a real big film nut right and Alfred Hitchcock talked about that someone said how do you start working on a film he said well I think about the conversation that I want a couple to have after they're leaving the film I'm about to make you

51:03 John Michael Rouchell and then I figure out what I want them to say and then I make the movie make them say that and so like think about how powerful that is what is that couple like as people how do you want to affect them uh all those kind of things to where you're designing towards an end before you know I Yeah. think a lot of people just create to create and

51:24 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

51:24 John Michael Rouchell I think that's great right that's wonderful and like I don't, I don't disparage anybody doing

51:31 Luke F. Walton But I

51:32 John Michael Rouchell that.

51:32 Luke F. Walton think that's easier to do on a smaller scale. When you're talking like an album, we're talking about a movie score or something like larger. I feel like that's when you need that scaffolding of goals for.

51:41 John Michael Rouchell A hundred percent, a hundred percent, man. I mean, like for example, with Jameson's record, like the one that, you know, we had some billboard success with, you know, he, the conversations were, okay, you know, I've been signed to a jazz label.

51:54 John Michael Rouchell uh you know the predominant my my audience has been predominantly older white folks you know what i mean and like any young black male is going to want to speak to his own people i mean like that makes sense to me and so i'm like okay well cool if we're gonna make this soul thing that's great uh we need a song that's going to be able to go to radio right and so like

52:19 John Michael Rouchell fortunately you know but my craft like we've all like alvin ford jr was working on that stuff all of us like we've all all had different experiences and things towards having those kind of successes and designs and those kind of things but because we were like okay you know we're fortunate in new orleans we have essence fest every july 4th right and like

52:40 John Michael Rouchell it's a predominantly african-american predominantly female excuse female right which is in entertainment we always want to kind of skew female because you get the women to show up blah blah i know that's a little bit millennial and boomer of me to say but like whatever it still applies and that those audiences love hits man they want to sing along you

53:01 Luke F. Walton Yep.

53:02 John Michael Rouchell know and so so much of the goal was like okay we need to make some songs that like are authentic to you there's authentic soul music it's organic it's real but like people got to be able to sing along you know and so yeah i think you're right i think when the stakes are low and you're sitting there with a laptop and the only resource you're really

53:22 John Michael Rouchell be expending his time it's completely fine to just create you know but when you have budgets and you only have a certain amount of money for recording and a certain amount of money for marketing and like it's your point the scaffolding scaffolding higher stakes hot tightrope you know all that kind of the higher sort of risk involved i think you got to kind of start thinking about those things and for me personally

53:50 John Michael Rouchell I love that shit.

53:51 Luke F. Walton Yeah, yeah

53:51 John Michael Rouchell The higher the stakes, the better, man. of it because here's the truth you're never gonna have enough resources you're never gonna have enough money you're never gonna have enough time you're never gonna have enough talent you're never gonna have what you need to get there and the fun part is just figuring out how to still get there it's a problem solving exercise for me you know Jameson was not on a jazz label he was doing it independently

54:20 John Michael Rouchell and we got him on the like on radio so it's like how do we do this and it was our realistic goal setting was like okay if we get top 20 in r&b radio like we're stoked because once you get in the top 20 you bump into beyonce bruno mars all the like we're

54:34 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

54:35 John Michael Rouchell not beating them that's

54:36 Luke F. Walton Yeah. Right.

54:36 John Michael Rouchell ridiculous like

54:37 Luke F. Walton Exactly. Exactly.

54:38 John Michael Rouchell we're not delusional Yes. but like to land a punch on those people from nothing from literally my guest bedroom you

54:47 Luke F. Walton yes

54:47 John Michael Rouchell know uh

54:47 Luke F. Walton yes nice

54:48 John Michael Rouchell is sick that's fun you

54:50 Luke F. Walton that is fun yes

54:51 John Michael Rouchell know what i mean like that's really that's a drug that i'll be chasing for the rest of my life hell

54:57 Luke F. Walton totally i absolutely get it i mean that my limited experiences have been getting in like new music friday where you

55:04 John Michael Rouchell yeah

55:04 Luke F. Walton know like my first time i was like the second to last In my

55:08 John Michael Rouchell That's

55:08 Luke F. Walton second time,

55:09 John Michael Rouchell great.

55:09 Luke F. Walton I was like top 25 and

55:11 John Michael Rouchell Look,

55:12 Luke F. Walton it man, was a

55:12 John Michael Rouchell a hundred thousand songs come out every single day on DSPs, okay? How many songs are on New Music Friday?

55:21 Luke F. Walton 100.

55:22 John Michael Rouchell Okay, so you are in the... top one percent of music or no not even less because you got seven days within that week right so you're in the top 0.01 or whatever i don't know i can't do the math i don't have a calculator but like think about that man that's crazy but

55:42 Luke F. Walton Yeah, it's crazy. It's crazy.

55:43 John Michael Rouchell like it's achievable

55:45 Luke F. Walton Yep. It

55:46 John Michael Rouchell It's doable. You did it. We're sitting here on this podcast talking about it, right?

55:50 Luke F. Walton like

55:50 John Michael Rouchell Like, so,

55:50 Luke F. Walton my first song my first song I did it uh I didn't have a desk I did it I mixed it in headphones and my uh laptop was on my dresser and uh my SM7 was on like a little desktop mic stand and uh yeah

56:07 John Michael Rouchell bro, I had to mix an episode of music for Terrence for this TV show thing from a hotel. bedroom in New York about an hour before I had to go do a

56:19 Luke F. Walton Oh

56:19 John Michael Rouchell vocal session with Anne Hathaway for this upcoming A24 movie. like you never have enough time you never

56:26 Luke F. Walton Yes.

56:26 John Michael Rouchell have enough resources you never have enough budget it's never like man that's that's that's what being a pro is man like do you know that i think it's apollo 13 where uh he like he poured he has this like cardboard box and he pours it on the table

56:41 Luke F. Walton Yes.

56:41 John Michael Rouchell and

56:41 Luke F. Walton Yes.

56:42 John Michael Rouchell he basically says like we have to get them down with the things on this table like anything that's a solution

56:49 John Michael Rouchell outside of this table is not a solution it's a dream um that's that's my life man i love that like give me that every day of the week man that's the best um maybe i'm a masochist but like that's

57:02 Luke F. Walton I think anybody

57:02 John Michael Rouchell you know

57:03 Luke F. Walton that

57:03 John Michael Rouchell what i mean

57:03 Luke F. Walton chooses

57:03 John Michael Rouchell i

57:03 Luke F. Walton this path is a

57:05 John Michael Rouchell think it's

57:05 Luke F. Walton pirate.

57:05 John Michael Rouchell sick man because it's like you know you're you're it's that's fun man that's fun i mean like you know i remember

57:14 Luke F. Walton Yeah,

57:14 John Michael Rouchell seeing what's my dude that mixed the early young thug things like he mixed it from an uber like he couldn't get up he didn't have a car because he was in new york so he was like oh i'm gonna get an uber and i'm gonna hook my thing up to his aux and just tell him to drive around so i can mix the report comes out later that day i mean that's awesome that's

57:35 Luke F. Walton so cool

57:35 John Michael Rouchell the best i mean that You know, yeah, if you can get your craft to that space where

57:42 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

57:42 John Michael Rouchell that's fun and

57:43 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

57:43 John Michael Rouchell not fearful, like

57:44 Luke F. Walton Right.

57:45 John Michael Rouchell that's, you know what I mean?

57:47 Luke F. Walton Totally.

57:47 John Michael Rouchell Now we're making music, man. Like that's the fun stuff.

57:49 Luke F. Walton Another New York City story. So I had no money, like literally no

57:53 John Michael Rouchell Oh,

57:53 Luke F. Walton money.

57:53 John Michael Rouchell yeah.

57:54 Luke F. Walton Yeah. I'm in New York City. I am playing in like. sideman work playing guitar

58:01 John Michael Rouchell Yeah,

58:01 Luke F. Walton for artists

58:02 John Michael Rouchell yes.

58:02 Luke F. Walton there um i'm in my hotel room that's like uh somewhere on the upper west side and i get a call that i need to record guitar for a commercial that um they need by the end of the day i have my guitar i don't have an interface um i'm like there's a guitar center i i go to hit i go to hit the um

58:27 Luke F. Walton uh the subway and i ran out of money for the subway so i'm like there's no time the guitar center is gonna close i hoof it on foot i miss it guitar center's closed there's one in time square that's open for another hour so i'm like running and

58:41 John Michael Rouchell I love this.

58:42 Luke F. Walton i get i get there and i'm like okay i pay with my credit card credit card declined i'm like okay no big deal i'll go to the i'll go to the bank i go in and the bank's closed i'm like okay what do i do my girlfriend girlfriend and she's now my wife she

58:56 John Michael Rouchell that's why she's

58:57 Luke F. Walton wired me money so

58:58 John Michael Rouchell going to

58:58 Luke F. Walton i could

58:59 John Michael Rouchell heaven she's

58:59 Luke F. Walton she's going to heaven she wired me money so i could buy the interface i go to the hotel room i knock out the guitar i set it up but those are the things that's what you have to do you know it's it's

59:09 John Michael Rouchell yeah man it's crazy to me it's

59:11 Luke F. Walton right

59:11 John Michael Rouchell like you know it's also a historical to think that it's going to be any different you know like I mean, the first cuts I had on a major label record we made in a bedroom, you know what I mean? They ended up selling millions of records and like, that was cool. Like RCA put it out, you know what I mean?

59:30 Luke F. Walton Yes,

59:31 John Michael Rouchell But it's

59:31 Luke F. Walton yes,

59:31 John Michael Rouchell also like, to the point, Motown demos,

59:35 Luke F. Walton yes,

59:36 John Michael Rouchell man. That's the vocal.

59:37 Luke F. Walton yes,

59:37 John Michael Rouchell Erykah Badu, who's one of the greatest singers of all time, stands in front of the speakers with no headphones, with the speakers dimed. singing into an SM58 that's

59:47 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

59:47 John Michael Rouchell what you hear on every one of her vocals on every one of her records like this idea that's the other thing okay so like let me get a little nerdy recording thing I am on an absolute crusade against vocal booths okay

60:02 Luke F. Walton Okay.

60:03 John Michael Rouchell this is like and I know Dr. Dre doesn't use a vocal booth and Jack Antonoff doesn't use a vocal booth and I'm I am team them Because I think it is absolutely lunacy to tell someone, hey, you're an insecure musician, you know, who wants to be loved by everyone, just like me, you know what I mean?

60:24 Luke F. Walton Mm

60:24 John Michael Rouchell I'm one

60:25 Luke F. Walton -hmm.

60:25 John Michael Rouchell of them.

60:25 Luke F. Walton Yep,

60:25 John Michael Rouchell Shit.

60:25 Luke F. Walton yep.

60:26 John Michael Rouchell You know, how about we put you in a hyperbaric chamber and tell you to perform and make magic for people? That is crazy, man.

60:36 John Michael Rouchell that is crazy if you really think about it man that is lunacy and so why so like the engineer doesn't have to isotope rx the thing a little bit or whatever like just so you get this man fuck off man no like you know what i mean like to me that's like crazy man the job is to capture a performance you

60:57 Luke F. Walton Yes.

60:58 John Michael Rouchell know what i mean and so like yeah to me it's like that's nuts it's just nuts it's like i love the french new wave film stuff like godard and truffaut and all that stuff like they were so smart that you know godard was like okay we can't we don't have the budgets of these hollywood films but i need the camera to move like you know from left to right get a grocery cart and move the camera from left to right

61:24 John Michael Rouchell it does the job you need it to do you know what i mean

61:26 Luke F. Walton Yes,

61:27 John Michael Rouchell like it's

61:27 Luke F. Walton yes.

61:27 John Michael Rouchell it's so crazy to me that like we're so things that don't get to the speakers we prioritize the things that don't get to the speakers man like what microphone or what chain or what who cares man is ain't you know what i mean like magic not magic like it's nuts to me man anyway sorry my

61:48 Luke F. Walton Good.

61:48 John Michael Rouchell my vocal booth crusade

61:50 Luke F. Walton I love it.

61:52 John Michael Rouchell You

61:52 Luke F. Walton People

61:52 John Michael Rouchell know,

61:52 Luke F. Walton need

61:52 John Michael Rouchell yeah,

61:52 Luke F. Walton to hear it. Speaking of what the people need to hear, so this is my last question. I ask this of every guest. The show is called Love Music More. The segment's called Love Music Why. I'll keep it simple. Why do you love music?

62:10 John Michael Rouchell music saved my life, man. Music has brought me all over the world. Music has brought me in rooms I never could have dreamed of, man. And so why do I love music, man? It saved my life, man. It's given me the best friends that I'll ever have. I vividly remember being 14, 15 years old, thinking that I was so weird and strange and from another planet and then hearing.

62:59 John Michael Rouchell David Bowie's Rise and Fall of Ziggy Stardust and the Spiders from Mars and going like, oh, you know, in the end, in rock and roll suicide, he's singing, you know, you're not alone. Give me your hands. And that feeling of like someone reaching through the speakers and grabbing me, that's what I'm trying to do for the rest of my life. So why do I love music? It saved my life, man.

63:23 Luke F. Walton Beautiful example.

63:24 John Michael Rouchell thank you brother we

63:26 Luke F. Walton All right. I lied. I've got one more question. 800 Hertz on a bass guitar.

63:30 John Michael Rouchell call it land yet we call it land new orleans bro l-a-g-n-i-a-p-p-e land yet a little something extra a little land yet for the people yeah

63:40 Luke F. Walton 800 Hertz on a bass guitar.

63:42 John Michael Rouchell okay

63:43 Luke F. Walton I couldn't let yeah you just not talk about

63:45 John Michael Rouchell no

63:45 Luke F. Walton that at all.

63:45 John Michael Rouchell i mean i think that's you know to me it's like i think you know every instrument has like its little space is what it's trying to occupy I

63:54 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

63:55 John Michael Rouchell think thinking about it in isolation is not necessarily the way to think about it if you think about usually a bass guitar is in relation to drums which is in relation to either keys or guitar right usually in a classic 20th century rhythm section sense

64:31 John Michael Rouchell that 1k yeah you can beef up guitars but there's this that mid-range man that woolly beautiful mid-range that like nothing sits in that space better than an electric guitar that 800 hertz man like and it's just to me that's what i i love that in records you know i love mid-range man i know like for a long time we were making real smiley records where it was like very big bottom very high top scoot mids

64:56 John Michael Rouchell like man i love mid-range mid-range is like hips on

64:59 Luke F. Walton Yeah, and mid

64:59 John Michael Rouchell a you

64:59 Luke F. Walton -range is

65:00 John Michael Rouchell know on

65:00 Luke F. Walton like good.

65:00 John Michael Rouchell a beautiful person man like i you know like i need a little ass i'm southern you know what i'm saying you know

65:09 Luke F. Walton So where can people find you? And I would definitely want to make sure that you talk a little bit about here in the blue room. I want them to check out your sub stack, follow you on socials. Where can people get in touch?

65:18 John Michael Rouchell Yes, thank you, man. Yeah, my Instagram's at thatjohnmichael, J-O-H-N-M-I-C-H-A-E-L. And yeah, I just started this sub stack kind of starting to spill just some theories and things that I think about on this website here in the blueroom.com.

65:35 John Michael Rouchell room.com the blue room is my studio it's kind of a safe space a creative space a lot of cool records have been made there and yeah I'm just starting to kind of share I just wanted to make a safe space on the internet you know it feels like so much so many things are just content driven and like algorithmically driven and all these kind of things I'm trying to just have a journal you know kind of it's it's a little maybe it's the elder millennial in me but that kind of bloggy kind of like

66:01 John Michael Rouchell like okay video just have

66:03 Luke F. Walton Oh,

66:03 John Michael Rouchell a conversation

66:03 Luke F. Walton that's interesting.

66:04 John Michael Rouchell with people and

66:04 Luke F. Walton I love it.

66:05 John Michael Rouchell so hopefully you know sometimes it gets a little theoretical but I think it would be a value for music makers you know we talk about everything from creativity to making records to mixing records to whatever it may be the I'm doing this one series called an anatomy of a song where I'm kind of breaking apart the things about a song that I that I think matter

66:26 John Michael Rouchell sort of like you know a doctor has a body I have a song right and I got to figure out what makes it sick and what makes it thrive and healthy and so like how I kind of look at it just because I've been doing this for I'm 40 now man I've been a professional in the music industry since I was 15 you know so like

66:47 John Michael Rouchell I, you know, and to the point of community and mentorship, this is my way of trying to bend the digital world to that, you know, to try to follow in the footsteps of people like Terrence Blanchard for me and other mentors that I've had.

66:59 Luke F. Walton Another life to match you.

67:00 John Michael Rouchell Hell yeah, dude.

67:02 Luke F. Walton Oh, it was a pleasure chatting. Really, really appreciate it.

67:04 John Michael Rouchell Scoobert, have a blessed one, man. Grateful for you.