How Mixing Is Like Baking

0:02 What's good, everybody? Happy New Year! It is Scoobert Doobert for love, music more.First of all, I just wanted to say how grateful I am to be able to make thispodcast and have people actually listen to it. That means a lot to me and Iwould love to invite you to share the love to other people, so please share thepodcast.

0:35 Like, subscribe, five stars on all of your platforms that really helps the algorithms and things get it out there into the world.

0:44 So today I want to talkmore about one of my favorite subjects, a growing love that is called mixing.And I'd like to use food metaphors to explain a little bit about kind of themixing process and some of the things that I'm finding within part of the reasons why I'm coming to love this part of music making so much more.

1:06 So to start, I'm working on a really cool EP right now that hopefully, you know, comesup on all the DSPs and stuff and I can share it. But until then, you know, it'sjust mine and the artists. And what I'm finding so fascinating about it isit's very cool experimental pop.

1:26 And I think, especially with experimental pop, you kind of have this weird uncanny valley that can happen so easily. And it's areally fun challenge as a mixing engineer because kind of the goal is to justgo far enough that it pushes it out of that valley and onto the mountaintop.

1:45 Andone of the things that I was thinking a lot about it is it's like being underbaked. And one of the things that experience brings for mixingengineer is not just like you get cooler tools or whatever. You know, I've got agreat computer now. I've got a great audio converter and DSP power and allthe stuff that's really awesome that I've been accumulating.

2:09 And so now it's kind of like, I've got a better oven, right? But it's not really completely about that.It's about knowing when to apply those things like really high heat. Take itreally, really far or to do nothing at all. And how when and where to beextreme in terms of pushing things out of that uncanny valley. And what I thinkis really interesting. And I think that this is the good interplane.

2:35 What I'm trying to bring as a mixing engineer is more of that artist mindset of I seewhere you were going. You just didn't quite go all the way there yet. Let me pushit over that ledge. It's like that, that feeling of, oh, you turn it up to 10but like we should go to 11, you know? And the ways that you do that are justleaning harder into those decisions and also balancing them across the mix.

3:02 So say, for example, stereo picture, the spread of an element between your left andright ears and the sense of width, like whether it's swimming around all of yourhead or it's directly in front of you, all of those things are cycloacoustic effects.You know, it's balancing a little bit differently in one ear versus the otherand it sounds wider because your ears are perceiving them in different phases.

3:27 Say for example, so if you have something that's up in one ear and something that'sdown in the other phase wise, together, they would cancel each other and theywould sound like nothing. That's how noise canceling headphones work. Butseparately perceived in headphones without any spill, it sounds like thewidest possible picture.

3:47 And so as a mixing engineer, you have to balance some of these things. And one of my favorite things is being in the modern era, youknow, back in like you honestly even five years ago, mono mixing was a much,much bigger deal. And still it's like important.

4:06 Basically like if I put it on myshower radio that I have suction cup to my shower, you won't hear those elements that are phase canceled from each other because they get summed intothe one speaker. But most people don't listen like that anymore. So you canchoose some elements to go really extreme, especially an experimental pop orhyper pop. Like you can go all the way.

4:30 You can use the tools in ways that are like off prescription off label use. And I've been doing that with some ofthese other AI based tools, like Gullfoss. I don't know if it's exactly AI, butit's like basically what that that is is picture 300 knobs in a robotturning all of them millisecond by millisecond. And that's basically what'sgoing on is it's reactive EQ based on, you know, human perception of sound.

5:01 And these things are really cool tools because you sprinkle a little bit of thathere or there. And now all of a sudden the mix just sounds louder and moremusical less harsh. But you can also in the automation tools push that thing to200%. I don't even know if you can do that just by hand, but at least in theback end knobs, you can push it to 200% and it creates these crazy artifacts.

5:25 Really crazy stuff. But so for this artist, there are a few moments where it'slike I hear this transition where you're literally changing keys from onething to like a tritone away, the most difficult key change possible. And he'snot doing any of the classical music theory jazz theory stuff to get from oneto the next. He's just hopping. It's like two songs spliced together.

5:47 And it's like, okay, this is really, really cool. But it's going to shock people. So how doI make it shock people and make them feel either more or less comfortable? Soit doesn't fall in that uncanny value, which is like, whoa, what was that thattook me out of the song and said is like, whoa, that was a cool moment. What asurprise.

6:08 And doing things like running that Gullfoss plug in up to 200% in a sweep. You know, you've probably heard the things at EDM that are these whitenoise bursts like it pushes you into the next section. It's basically using thatsame mentality onto an off label mastering plugin to push the listener fromone to the next and creates this weird audio artifacts that double down.

6:35 And finding a mixing engineer who can go there with you is actually really hard. Andthat's what I'm hoping to like, you know, be my market difference, I guess, is alot of mixing engineers. They've got their template, they've got their things,they fit you into that template, export it, and it sounds good. It is proper. Andnobody cares, man. It doesn't, it doesn't matter if it sounds proper.

6:59 It's like, oh, this is a perfect mono mix with all of the frequencies accounted for. It's like,I don't care, man, I just want cool music. It's like, I took your idea and Ipumped it up. I made it really loud, made it hit really hard and took somecompromises.

7:13 So it's not going to sound amazing on your shower speaker, but I'mnot going to go too far the other direction where I will have enough mono elements that even if some of the sweeteners, these crazy samples or crazy things arenow imperceivable in mono, you know, the kick drum, the snare, the lead vocal, themain guitar, the main synth, you can, you can get all of that, you know, still is the

7:36 tune. It still is good, but it's over indexing on the modern and under indexing onthe old school, just in general. And this is what excites me because these tools,they allow us to do both.

7:49 And I'm doing cool stuff like using a Fairchild 670, which is a tube compressor that I think it costs like 40 grand. And I've got it inmy computer and it sounds pretty dang close. And so I'm taking these hyperpopvocals, running them into a Fairchild, and then putting them into Gullfoss.

8:13 So as Iget a little bit of both, this weird bedroom poppy, not a great room sound, but leaning heavier into it. Instead of using the tools to pull out character,using the tools to highlight more character, to say, okay, yeah, this wasn'trecorded in the best possible room. Great. Let's make that the character focusof the entire song, like listen to this crazy sounding room. Isn't that cool?

8:42 Because it is. And guess what other people did that? You know, like one of my favoritereverbs that I have is Hitsville reverbs. And it's from Motown. Guess what? That's nota perfect sounding room. That's the reason why I like it. It's an attic. It's an atticwith a couple speakers and a couple microphones thrown up in the top. That's cool.

9:01 It's vibe. I don't want to throw everything into a perfect sterile space. And the mostimportant thing is emotion and contrast and vibe. So if you have a really good soundingdrum kit and then a crazy sounding vocal, awesome. That's awesome. That's so cool. Now youhave contrast. You have vibe. You have expression. It feels intimate.

9:22 I'm in this person's house, you know, taking all of that and just leaning further into it. Rather than usingthe tools to make things sterile, instead using the tools to highlight their imperfections.And using that as a mentality is a mixing engineer. To be like, yes, I want it to hit andhit hard on a bunch of different sound systems.

9:42 I want it to translate in earbuds on phone speaker on laptop speaker on my shower. It's a duck. So that's my shower duck. It's likea rubber duck speaker. I just got it for Christmas. Very nice. It doesn't sound great,but it's hilarious. So, you know, this is a whole point of this, right?

10:04 It's trying to say like, hey, it doesn't always have to sound great. It's not that's not what we'regoing for here. If we're going for great, just listen to old music. You know, like, we'regoing for different. We're going for character. We're going for something that only you asan artist can make. And hopefully, something only I as an artist can mix.

10:27 That's what I want to deliver. I want to deliver some cookie cutter stuff. That's the whole reasonwhy I'm not as bullish on AI for taking this job is, yeah, it's like, yeah, take the badengineers jobs because it's boring. And then hopefully people will realize that it's boringand then they can give the work to people that are more interesting.

10:48 And that's not to say that I don't want people to have jobs. What I'm trying to say is I want people to likebring them, their whole selves to the creative process. Stop phoning it in.

10:57 Stop thinkingthat these EQ curves and all these instruments and things have to be indicative of what likefollow your ears, follow your gut, follow your musicality and train your musicality, train your instincts to a point where you know, okay, like I've got his on this thing is thehis cool or not cool. You got to make that decision.

11:17 Is there too much additive hiss up and down the track? Should I mute half of them, not mute the other so that there's justa little bit of hiss? Should I pan the hiss back and forth? Should there be moments aftera different snare drum like say beat two? There's no hiss after a beat four. There ishiss after it.

11:32 All of those little tiny micro decisions they add up and you have to make them. But you have to make them with your whole spirit and your whole self and your wholeidentity and confidence. Otherwise you feel it. You can hear it. I swear you can hear itwhen people have labored too much.

11:48 And that's part of the reason why there are so many stories of mix 52, mix 729 and they end up going with mix two because that's where the magic is.It's the engineer that you picked. You said, I want them for their artistic taste.

12:10 Let them do their work. Obviously you can have notes. But if you have too many notes, maybeyou need to pick a different engineer because the tastes are not lining. And if you're anengineer that's scared of notes, so you don't end up implementing your taste, maybe youneed to redefine yourself too. And that's okay. Sometimes things don't fit.

12:33 It's hard because there's money and you want to pay for your life. And there's a very competitive thingso everybody's kind of chasing it. But having the confidence to say, you know what? No,I know what I like. I'm going to only make stuff that I like. Even if it's in genres,I don't listen to. I'm going to make it in a way that I want to.

12:53 And if the artist doesn't like that, they should go find someone else because I don't want to be making stuff thatI don't like. Why would I waste my time? And I don't want to be putting people in the cookiecutters. And so like the idea of the artist, you know, they prepare, they prepare the recipe.They find all the ingredients. They get it all together. They say, okay, now you mix it.

13:17 Or maybe they mix it themselves as a rough mix and they give it to you to do the final.What you need to do is not just follow the recipe. It's to like picture like a home chef,you know, get it being Gordon Ramsay or somebody. They're, they're recipe. What are they goingto do to it? How are they going to elevate it?

13:40 Are they going to take that from a great thing at Thanksgiving dinner to something that every single family wants on their dinnertable or that people would pay $100 to go sit at that restaurant and eat that meal? That'swhat we're doing as a mixing engineer.

13:57 And then you give it to the mastering engineerand they're the ones that are like, put the egg wash on it, make it shiny, make it, plate it, you know, there's, but you need to know your role as a mixing engineer isn't justas an engineer. It's as a, as an artist to in your own way. Whatever that might be.

14:24 For me, my own way is putting a lot of like sauce on it. You know, let's kick things up a notch,pow, that kind of a flavor town. That's a, that's where I'm pointing my shit because I like musicthat pumps that goes somewhere that feels like 2024 or beyond.

14:47 I don't want to make, you know, that's honestly like a, this is a super tangent, but the Beatles, they released their final songwith the help of AI and with the help of a bunch of producers over decades and stuff. I don'tlike the way it sounds because it sounds old and new in an uncanny valleyway.

15:10 I knit sucks because I really like the Beatles. I'm drinking from a Beatles mug right now. My favorite mug, whenever I drinkfrom this mug, I focus on music the entire day. So I try not to drink from this, this chalice,

15:23 this chalice too often because then I'll just waste my days away making the thing I love.But my point is the old school mentality just doesn't work for me. Obviously,plenty of people like this song. It doesn't work for me in 2024.

15:44 Piano should sound like a new version of a piano, not just every other piano that's ever been. It's boring. It's done. Let's move on.

15:55 Don't make music that AI can make. Don't mix like AI can mix. Don't master like AI can master.

16:01 All of that stuff is just the reaction and the additive feature of all the stuff that's come before.What are you doing that's next? How are you turning that page in this new year, this new resolutionto be a better artist fixing engineer master engineer wherever you are? We're just music fan.

16:18 Go go harder. Take it to the next place because we need music to do that. And I think it is, you know,but let's do it faster. Let's do it harder. Let's show AI and technologists what creatives canreally do because I don't think they they get it yet. And I don't think that we get it either.I think we should show more confidence and more self love.

16:41 So that's part of my New Year's resolution is to go harder. And then the other thing is to play drums. I want to be a by the end ofthe year, I want to be able to say I am a drummer. I am a little drummer boy. That is my goal. And mydrum kit comes in four days. So I can't wait. I got a little mini drum kit. It's going to be awesome.

17:01 So hold me to that goal. Thank you for listening to this podcast. Got some really great conversationscoming up. I already had them. You're going to love them. They're so cool. They're about these kindof topics. And I hope you stick around for this new year. I hope you check out the music that I'vegot dropping.

17:19 At the time you hear this, I think it'll be a few days after this on the first Friday of 2024. It'll be a new single. And then pretty much every other week for the rest of the year.Is my other New Year's resolution. Can't have enough. So if you enjoy this podcast, please share itwith your friends.

17:38 And if you'd like to hire me for mixing, I'm scoobertdoobert.pizza is where I can find my links. I'm also on the engineers platform that I think I'm going to be using for a lot of mymixing stuff. So yeah, please reach out. Even just questions or pot ideas or anything like that. I'm

17:56 down to, down to converse. So thank you so much for listening. Really means, means a lot,like I was saying at the beginning of the episode. Otherwise, it would just be me sitting in mystudio talking to a microphone alone, which is quite literally what I've been doing for the last18 minutes.

18:13 But because you're on the other end, it gives it some sort of purpose and hopefully a little bit of inspiration both ways. So thank you so much. And I will see you guys next week.