Genre Isn't Real — or Is It?

0:43 What's good, everybody?Welcome back to Love Music More.I'm your host, Scoobert Doobert.

1:07 And today I'm going to help you love music more by talking about the history of genre.So I've been doing a lot of thinking about genre because I've been writing for my substackat lovemusicmore.substack.com.But the reason why I'm doing all that writing is I'm doing a history of rock and roll.And every single time I write a post like a month or two later I look back and I go, hmm,

1:30 I probably could have talked about this important artist or about this branch or thisturn from rockabilly.And then they recombination where like you have rockabilly but then they start listeningto hardcore music or heavy music and now you've got this like dark rockabilly.And you're realizing that the map of even just the genre of rock is extremely fuzzy.

1:55 And we apply all of these tight terms to try and classify the music that we like, thegroup that we belong to, the way that we dress.And all of that's important because that's kind of just like the way that people work.Very much a species of classifiers and I'm trying to do that obviously.

2:19 That's part of like the process of history and historical writing is trying to simplify.You're trying to create categories so that you can describe general themes.It's kind of a requirement for history.I feel like that's part of what changes something from bookkeeping to history is it'sthat analytical processing of organizing and sorting.

2:44 You know, that's part of the reason why I like my dude Herodotus shout out for those whoknow Herodotus that if you don't read the very first history by Herodotus at some point,I'm just saying.But going back to rock music instead of the history of the Persian wars, let's talkabout the concert they went to just last night for Cro-Mags.

3:06 So those of you that listened to the episode three weeks ago, I guess three episodesago, Harley Flanagan joined the pod for a really great hour long conversation about his lifeand about his musical journey as one of the inventors of the genre of hardcore.

3:26 But what struck me at the concert was a moment where he went up to the mic and said,I know you all know us as a hardcore group, but deep down, I'm a punk rocker.I like the Ramones and then he threw into a song that was like super Ramonesy and it wasone of those moments of, hey guys, this is what you know me as.

3:54 This is what a brand is or a collective, but this is who I am as an artist and all ofthis is wrapped up in the other in the same way that when I was talking to Andy Shernoffof dictators, he was talking about how he was the number one Beach Boys fan and he's oneof the first punk rock dudes ever Beach boys.

4:16 There's no shame in it and I all think that the artists have been way ahead of the curvewithin the fans in a lot of ways, which leads me to my central thesis, again, history tryingto classify and organize my central thesis is that genre is branding, genre is for marketing.It is also for the collection of musical thought into physical mediums.

4:44 In other words, music is this ephemeral intangible thing, but when you see a concert, it becomesphysicalized as in you see what everyone's wearing or not wearing in Harley's case.Or you see the way that everyone's acting or the drugs that they do or the ways thatthey interact or the ways that they dance.

5:10 And I actually think that that last bit is the most important, but we'll get there.I also want to illustrate something that I'm going through a little bit in my careerwhere yes, currently, and it's become a trope, people say genre is dead.The current musical environment is no genre, blend things free for all.

5:34 I don't think that's further from the truth, is that the saying, I don't think thatcould be further from the truth.There you go.I think that genre is actually alive and well in actually getting stronger.There are influences, but there's always been influences.There's always been crossover.There's a difference though in the modern era where you have a lot of different playlists,

5:57 but fundamentally there are some playlists that are way more powerful than others.There are certain channels and genres that have more radio, that have more distribution,that have more listeners.And within those verticals, it's kind of hard to break out.You can have influences, but influences are not the same as cross genre.Like a really good band that does that is like ween.

6:22 Or even like what the Beatles did, there are mechanisms that play to try to keep youinside of a marketable lane and give the impression that you don't care, but the impressionthat you're open and fluid between all of these genres.And in reality, these structures remain in a lot of ways they're getting stronger.And so as musical fans, I think it's important to think about that and feel that.

6:50 And then also think about the way that the artists relate to genre that's very differentthan the ways that fans relate to genre and try and open up your mind.Try and give the artists a little bit more room.Because like Harley is a really good example of he frickin' crushed that, so funny.He frickin' trying to keep this PG.He crushed the Ramones style song, it sounded awesome.I want more of it.

7:17 It's kind of the music that's in his soul now.Not to say that the hardcore music goes in in his soul, he obviously helped invent it.But I'm trying to say that you don't want to put a leash on your creators.They're supposed to take you to the promised land, they're supposed to show you somethingnew.That's how genres get invented and innovated.

7:39 But genre is a powerful force in both directions, where people say I only listen to this.Or I'm really into this because it's post-punk.Like there's a band that I'm working with called Bed, really cool out of Tokyo.People call them post-punk but they don't like it and they're like we're beyond genreet cetera et cetera.And I kind of agree, they blend a lot of different things, but they're a rock band.

8:06 And if you are a rock fan, you're more likely to like them.They're just like kind of a newer grunge meets electronic, meets post-punk, a sub-branchof it.However, I've heard some of their demos and they are not just that.And in this age of internet music, people should be able to be everything they are.

8:28 And what's unfortunate is I think a lot of artists, they feel punished when they stepoutside of their lane, old and new.You mix it up and the algorithm doesn't give you the love or the platforms or radio stationsthat you've spent time cultivating, they don't play it.And that's part of the risk and artists have to take risks, but try and reward them as

8:56 fans too when they take those risks, especially if you actually like it.And try and like pull out all that's cool, style is cool, like I'm not saying I don'tlike that.But I think that the real physicalized aspect of music should be dance.And all music is dance music every bit of it because every, like perfect example, I playeda gig in Tokyo, I went on at like 3 am, I was losing my voice, it was crazy.

9:29 Finish my set, another two rock bands play, and then right as the sun is about to rise,a vinyl DJ comes on and plays ambient music and is blending in soundscapes.That was dance music too, for a very specific moment, it was a beautiful moment becauseI was drifting in between dream and reality.

9:55 We're all kind of swaying nodding off and then startling yourself back up, nursing thatfinal beer that you probably shouldn't have had.That was dance too.And when I saw Cro-Mags, that was dance.It's just dance in a circle pit where people are punching each other.But it's dance, it evokes something else, that's what art does, it's supposed toevoke something.

10:18 And when you physicalize the medium in terms of the way that it makes you dance, that'sthe way that I really try to think about genre.There are these marketing terms that are critic driven or subreddit driven or playlist driven,like even hyperpop, right?All these things that end up taking on a lot of connotation and then that also can create

10:38 so much weight that a genre that could have evolved, it crystallizes and that can be unfortunate.Or an artist that had more to give, or that was just their first record, that was justthe first iteration of what they were going to make, but now they're known as inventingthat genre they're locked in.But instead, if you think of genre as the way it makes you move, then you can thinkof all of this different stuff.

11:04 And as an artist, that's your canvas.How do I want to mind control, body control people and get them to tap their feet or nodtheir head or nod off or fight?Those are the levers that I think are really cool to think about when you're writing andthinking about the genre that you're trying to write for.And I feel that way with rock music, too, where each of those histories are associatedwith different types of dance.

11:34 And I think that that's part of what the difference between hip-hop is versus rock is versuspop is.Like they all kind of make you dance a little bit differently, jazz.Even like classical music, I move when I'm in the audience because that's what the composerwanted to.Don't just want you to sit there with your hands in your laps and just absorb the music.And movement can be anything.

12:03 Movement doesn't have to be like gyration or like b-boy stuff, or it can literally justbe a subtle sway or rhythmic blinking.There's a reason why the composer, I'm sorry, there's a reason why the conductor is moving

12:24 her hands in that sort of evocative, trying to pull out from the musicians and pull outfrom the audience, too, trying to transcend the museum-like experience that is going toa symphony.That's what rock music does, too.Part of the reason why I think rock music was so successful and such like a big momentis it was unabashedly that.It was unabashedly of the body.And simple and in your face and dangerous.

12:58 Because it weren't being satisfied.Things that were making you move in ways that other things were not.That's one of the things I like about, like futuristic stuff, that's one of the thingsI like about bed, is you look at the audience that's watching it and they are moving ina different way than I see them moving at other like mosh pits.That's when you know you have something pretty cool.

13:24 I want my music, too, so silly.My music is like, I want to put you in the place where you drive them by the beach ina convertible, where you just kind of like bobbin by a fire pit or something like that.But that's not the only thing I want you to do.I also want to be able to get you to move in other ways because I want to have an interestinglife set.I want to have an interesting life.

13:45 I want you to have an interesting life.If I just pigeon myself into only making this one kind of thing that makes you feel onekind of way and move in one kind of way, hey, that might be a great marketing decision,but is that a great artistic decision and is that a long-term strategy to create theworld that I want to live in?I say all this to try to just make you think, make you consider it and open up to these

14:10 different genres in different ways of classifying.Because I think at the end of the day, classification is important.It is its own sort of inspiration, but it cuts both ways.

14:27 For segmentation or overly focusing on things like subgenre, or the fashion that is co-extensivewith those subgenres, I think can break us and limit us.So get unlimited.I hope you enjoy this.I hope this opened up some limitations potentially in your view of genre.We had dance with it.Make music that makes people dance, but everything's dance.Even just making your brain pulse in different ways.

15:01 If you want to hear my music, if you want to have your brain pulse in weird ways, go scoobertdoobert.pizza and I'll see you all next week.