An Interview with Geneva Harrison

2:10 Luke F. Walton Welcome back to Love Music More. I am Scoobert Doobert, and I am joined with Geneva Harrison. Welcome to the show.

2:17 Geneva Harrison Thanks for having me. It's a pleasure to be here.

2:19 Luke F. Walton Yeah, I'm super excited. I think the thing that I want to dive into first is Brazilian music, because I've been listening to a lot of Gilberto Gil, and it just puts me in like the right place. And I don't know enough about like, why it does the things that it does to me.

2:36 Luke F. Walton Like, I want to understand the cultural reasons, I want to understand like the rhythms. And I also want to understand kind of your your relationship to it.

2:44 Geneva Harrison Yeah, for sure. I mean, first, I do I have I have to like, throw the caveat out

2:49 Luke F. Walton Yes.

2:49 Geneva Harrison there that I am no scholar, certainly no authoritative voice on Brazilian music by any stretch, but I do love it a lot. And I've been listening to it for a very long time. I mean, that's, you know, Brazilian music is such a wide, wide range of music styles. It's constantly evolving. It's really incredible and overwhelming how much there really is.

3:15 Geneva Harrison And, you know, while I have studied Brazilian music, it is, you know, I just got it for that comment out there. I'm not I am not the be all voice, but I can tell you how I feel about it.

3:28 Geneva Harrison For me, I started listening to Brazilian music when I was fairly young. Our household.

3:34 Geneva Harrison was like kind of always full of jazz and Latin and Brazilian music growing up and probably in my like late childhood early adolescence I really started gravitating a lot towards you know Latin and Brazilian music.

3:51 Geneva Harrison which is around the time that I started playing percussion as well so you know those kind of I think maybe go a little hand in hand because there is so much percussion in both of those styles of music there's so much rhythm so it's just kind of this endless world of possibilities and explorations rhythmic explorations and you know different cultural significances behind all of it which I'm still still downloading in my life I mean there's just

4:19 Geneva Harrison just you know there's just so much um and I think you know something about Brazilian music in particular that I think feels so good is there is a sense of this freeing but calming but super energized feeling about it and I think that there's something extremely dreamy about it whether it's something that's melancholy or really joyful,

4:50 Geneva Harrison you know, on either end of that spectrum. There's just this very dreamlike kind of quality to it.

4:56 Geneva Harrison You know, I think there's probably a lot of cultural reasons why it feels that way or what maybe what the affinity is I don't know but I can say that I you know I went to Brazil for the first time I can't believe it took me this long to go but last year and that feeling is very palpable at least in Rio where I was around a lot of music like at all times that feeling is very palpable

5:26 Geneva Harrison in the real like around you it's not just when you're listening to music it's just kind of there it's present i think if if we wanted to get down to the anthropological sort of breakdowns um of what it is about brazilian music you know samba is kind of at the root of so much brazilian music and the the

5:51 Geneva Harrison The cultural and, you know, like kind of, I don't know if societal is the right word, but the cultural significance of samba is that it is a kind of music that came out of resistance to...

6:06 Geneva Harrison Union powers. Essentially, it was born out of slaves escaping their plantations and finding a home where they could be with one another to create and express themselves musically. That was a big part of it. So a lot of the root of Brazilian music is sort of this kind of righteous reclaiming of joy. And I really think that that is so intrinsic to what Brazilian music is.

6:39 Geneva Harrison And so I think there's kind of this expression and this outcry of really claiming joy and, you know. I think turning something that is very painful into something to celebrate, you know, life being alive, being with your people. And, you know, I mean, music is such a great channel for all of that.

7:04 Geneva Harrison And I also think that, you know, a very special, beautiful thing about Brazilian music particular is it takes tradition and root.

7:12 Geneva Harrison of tradition and is also constantly innovating and recreating and you know without losing that honor for tradition but also keeping things fresh and new and reflective of the current time I mean I think there's kind of like an active there's it feels like there's like a very active like desire for that or or intention for that you know So, yeah, in a nutshell,

7:42 Geneva Harrison some of the things I really, really love about Brazilian music, you know.

7:48 Luke F. Walton Yeah, and I find it so fascinating too to think about like you have history and then energy and then you have music where it's like music is part of all of that separate from all of that it's it's both and i think that's a beautiful interesting thing of like you get to have kind of a conversation with ancestors with your history with your place and sometimes i worry that we step outside of that a little bit too far when we're thinking like very commercially or we're thinking not to say that commercial music's bad i make a lot of it but

8:19 Luke F. Walton Sometimes it's easy to lose focus on like kind of what you're doing, what you're engaging with, the shoulders of the giants that you're standing on because you're just trying to make something that could fit on a Spotify playlist.

8:31 Geneva Harrison Yeah, yeah, I feel you. I think there's, you know, I think in our modern world, I think there's a, you know, a bit of that push and pull of what keeps you in tune with what you really connect to.

8:44 Geneva Harrison in music at its core or even you know what what brought you to it in the first place and how do you continue to reconnect with that versus you know also needing to make a living and and trying to find those opportunities where you can you can do that you know yeah it's a bit of a it's it's a beast to grapple with in in the career as a musician you know and then there's it's also a blessing to have the opportunities to

9:14 Geneva Harrison is to continue to engage with the things that really get you going, you know. Or even finding those spaces within commercial opportunities, you know, to find those moments where you can feel that connection or maybe, you know, put it into what you're doing, even if it's just a moment, you know. Yeah, yeah, for sure.

9:40 Luke F. Walton I'm super curious, too, about the heartbeat of music, because like people are probably familiar with a metronome or a click track, but I don't know if everybody's familiar with like the other types of heartbeats that are beyond just like click, click, click, click, like talking, you know, we're talking samba, we're talking like clave patterns, like things like that where, yeah,

10:04 Luke F. Walton the beats can be a little bit less rigid or they you can have. have something else at the center. Could you explain, you know, maybe like Eli5 style?

10:14 Geneva Harrison I mean, I, you know, I do, I find that so interesting in a couple of different capacities, you know, there's, there's sort of like the, the one example of, you know, recording not to a click and maybe live with a band versus recording to a click and maybe overdubbing and stuff like that. You know, those bring very different, I think, not just essences, but they can really guide.

10:39 Geneva Harrison how you are perceiving the music and feeling the music in the moment, you know. I mean, I think anything having to do with timing, rhythm, stuff like that can really lays with your very in the moment presence with the art, you know. And so there's, you know, there's that one example or layer of how we interface with.

11:06 Geneva Harrison with the heartbeat of music because it can be very elastic and then there's also you know in some in some musical traditions or types of music from other parts of the world take samba for example great example you know the heartbeat is the sort of which are the the low bass drums and you know all of that music if you're talking about traditional or like Rio style carnival Samba,

11:35 Geneva Harrison you know, there's while there might be an acknowledgement of tempo markings and stuff like that.

11:44 Geneva Harrison are certain ranges of tempo that you ideally want the music to fall into you know you might have someone leading the hipiki section with a call to bring everyone in and once everyone comes in you know those 150 200 250 drummers once they all come in that music is flying like you know that hipiki player might might

12:10 Geneva Harrison might call something off right here at this tempo and once everyone else comes in it's like it's like it's

12:16 Luke F. Walton Yeah,

12:17 Geneva Harrison gone and

12:17 Luke F. Walton yeah.

12:17 Geneva Harrison I mean that's that's something that I think you know some people might scoff at being like oh they're rushing but that's not that's actually it's actually part it's part of it that that urgency and that excitement is part of it and that's that you know For everybody involved the audience the musicians see the dancers, you know, it's it's an explosion.

12:42 Geneva Harrison It's a blast of energy and you just go on for the roller coaster ride, you know and I think that that's You know, that's so key to the experience because, you know, I mean, yeah, Carnival Samba's 50, 60 years ago were much slower. There was a very different kind of experience in that regard. There's different reasons why it's faster nowadays than it was then, aside from people just getting excited.

13:09 Geneva Harrison But yeah, I think that that elasticity, that, you know, lack of needing to adhere to very... you know, rigid timing or tempo, I think brings a very different experience along, you know. I mean, then, you know, we can also talk about elasticity within just a particular feel, you know.

13:37 Geneva Harrison Yeah, I mean, you know, you can have very literal kind of senses of feeling rhythm and then

13:46 Geneva Harrison Something that I think is really beautiful and I think I'll always be challenging myself to master in my lifetime is the ability to push and pull, you know, even the idea of a 16th note,

14:01 Geneva Harrison a triplet, you know, a quintuplet where certain partials can fall without. overthinking the you know the literal rhythmic breakdown of it you know and and doing it with with feeling I think that you know drummers like Chris Dave you

14:19 Luke F. Walton Yes.

14:19 Geneva Harrison know production like J Dilla you know these monsters of music that we have you know I think all been trying to emulate for a good 15 20 years at this point yeah I think that That kind of musicality as a drummer in particular is really like the chef's kiss,

14:41 Geneva Harrison you know, and, you know, we don't have as much of the maybe the history that like a saxophonist or, you know, a flute player violinist or something might have with the years and years and years of examples of rhythmic push and pull that maybe reflects a vocal performance.

15:01 Geneva Harrison you know in in a way that like seemingly drummers can't do but of course we can it's just a I think it's a bit of a different I mean we kind of have to break the rules a little bit I think to a certain degree to get to that point you know yeah I don't know if I answered your question

15:17 Luke F. Walton no

15:17 Geneva Harrison I kind

15:17 Luke F. Walton no

15:18 Geneva Harrison of meandered around there a

15:19 Luke F. Walton i little liked

15:19 Geneva Harrison bit

15:19 Luke F. Walton it i liked it just to reflect some of it back i think one of the it's fun to think about drums like vocals because a lot of people like think of drums as the grid which they can be and that's great too but like steady drum machine style like blocks

15:34 Geneva Harrison Yeah.

15:35 Luke F. Walton but it is fun to be able especially as a percussionist because a lot of what you're doing is pushing and pulling and like conversing with the other percussionist or with the drum kit in a way that is not necessarily like everybody's falling on the exact same beat at the exact same time because that's so square you're trying to dance dance with each other

15:53 Geneva Harrison Yeah, totally, totally. Yeah, I'm definitely drawn more and more to that as

15:58 Luke F. Walton Cool.

15:58 Geneva Harrison time goes on,

15:59 Luke F. Walton Yeah,

15:59 Geneva Harrison you nice know,

15:59 Luke F. Walton times.

15:59 Geneva Harrison I mean, I've been drawn to it for a while, but that that concept of even just like in a band, everyone kind of finding their flow together and what that kind of means for that particular group of people or that particular, you know, set of music or, you know, and it like, while I do certainly value, you know, putting your time in practicing and

16:22 Geneva Harrison getting as good at your instrument as as you can be or you know getting the song down as tight as it can be I think there's so much room for what that means that doesn't need to be bound so tightly to like perfect you know rigid time I mean it really depends on what the music is right but

16:46 Geneva Harrison you know in some styles of music the guitarist really needs you to just be locked in hard

16:50 Luke F. Walton Totally,

16:51 Geneva Harrison you know

16:51 Luke F. Walton totally true.

16:52 Geneva Harrison what I mean or or whatever it is but um but yeah I think that's such a That's the most, I think, human expression of the collective experience within a band, you know, that's

17:05 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

17:05 Geneva Harrison a beautiful place, I think, to be. I've gone in and out through my music career of being on both ends of that spectrum, you know, some gigs playing with a click, you know, others like definitely not wanting to because it just kind of kills something a little bit. Or you end up being in a different headspace, you

17:27 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

17:27 Geneva Harrison know, that takes you out of that organic sort of. feeling or development of the you know the musical motifs and whatnot yeah

17:38 Luke F. Walton totally totally and sometimes even when you're playing with a click it's fun to do a click that is not just a standard quarter note or does something that's a little bit different like one of the things i love doing if i'm like say for example if i'm starting a song on guitar and i don't want it to be a demo i want to actually use my guitar is like figuring out either drum beat or some sort of weird click or some sort of other like rhythmic element like a ostinato

17:59 Luke F. Walton synth kind of thing even if i'm not going to leave that in the song but just something to like kind of like groove against and play with rather

18:06 Geneva Harrison Yeah.

18:06 Luke F. Walton than just being like i'm in this sterile little box and i have to play pop rhythms and it's all going to be quantized anyway you know like it i know it does unlock something even psychologically metronomes are great practice with them a lot but uh like when you're trying to create and lay down something that's actually going to be on a record i don't know I think it's more fun to not more than do it, you know?

18:29 Geneva Harrison Yeah, yeah. Oh, definitely. I think I mean, yeah, I think especially when you're yeah, when you're starting from, you know, guitar, bass, any like any it's it's really, really nice to have some sort of rhythmic ostinato, you know, figure of something, even if you end up scrapping it

18:46 Luke F. Walton Totally.

18:46 Geneva Harrison and you end up putting something completely different in there. You know, it's just it's you know, it's nice to. To just have some kind of loop going, you know,

18:56 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

18:56 Geneva Harrison and I find that having, yeah, having like a rhythmic loop of some kind is very helpful, you

19:03 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

19:03 Geneva Harrison know, yeah, it gives you that bed to just kind of. riff off of you

19:08 Luke F. Walton yeah

19:08 Geneva Harrison know yeah

19:08 Luke F. Walton yeah totally and like you're saying like the push and pull sometimes i like to do like a long hi-hat pattern or something that i'm playing it's even if there's no kick or snare with this human that's like you feel that hi-hat kind of doing this and the entire song kind of does this with the hi-hat and you just have something to listen to and like oscillate with and you can always lay on layer on electronic drums later if you wanted to like snap it to grid heavy but then the whole band has kind of got this little sway

19:33 Luke F. Walton sway to it that even if the hi-hat like goes away having that maintain i don't know there's the little moments that i really i think they add up and make you move you know yeah

19:43 Geneva Harrison Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I totally, yeah, I totally agree. Yeah, it's pretty, I mean, it doesn't surprise me at all that it does impact us so much. We do have our own internal rhythm, you know, I mean, we do, and it oscillates depending on our mood. and you know like our heartbeat our

20:01 Luke F. Walton How much

20:01 Geneva Harrison heart

20:01 Luke F. Walton sodium?

20:01 Geneva Harrison rate yeah yeah yeah totally how much sleep you did or didn't have maybe how many drinks you had the night before uh whatever it might be yeah I mean there's so many things that affect our own perception of of life and a lot of that I do think is very much I mean think about like you know if you're trying to process how you feel about something

20:24 Geneva Harrison you know or how something has made you feel I think one of the most acute things that you can express about how you physically feel has to do with your heart rate you know what I mean like if you're if you're nervous about something your your heart is going to race if you're like you know I don't know feeling really exhausted you're maybe gonna be like your heart rate might be extremely slow but heavy you know and those are things that I think we're actually

20:54 Geneva Harrison more attuned to than we realize and I think that really reflects how we feel it's affected by how we react to certain experiences and and then bouncing off of our whole you know cycle is a whole other layer with that you know but

21:13 Luke F. Walton I agree.

21:13 Geneva Harrison yeah

21:13 Luke F. Walton No, I totally agree. And all of those things, they all work together. And I mean, I think one of the things that I've been trying to work on is my i sometimes my diaphragm or whatever gets like excited like because i'm in a moment and so your

21:26 Geneva Harrison Mm

21:26 Luke F. Walton heart rate

21:26 Geneva Harrison -hmm.

21:26 Luke F. Walton elevates a little bit your diaphragm constricts a little bit and then you don't have your full access to like communication singing whatever but at the same time those moments are special because you're excited like you're flowing in something you're trying to make something happen it makes me think of the the you know increasing pace of drums where it's like you're on the edge this precipice of something

21:47 Luke F. Walton And even though it might not be technically perfect in the same way that like I might not be able to hold as long of a note, you might hear something in the vocal cords that might be like you might sympathetically catch that excitement.

21:59 Geneva Harrison Yeah, sure. Oh, definitely. Yeah. I mean, I think that's such a special part of, you know, singing and vocals is just, I mean, that extremely vulnerable and very nuanced it's a very nuanced instrument that is

22:19 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

22:19 Geneva Harrison totally based off of our relationship to the human voice you know I mean every you know everyone has most people have a relationship to the human voice that they don't I mean that relationship doesn't necessarily exist with other instruments in that way so it allows it allows for a very you know rich palette of you know what can affect you know the audience's perception of it and everything very cool and

22:48 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

22:48 Geneva Harrison yeah I mean I think in that sense it's it is one of the most fun challenging and exciting things to practice as a drummer is

22:58 Luke F. Walton Oh,

22:58 Geneva Harrison like transcribing vocals or

23:02 Luke F. Walton cool.

23:02 Geneva Harrison like and applying it to drums or or percussion perhaps you know I mean I think hand drums especially in a lot of ways have always felt

23:12 Geneva Harrison uh like the the closest you know the closest thing to like a human voice as far as you know like like a percussionist hand drummer taking a solo or something there's something about it even though it's very you know transient heavy it's very attack heavy and it's very

23:29 Geneva Harrison host there's something that you know in it that can I think kind of tap into some sort of vocal expression emotively in a lot of ways but but yeah but like practicing and transcribing vocal lines melodies rhythms can really I think expand your musicianship as a drummer and there's I think there's some singers who are even better than others too

23:58 Geneva Harrison transcribe but because it's really interesting where vocalists will place things

24:03 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

24:03 Geneva Harrison against the

24:03 Luke F. Walton Oh,

24:03 Geneva Harrison beat you

24:04 Luke F. Walton yeah. Totally.

24:04 Geneva Harrison know what I mean yeah and if it's a really good challenge for a drummer to get off of that grid thing so much and to really play musically and it that kind of exercise will like force you to to really like get loose you know

24:23 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

24:23 Geneva Harrison you

24:24 Luke F. Walton Yeah,

24:24 Geneva Harrison Yeah,

24:24 Luke F. Walton it's really cool. I actually have heard that kind of stuff from different drummers of organic things to transcribe, which I always find so fascinating. I love the drummer percussionist mind because I try to be, but I'm bad. I'm a guitarist. But like one of my drummer friends, he was like transcribing like the washing machine, just like these like random things like birdsong rhythms.

24:48 Luke F. Walton Like, what are you doing? He's like. like believe me like this matters and like this is so fascinating it's such an interesting way to like just take the input of the world and then i started putting like bird song in my my songs and stuff not just because it's cute but because it's like it's organic it's different it loops in a weird way i don't know it's evocative

25:06 Geneva Harrison Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I totally, yeah, I definitely agree. I mean, I think there's, it really, stuff like that, like really just pushes you to conceive of rhythm in different ways because like bird songs, for example, I mean, I don't know, you know, I'm not, I'm not a, what is it, ornithologist

25:22 Luke F. Walton A birder,

25:22 Geneva Harrison or,

25:22 Luke F. Walton a bird yeah, watcher. Oh yeah,

25:23 Geneva Harrison or

25:23 Luke F. Walton I don't know that fancy word.

25:25 Geneva Harrison whatever it is, you know, like bird has its kind of set of melodies that it speaks, right, or that it sings.

25:32 Geneva Harrison and usually there aren't like necessarily a ton of pitches that they hit there's like a few different pitches and then there's a certain set of rhythms that those typically fall under but the you know the construct of their sentence or their paragraph or whatever it is that they're creating or expressing It's not, you know, it's not following like a, you know, a click.

25:58 Geneva Harrison It's not, there's, it's just little kind of spurts and interjections here and there of these different melodies, rhythmic melodies. And, you know, I think, yeah, being, again, being able to stretch being the grid and to really take your rhythm, your rhythmic sensibility, I think with confidence as a drummer.

26:22 Geneva Harrison you know, that stuff can really help you. And then taking that and applying it to the grid is groove, you know. Oh man, we could get super deep on this.

26:32 Luke F. Walton yeah but i think these these are the fun things because so i have i have some people in my life that uh always tell me like you should make really simple music and i'm like you don't really understand what that what that means whereas like i get where you're coming from like simple music successful music like i understand the through line but it's like a lot of this quote-unquote simple music

26:50 Luke F. Walton music is so so complicated or it's got so much little nuance of like talking

26:55 Geneva Harrison Mm

26:56 Luke F. Walton about

26:56 Geneva Harrison -hmm.

26:56 Luke F. Walton groove like the the dynamic fluctuation of just a 16th note hi-hat even if there's no feel change throughout the entire song to be able to cook the listener and have that 16th note hi-hat

27:09 Luke F. Walton writing along with the vocal and everybody playing together even if it's got three chords i don't know i think that groove complexity even for the quote-unquote simple rhythms is just i don't know just underappreciated maybe in the popular sense but um that's part of the reason why i think the pop music deserves to be in the pantheon of all the other things because there's a lot of quiet complexity

27:34 Geneva Harrison Oh, man. Yeah, I think that is sort of the secret sauce of really good pop music is the subtle nuance of.

27:42 Geneva Harrison variation and variation change maybe unexpected sort of even like harmonic information that's happening like this isn't necessarily my world but I find it really fascinating when you either dissect like a really good pop song you dissect pop song and find all these layers behind you know the curtain of even just like

28:09 Geneva Harrison a really subtle percussion kind of thing, for example, that is so faint in the mix that you, you almost, you do not even recognize it. But then if it's taken out, you're like, whoa, this, this feels a little more flat and you, and you wouldn't have known why if you hadn't kind of peeled the curtain back.

28:31 Luke F. Walton Yeah,

28:31 Geneva Harrison And

28:31 Luke F. Walton yeah.

28:32 Geneva Harrison I think that really good pop music is. has that in there and that's that is sort of the yeah the secret weapon of of it is you know how how do you add these elements these voices these moments that don't take over

28:49 Geneva Harrison you know they don't take over the mix they don't take over the focus and are still adding a lot like I think that that's that's such a fascinating thing to me and I was hanging with a friend a few years ago this guy Luke Melman I don't know if you know him

29:03 Luke F. Walton Yeah, I know he's great he's been on pod totally

29:05 Geneva Harrison yeah Luke he's oh man he's the best talk about pop master you know like I don't remember what we were I don't remember if we were recording something that I was playing percussion or maybe he was helping me with a mix or something like that and I had you know it was just like this wall of sound super fun cool thing that I was working on but he you know he sat down with me and I was just like what would you do like what you know I'm just curious like how you would treat this mix

29:31 Geneva Harrison It was really interesting to see what he did with it and one of the things was he took some of that rhythmic information and he really dialed it down which at first I was like oh no I'm gonna miss it and then I was like no no no actually yeah genius I mean he tucked it away and it's still there but it it's not like in your face

29:50 Luke F. Walton Yeah,

29:51 Geneva Harrison slamming everything and it's okay it'll still be there you know it

29:57 Luke F. Walton yeah.

29:57 Geneva Harrison doesn't need to be in the forefront. And it created so much more depth in

30:03 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

30:03 Geneva Harrison the mix. There were things replaced in such an incredible way that it helped you to experience the song even better.

30:13 Luke F. Walton Yes.

30:13 Geneva Harrison I find that also just fascinating, the mixing process and how that can. change every i mean that can really like affect obviously the perception of the song but just like whether a song is is good or not in some ways you know yeah

30:28 Luke F. Walton Totally, totally. Sorry to interrupt this very important broadcast, but it's time for one more advertisement for myself for this podcast. What I'm asking for is for you to rate it five stars, share it with your friends. This is like the most important thing for this podcast to grow. So if you want to do this, you go onto the podcast screen, right?

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31:13 Geneva Harrison Yeah.

31:13 Luke F. Walton No, it's amazing. And just like it is so much of mixing is focal point. like you

31:19 Geneva Harrison Mm-hmm.

31:20 Luke F. Walton can do whatever you want to sounds and compression and stuff like that like ultimately it's mixing is deciding what is the loudest thing right now what is the listener focusing on what's foreground what's background how where are things placed in the width like one of my favorite things is like a the beatles uh super loud tambourine that would come in just like smack you up upside the face and like you have that contrasted with like the tiniest little egg shaker

31:44 Luke F. Walton you know like these

31:45 Geneva Harrison Yeah,

31:45 Luke F. Walton like little

31:45 Geneva Harrison yeah,

31:45 Luke F. Walton those little

31:46 Geneva Harrison yeah.

31:46 Luke F. Walton moments you can apply to modern music um and i think have those like sparks like you're saying like unexpected it's something that's simple maybe like a really simple tambourine part but the volume or the just like general sonics of that simple thing end up elevating or focusing the song in a really fun way um but yeah it's fun you just have all these little levers with mixing you have all these levers with music and then it's choosing like what are you going to deploy what are you going to use

32:10 Luke F. Walton at a given moment what's the journey of the song because it's a linear art form and I think that's so cool and the thing that I really want to talk to you about is how do you dance to the music because I think that's like a missing part and one of my favorite things I think as a producer as an artist whatever so even if it's not has a traditional dance associated to it it's like there's always a part of your body

32:32 Luke F. Walton that you remove in pop music at least or in whatever like music with a pulse but most music has a pulse like there's a part of your body that you're going to naturally move in a certain way from the song and are you like I don't know, like, do you like that? If not, how are you going to change the rhythm? I think that that's like a conversation that I want to have more, you know?

32:53 Geneva Harrison Yeah, big time. I mean, again, you're talking to a drummer, so dance is,

32:57 Luke F. Walton Yes.

32:58 Geneva Harrison I mean, that's, you know, that is like ancient connection is,

33:02 Luke F. Walton Right.

33:02 Geneva Harrison you know, vocals, drumming and dancing, you know, that's those are just like the three most innate, you know, kind of kinds of expressions we have, even if even if you're Even if you're just clapping, you know. It's funny, I grew up dancing. That was like something that I did as a kid. I started at a very young age tap dancing, like at the age of like two or three.

33:23 Luke F. Walton That's

33:23 Geneva Harrison My mom started

33:24 Luke F. Walton awesome.

33:24 Geneva Harrison me hella young. Yeah.

33:26 Luke F. Walton Wow.

33:27 Geneva Harrison And my young childhood was full of dancing. So you asked a great question for me because it's great foundational. I actually don't, I don't think I would have.

33:37 Geneva Harrison been a drummer if I hadn't started as a dancer piano was my first instrument but I think you know I think I pushed towards percussion at a certain age but you know around that time I was listening to a lot of Latin music how you want your body to feel amidst that is is pretty crucial to like

33:58 Geneva Harrison you know what that song is going to sound like I mean sure yeah I definitely am drawn to styles of music that are all about moving yeah

34:05 Luke F. Walton totally but i think that's part of what's missing is like we always talk or in the popular culture there's a lot of conversation of like what does the song make me feel but like equally or maybe more important is like how does it make me move and i think that's where the like make it sound more green kind of comes from is it's not like the the classic funny note to a mix or whatever i think

34:25 Geneva Harrison Yeah.

34:26 Luke F. Walton a lot of that is just trying to find the language of movement and like culture and like where it's taking you and so you throw it out like with a random color or effect but a lot of that is is like hey it's not making me necessarily it's not necessarily an emotion that i'm trying to get you out like more happy or sad it's like i'm trying to find something else that makes my body move that makes me viscerally react in a way that isn't just emotional and the like

34:51 Luke F. Walton Verbal sense.

34:53 Geneva Harrison Yeah, I mean, I think that is why I love, you know, this idea of kind of elastic groove,

34:58 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

34:59 Geneva Harrison elastic rhythm so much is because I have found spaces where music like that makes me move in really interesting ways that I enjoy expressing my physical self as. And I think that's maybe what.

35:16 Geneva Harrison super super drew me towards like J Dilla and you know Chris Dave's playing and a lot of hip-hop and you know beat based music is It's so fun to dance to because

35:31 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

35:32 Geneva Harrison it breaks it breaks open kind of these new like parts of your body that can move along with those sounds. What a rich, colorful way to express, you know, yet I think the relationship between rhythm, body movement is so incredibly key.

35:52 Geneva Harrison at least to how i want to feel in the world you know um and i and i mean as a drummer i i will never feel as good about what i'm doing as when i'm making people dance

36:08 Luke F. Walton No

36:08 Geneva Harrison like if people are moving then that's all you that's all you need you know like that's you know that's like

36:17 Geneva Harrison pretty crucial people aren't moving then it's probably you probably got to go practice a little more or something you know I don't know you know saying this to myself but like

36:26 Luke F. Walton yeah well yeah

36:27 Geneva Harrison maybe that's not the groove for this one I don't know yeah

36:29 Luke F. Walton sometimes it depends on where you're playing there

36:32 Geneva Harrison this is this

36:33 Luke F. Walton are some cities

36:33 Geneva Harrison is very

36:33 Luke F. Walton that are

36:34 Geneva Harrison true

36:34 Luke F. Walton a little more

36:34 Geneva Harrison yeah that's that's so true that is so true oh that's man that's another I mean that's another layer to it too you know like what what places are you know what places are a little more open and free with

36:47 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

36:47 Geneva Harrison moving their body

36:48 Luke F. Walton Right.

36:48 Geneva Harrison and you know and some places will surprise you I've

36:51 Luke F. Walton Oh,

36:51 Geneva Harrison had some yeah. wild shows in the middle of nowhere you know like

36:54 Luke F. Walton Oh, yeah.

36:54 Geneva Harrison some

36:54 Luke F. Walton Exactly.

36:55 Geneva Harrison of the best you know you're just like oh you'd think the people in the city would be a little more rowdy I definitely there's certain places that I enjoy playing more than others because of that you know just like oh man people can cut loose they're having a good time yeah

37:09 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

37:09 Geneva Harrison yeah

37:10 Luke F. Walton Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

37:11 Geneva Harrison Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I've lived a lot in my life in Miami, Florida, and dance is such a huge, such a huge part of culture down there, whether it's, you know, from traditional like ends of things or just the nightlife scene there, you know, I think they kind of go hand in hand maybe in a lot of ways. uh there's so much dancing happening you know um

37:39 Luke F. Walton yeah makes

37:39 Geneva Harrison which really lends to a lot of music centered around dance being um

37:44 Luke F. Walton total sense

37:44 Geneva Harrison pretty

37:45 Luke F. Walton sounds

37:45 Geneva Harrison prominent but yeah it's such a great place if anyone in the states wants to travel somewhere in the states to go find a lot of that that's a great place to go yeah

37:55 Luke F. Walton great to me sounds awesome as a percussionist um are you and also as a dancer are you watching the dancers like especially if somebody's like maybe

38:04 Luke F. Walton maybe a professional or like accompanying you how how does that work from your perspective like i know what it's like as a musician like i'm watching the drummer or i'm listening to the bassist or i'm checking the mds for cues or whatever is there a similar relationship to the dancer how does that how does that kind of look from your chair

38:22 Geneva Harrison Yeah, that's a great question. For me and my experience, I mean, I think it depends on the style of music and maybe what your function is in the music as the musician. I mean, I definitely thrive off of in whatever context, if there's kind of like hive motion, if like

38:39 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

38:40 Geneva Harrison the room is going, you know, that certainly is, I think, a pretty. Like I feed off of that energy. I think with like particular dancers, yeah, maybe depends depends on the music or the artistic context.

38:54 Geneva Harrison You know, in some in some styles of Latin music, which I, you know, styles that I'm not necessarily like like Bomba from Puerto Rico, I barely scratched the surface of any of that stuff. But that's a style of music where the drummer and the dancer are literally cuing. each other to play or dance certain things it's

39:15 Luke F. Walton Cool.

39:15 Geneva Harrison really that the dancer is cuing the drummer like certain dance moves cue particular rhythms so you have to be really quick on your toes with that stuff I've never done that personally I've been shown and taught like some rhythms but not in the context with a dancer being present I think that takes like a really long time

39:33 Luke F. Walton Oh,

39:33 Geneva Harrison to like

39:33 Luke F. Walton I bet.

39:33 Geneva Harrison get down yeah like

39:35 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

39:35 Geneva Harrison you got to be ready for it you know

39:38 Luke F. Walton Yeah. visual communication while you're doing auditory stuff man that's like that sounds like a ton to juggle yeah

39:45 Geneva Harrison Yeah, and anticipation. Oh, yeah,

39:48 Luke F. Walton that's

39:48 Geneva Harrison for sure.

39:48 Luke F. Walton so right sure

39:49 Geneva Harrison I mean, yeah, I mean, talk about that, talk about that sort of amoebic kind of flow that you might have in a band. That is, I think, probably. like hella true in

39:58 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

39:59 Geneva Harrison that context you know

40:00 Luke F. Walton Yes.

40:00 Geneva Harrison yeah and I mean I've also seen like some Sabar drumming and Senegalese dance and stuff and it's kind of similar sort of similar I don't know that there's I don't know at all if there's like certain movements that trigger rhythms or vice versa but they're but in a lot of you know traditional kinds of music where a hand drummer is present with dancers there's

40:22 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

40:22 Geneva Harrison certainly It's soloing. as a percussionist is very much driven by the dancer and in that kind of context I'm speaking very broadly right now there are specific examples of this some Afro-Cuban music you know I believe the the sabar drumming and from Senegal even even in like you know samba or some like northern or Bahian styles of music when a particular dancer is like going off the percussionist the soloist is

40:53 Geneva Harrison This is going off and you're kind of vibing on each other's energy, you

40:57 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

40:57 Geneva Harrison know, you're kind of self-expressing based on each other's. where you're both at having a conversation, you know, the context that I've probably done a good bit of that, like on a performance level, you know, in front of an audience and stuff like that is actually in the context of like contemporary and modern dance where,

41:15 Geneva Harrison and I've done it in different contexts where there's sort of a very set track of what you're playing to the movement that is, you know, being performed on stage. But the creative process of how you land there is very organic. and just kind of like especially

41:31 Luke F. Walton Cool.

41:31 Geneva Harrison as a percussionist can be super super fun because it might be very It might be very abstract where you're using color and texture with percussion more so than rhythm per se to sort of express sound based on the movement.

41:50 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

41:51 Geneva Harrison And then sometimes there might be more kind of rhythmic oriented.

41:54 Luke F. Walton Sweet. Love

41:55 Geneva Harrison Yeah,

41:56 Luke F. Walton that.

41:56 Geneva Harrison there's there's so many that that's such a broad,

41:59 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

41:59 Geneva Harrison again, abstract broad sort of palette to work with. I find that choosing your instruments wisely.

42:06 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

42:06 Geneva Harrison your set of instruments so you don't like I'll always come into something like that with so many options and then very quickly I'll be like like I can't do all this I need to I need to hone it down you know like find my yeah find my palette you know find my um yeah you know it's

42:26 Luke F. Walton I

42:26 Geneva Harrison like okay

42:26 Luke F. Walton do always

42:26 Geneva Harrison we're gonna go

42:27 Luke F. Walton get

42:27 Geneva Harrison pastels

42:27 Luke F. Walton a kick I

42:27 Geneva Harrison here yep

42:28 Luke F. Walton get a kick out of the percussionists that have got like 30 different instruments their brain's like what is that they got two in each hand and they're going to Congo it's great

42:37 Geneva Harrison yeah that's I I try to tell myself that as I go along I get better about not going too ham on that kind of thing and then sometimes I will show up to a gig with way too much stuff and I'll just be like man I really didn't need like maybe 20 of these instruments but or maybe

42:58 Luke F. Walton That

42:58 Geneva Harrison I used I used this one thing one time but I'll tell you what it was worth it

43:04 Luke F. Walton was worth it. It was worth it.

43:06 Geneva Harrison Yeah.

43:06 Luke F. Walton I saw somebody they performed and they brought out a theremin for one song and just like got wheeled away. I'm like, that is awesome.

43:17 Geneva Harrison Oh my gosh, you know? Hey man, if you're down to bring it, you

43:22 Luke F. Walton yeah

43:22 Geneva Harrison know?

43:22 Luke F. Walton it's like a gong right like you're not gonna play a gong on every song but every once in a while

43:28 Geneva Harrison That'd be kind of hilarious if you did it the right way every time, but like to just, if there was something kind of tongue-in-cheek about it, you know? But yeah, I don't know. Do you know this percussionist's name is Ciro Baptista? Do you know this guy?

43:42 Luke F. Walton super familiar Uh,

43:44 Geneva Harrison He he's played with so many

43:46 Luke F. Walton yeah,

43:46 Geneva Harrison different people over the years,

43:48 Luke F. Walton okay.

43:48 Geneva Harrison but he I think probably one of the most common gigs that maybe commercially like playing with fish.

43:54 Luke F. Walton Sweet.

43:55 Geneva Harrison But I yeah, he's he's he's a an incredible madman of so many different sounds and the way he I haven't seen him with fish, but I have seen him in a couple of other contexts live.

44:11 Geneva Harrison sort of in like like jazz kind of like with Jeff Parker and Will Blades but like in that kind of context and and it's so great because he's so free with how he plays he'll play groove but for like a like a little bit on like one instrument and then he'll just like switch to another there's something very

44:32 Geneva Harrison flowy and organic and kind of just like oh man what's he pulling out of Mary Poppins bag now like kind

44:38 Luke F. Walton Cool.

44:38 Geneva Harrison of you know it's very entertaining um and it's super cool and he's just floating on his his feeling in that moment of like oh this would be fun to explore right now

44:50 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

44:50 Geneva Harrison you

44:51 Luke F. Walton Yeah. Cool.

44:51 Geneva Harrison know and I it's such a great not enough people do that with percussion honestly I think I think it's very common that people just kind of like they'll stick to their like I got my verse got my shaker you

45:04 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

45:04 Geneva Harrison know oh we're going to the chorus okay I'll play hand drums this time maybe next time we go to the chorus I'll I'll amplify that a little bit with something else but but he's just man he's just like on a great stream of consciousness exploration it's just like too it's too good and he's so good you know But yeah, anyway.

45:27 Luke F. Walton It's such a such a special place. And then also just what percussion can do to the vibe of any groove, elevate it, take it in a totally different place. One of my favorite things ever, ever, ever as a guitarist is soloing with a percussionist because the amount of ideas that I can come up with just like 10 X's because I have another.

45:49 Luke F. Walton kind of person to play off of like i'm always playing off the drummer right like like the bassist is kind of the cradling me and and moving up and down depending on what i'm doing but then to have a percussionist and it's like now i'm fighting this hi-hat and i'm also fighting with this percussionist and they're changing the texture now i can go in a different direction it's so much more than just like now we're going to the ride now which is awesome and satisfying but it at least as a soloist oh my god

46:15 Luke F. Walton so much fun completely changes the vibe and it opens

46:17 Geneva Harrison Oh,

46:18 Luke F. Walton up this

46:18 Geneva Harrison yeah.

46:18 Luke F. Walton launch pad to all these different places it's so cool

46:20 Geneva Harrison Yeah, yeah,

46:21 Luke F. Walton such

46:22 Geneva Harrison it's a such fun. It's a fun world of color, colors,

46:25 Luke F. Walton yes

46:25 Geneva Harrison textures and rhythm, you know, yeah.

46:27 Luke F. Walton totally totally totally

46:29 Geneva Harrison It

46:29 Luke F. Walton yep

46:29 Geneva Harrison can animate things in a very interesting way.

46:33 Luke F. Walton yeah i agree i agree and it's fun i don't know i think i think part of it's because i've spent so much more time as producer mixer

46:40 Luke F. Walton um i'm you know came up as a guitarist but now every time i'm playing i'm still i cannot like leave that behind i'm still i'm so focused on the bigger picture or the larger perspective i'm like a little bit less like i want to get technical i want to show off it's a little bit more like where where is this like amoeba like you're saying going and how can i add a spice of color um even if it's simple or even or if it's complex i'll do it but like the percussionist can allow you to see

47:08 Luke F. Walton almost like yeah you can open a window or you can go down a bizarre corridor that you didn't know was there wouldn't have ever explored without somebody to be like Come on over.

47:17 Geneva Harrison yeah yeah totally I mean yeah there's so many tones you know so many wildly different tones you know I think every instrument you know can can lend to that for sure and I but obviously like you know we we play so many different instruments and you know like and the tones the multiple tones that you can get from each of those little instruments or whatever you know it's just yeah it's a very wide world cornucopia of sound you know

47:45 Geneva Harrison Oh, and I'm glad it tickles people, you know,

47:47 Luke F. Walton Yeah,

47:48 Geneva Harrison it's, it's,

47:48 Luke F. Walton totally.

47:48 Geneva Harrison it's,

47:48 Luke F. Walton It does.

47:49 Geneva Harrison it's not too hard to, it's not too hard to like get people's attention. It's

47:53 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

47:53 Geneva Harrison also like a, because it's such a physical thing,

47:56 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

47:56 Geneva Harrison people see doing it. Yeah. And I think that that's something that's so beautiful about percussion as well is that I think it is, you know, it can be very inviting to people who aren't necessarily professional percussionists. I mean, I think ultimately at the core of it, it's something that we can. that we can all do and

48:12 Luke F. Walton Yeah, agreed.

48:13 Geneva Harrison I think that that's something that's super cool about it I mean I feel this way about singing too I mean I really do think that everyone can sing to some degree you know what I mean and can certainly can use their voice and I think the more we free all of ourselves to realizing that you know whether it's singing or whether it's you know playing shaker or some drum or something like that I think it's

48:36 Geneva Harrison I love that I sit in a world where someone can come up to me after a gig and I can be like, yeah, yeah, hit the thing, you know, like,

48:42 Luke F. Walton yeah cool

48:43 Geneva Harrison oh, I don't know, you know,

48:44 Luke F. Walton it's that's

48:44 Geneva Harrison like, no, like, just just hit it, you know, like literally anyone can like, you know, even if you don't have hands, you could like use your foot and like kick it, whatever, you know.

48:53 Luke F. Walton yeah right yeah

48:55 Geneva Harrison Yeah. Whereas like maybe playing French horn, that's not the case.

48:58 Luke F. Walton yeah true exactly exactly that's a good point and that's also interesting to think about yeah yeah the um the viscerality or like the accessibility of an instrument and then the music that it produces sometimes can uh you know be influenced by that where it's like yeah if you have to the oboe is such a crazy instrument like the amount of effort that you have to put in to be able to just

49:20 Luke F. Walton have the read and put outs out it's like of course you're gonna have some pretty elevated like we're gonna think through the notes are gonna play we're gonna write this out because like i only have so much time on this read i don't want to do it again oh

49:33 Geneva Harrison yeah yeah exactly i mean i think it's you know it's it's very easy to get discouraged with instruments like that you know you have to be so so persistent to uh which you know mad kudos to anyone who plays any of those instruments you really have You have to dedicate yourself to not the immediate instant gratification of it, you know,

49:55 Luke F. Walton it's

49:55 Geneva Harrison like,

49:55 Luke F. Walton a long road

49:56 Geneva Harrison yeah, it's really about the long road and like more power to you, you know, I think, you know, I'm kind of like a vibraphone is such a, that's like one of those instruments that I mean, anyone can have a blast touching because you really, as long as you're not hitting on the node. it's gonna sound good you know

50:17 Luke F. Walton Yeah,

50:17 Geneva Harrison I mean like

50:18 Luke F. Walton right.

50:18 Geneva Harrison it's gonna sound like a vibraphone

50:19 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

50:19 Geneva Harrison you know and I think that that's like Such a fun, cool thing about it.

50:25 Luke F. Walton totally

50:25 Geneva Harrison Yeah, it can break down barriers like right away,

50:28 Luke F. Walton yes

50:28 Geneva Harrison you

50:28 Luke F. Walton yes

50:28 Geneva Harrison know.

50:28 Luke F. Walton that's so true that's so true it's a linear instrument it's fairly easy to understand and then unlimited potential with oh my god the the technical acumen of having four mallets is just so cool to me it's so so cool i

50:43 Geneva Harrison Yeah,

50:44 Luke F. Walton love

50:44 Geneva Harrison weird watching little it fingers, weird little appendages, you know.

50:47 Luke F. Walton totally it feels like one of those like uh you invented an instrument in a dream kind of

50:52 Geneva Harrison Yeah,

50:52 Luke F. Walton like

50:53 Geneva Harrison yeah,

50:53 Luke F. Walton like how who came up with that but it works and it's beautiful and it's amazing yeah

50:57 Geneva Harrison I don't know, you know, there was a time in my younger years when there was kind of this joke going around about how we needed to make mallet fingers, like things that you could like stick on your fingers so you could have mallets on each finger,

51:13 Luke F. Walton oh that

51:13 Geneva Harrison which is kind

51:14 Luke F. Walton sounds like

51:14 Geneva Harrison of

51:14 Luke F. Walton some downstairs at NAMM With people with the knowledge fingers, that sounds great.

51:18 Geneva Harrison You know like why doesn't that exist?

51:21 Luke F. Walton Yeah,

51:21 Geneva Harrison I don't

51:21 Luke F. Walton I

51:21 Geneva Harrison know I

51:22 Luke F. Walton get it. I get

51:23 Geneva Harrison you

51:23 Luke F. Walton it.

51:23 Geneva Harrison probably get some really strong finger muscles doing

51:25 Luke F. Walton Oh,

51:25 Geneva Harrison that

51:25 Luke F. Walton yeah, totally. Just terrible arthritic hands. This is a great segue into my favorite little segment of this show. The show is called Love Music More. Segment is called Love Music Why. I want to ask, why do you love music?

51:43 Geneva Harrison Oh, wow. I was just having this conversation the other day. I mean, I think about it often and it evolves over time, but I think, you know, something that's always resonated with me, but is super at the fore of my mind these days, I really love that not just as someone who is a practitioner of music, but the core of it was from listening to music. I love. that music puts me in a place where I can dream.

52:17 Geneva Harrison And I think it is so incredibly important in our lives to get away from these systems that force us into

52:28 Geneva Harrison a particular way of living our lives how we think we have to live them and and maybe we do because we need to survive but I really love the space that it can put you in as a listener as you know a creator of feeding into this part of reflecting on yourself

52:53 Geneva Harrison and sharing that with other people and experiencing that from other people having that sort of cyclical sharing you know that is happening as listener and creator you know I think it's so incredibly tied to who we are as people and for me the the medium and the art form that really gets me going is music you know and I think you know I think a lot of people really love music you

53:19 Geneva Harrison But I think it's this experiential in the moment activity that I think really drives home, you know, what's important in our lives as abstract as that can sometimes be and as literal as that can be going to a show, being in a room with a bunch of other people and being moved.

53:42 Geneva Harrison together all collectively connecting to something maybe for different reasons but together yeah and that that's one large

53:52 Geneva Harrison Part of it, and always and forever always, I love the cultural depth of music and learning about people different from me, the same as me, whatever that means in so many different ways. I think that it's, for me, it's the great connector in my life to, yeah, just learning about other people and having empathy for other people. Yeah, I think those are the most.

54:19 Geneva Harrison important things for me of why I love music, why I think it's important.

54:24 Luke F. Walton So where can people get in touch, hire you? So see you play easy.

54:29 Geneva Harrison I have a website, GenevaHarrison.com, super, super simple.

54:33 Luke F. Walton Yeah, it's

54:34 Geneva Harrison I also have an Instagram, it's g.meeves, N-E-E-V-S. And those are, that's the only social media I really use. But either of those places you can find either what I'm doing currently, what I have done. I'm not like the most active on social media as far as posting and stuff goes.

54:53 Luke F. Walton not a bad thing

54:54 Geneva Harrison but i'm but i'm out there yeah yeah yeah it's you know talk about push and pull you know having to do the thing but you know also not wanting to take up all your time yeah those are probably the best places i currently live in phoenix arizona um been here for a little over a year so if anyone's in phoenix hit me up um doing doing a lot of recording and producing these days and composing and stuff like that um also touring a bit with a band called Y La Bamba been doing that a bunch

55:23 Geneva Harrison a bunch for the past like year and some change so you might see me out on the road with them at some point um and then yeah other than that i'm out and about in different places playing for random different reasons but by any stretch hit me up anywhere i love connecting with folks even if it's just to grab a drink or talk you know whatever it is so yeah

55:49 Luke F. Walton Well, thank you so much for the conversation. Really enjoyed it.

55:52 Geneva Harrison Yeah, thanks, Gubrick. It's been a pleasure.