Andy Shernoff Interview

2:25 Luke F. Walton What's good everybody? I am Scoobert Doobert. I am joined with Andy Shernoff, who's going to recount an incredible career, new singles, and the adventures of writing in the 70s in New York City. as one of the first punk acts. And I'm so excited to kind of like dig into your career. Welcome. Welcome to the pod, Andy.

2:48 Andy Shernoff Thank you. Thank you for having me. Appreciate it.

2:51 Luke F. Walton No, it's so it's so great to have you on. So I'd love to just kind of start by taking us back to the 70s, just kind of reflecting on that time. What was it like in New York City? How was it different? And then how was it kind of connecting with that community? and building something really from the ground up.

3:09 Andy Shernoff Well first of all you gotta remember uh sex was safe and drugs were cool so it was a whole different uh style of living there

3:18 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

3:18 Andy Shernoff was none of those fears people did drugs and it was there was no danger about it and it was it wasn't wasn't these these pussy drugs they got now everything's a pill you gotta take out in that curse that curse right you gotta take out a needle stick it in your arm a real man

3:38 Luke F. Walton Yes.

3:40 Andy Shernoff Um, well, 70s were unique period in New York City. It was it was literally falling apart. There was a headline in the, I believe it was the Daily News. Ford, General Ford was the president at the time, they were the New York City mayor was looking for a bailout. And

4:04 Luke F. Walton Oh,

4:05 Andy Shernoff forward to New York, drop dead. It was just very high,

4:13 Luke F. Walton my God.

4:14 Andy Shernoff very dangerous. Buildings were just huge swaths of blocks and blocks and blocks of devastated buildings that had been abandoned by their owners. Now, the good thing was that it would meant rents were cheap and

4:37 Luke F. Walton Mm-hmm.

4:37 Andy Shernoff a lot of people

4:38 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

4:38 Andy Shernoff come to New York and

4:39 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

4:40 Andy Shernoff you work a part-time job and pay your $200, $300 a month rent and some people I know had even cheaper rents than that. So it was a lot of ways a very difficult period, but it was certainly a super creative period.

4:59 Andy Shernoff filmmakers artists musicians it was i mean you know i mean we just talk about music but

5:10 Luke F. Walton Yeah,

5:11 Andy Shernoff i

5:11 Luke F. Walton agreed.

5:11 Andy Shernoff mean there were great the best films were made in the 70s and You know, out of the Lower East Side, think of all the great bands that came here. You had Thornton Hedges, you had television, you had the Ramones, you had the Heartbreakers, you had Mick DeVille, you had Blondie, you had the Dictators.

5:31 Luke F. Walton Dictators.

5:34 Andy Shernoff You know, there were a lot of great bands that came out of New York. It was a very exciting period. What was your question again? I think I'm answering it.

5:44 Luke F. Walton You are. I just wanted you to take us back, paint the picture where the

5:48 Andy Shernoff Yeah, I'm painting the picture.

5:49 Luke F. Walton dictators would advance.

5:50 Andy Shernoff Yeah, I got it. I got it. And everybody was young. We were young. I was in my, you know, I was probably 20 years old. You know, dictators made their first record in 1975. We predated it.

6:09 Luke F. Walton Mm

6:09 Andy Shernoff by

6:09 Luke F. Walton -hmm.

6:10 Andy Shernoff that year or

6:11 Luke F. Walton Okay.

6:12 Andy Shernoff was it was coincided but we're the first band to have a record out after the New York Dolls local band local punkish off kilter rock band and uh it was very very exciting period I'm thrilled that I lived through that period and

6:35 Andy Shernoff survived to this day still making music that's that's the greatest blessing of all is that i'm able to make music into my senior citizen years

6:47 Luke F. Walton Oh, that is an incredible thing. It's something I hope to do someday too. So thank you for taking us back. How do you end up forming the Dictators? How do you meet the other guys? And then how do you kind of coalesce around a musical sound?

7:04 Andy Shernoff I was going to school in New Paltz, New York, at the State University of New Paltz. I wasn't really attending college. I was pretty aimless.

7:17 Luke F. Walton Mm-hmm.

7:17 Andy Shernoff And one day, Ross the Boss, who was playing in a local band called Total Crud, comes up to me and says, I'm leaving. Total crud. I'm going to start a new band. And he asked me if I wanted to join. I said, uh, sure, sure. I had never been in this before, but I've got,

7:41 Luke F. Walton Cool.

7:41 Andy Shernoff uh,

7:42 Luke F. Walton Awesome.

7:43 Andy Shernoff we're going to get Scott. Scott was in New York because me and Scott were the biggest rock and roll fans on the planet. I was writing at the time. I was actually writing for Queen magazine and other magazines. And, uh, So we got together, we rented a house in Corahansa, New York for $150 a month, and we started just playing, looking around for drummers. We had a million drummers came in and out of the band, but

8:09 Luke F. Walton Mm-hmm.

8:09 Andy Shernoff we were influenced by just hard rock. The Stooges, the Nuggets album, the Lenny K. Nuggets album was on the turntable all the time. MC5, actually more MC5 than Stooges.

8:24 Luke F. Walton Okay.

8:25 Andy Shernoff think about the stooges there's

8:27 Luke F. Walton Mm hmm.

8:27 Andy Shernoff so few stooges fans in the early 70s that if you get somebody who was a stooges fan it was like oh you're my brother you know we like you know it's like a you're an evangelical christian you meet another evangelical christian you immediately relate to the guy

8:45 Luke F. Walton Right.

8:45 Andy Shernoff so uh

8:46 Luke F. Walton Right. Community.

8:47 Andy Shernoff we were influenced by hard the hard rock not heavy metal Alice

8:53 Luke F. Walton Okay. Yeah.

8:54 Andy Shernoff Cooper we liked love it to death killer so that's the thing that's the time we were kind of shooting for and of course I was the biggest Beach Boy fan in the world at the time but you know you got at the time the popular music was soft rock

9:18 Andy Shernoff uh bands that played you know 20 minute drum solos and it's like a palmer yes uh kansas a lot of bands that i mean these great musicians but they weren't really something we could relate to

9:36 Luke F. Walton Yeah, yeah.

9:38 Andy Shernoff So we decided to become a band that we could relate to, that we like playing music we liked, and we were completely inexperienced. We had never been in a band before.

9:47 Luke F. Walton Mm-hmm.

9:48 Andy Shernoff I'd never played bass before.

9:49 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

9:51 Andy Shernoff But the thing is, when we started the band, I saw the light at the end of the tunnel of my life.

9:59 Luke F. Walton Cool.

10:00 Andy Shernoff You know, all of a sudden I had a purpose, I had a direction. So it was a great moment when we formed the band, and I'm still doing it, whatever that's worth.

10:14 Luke F. Walton Yeah. Well, and I love to the idea of you find community, you coalesce around a vision, and then you co-locate and you listen to the same music.

10:25 Luke F. Walton you know meld together i feel like those are just three great ways to form a band and to build something that can last yeah

10:32 Andy Shernoff I think the best bands are bands that grew up together that, I mean, you take, you know, the Stones, Beatles, Ramones, U2, these guys all grew up together, they were kids together and they all listen to the same music, there's no...

10:50 Andy Shernoff question about the direction dictators uh you know we weren't kids together but we're teenagers together

10:57 Luke F. Walton yeah yeah yeah

10:58 Andy Shernoff and uh we were friends before we had the band and um it's been a blessing we

11:05 Luke F. Walton and then you live together i feel like that can kind of uh simulate

11:07 Andy Shernoff lived together yeah we

11:08 Luke F. Walton the cool

11:09 Andy Shernoff did that because the monkeys did it we would try

11:11 Luke F. Walton yeah

11:11 Andy Shernoff to make a monkey yeah

11:12 Luke F. Walton love that uh that and it's so interesting too to like think okay yeah monkeys and beach boys and then also this hard rock um you know i feel like at a certain point a little bit after this people started to coalesce into the musical camps like i listened to this and i don't listen to that have you ever been that way where it's like you know i'm a guy who makes punk music i listen to punk music i don't listen to other music or have you always just kind of you know been the big world's biggest beach boys fan

11:39 Andy Shernoff Well, Beach Boys were one

11:41 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

11:42 Andy Shernoff of my earliest favorite bands that excited me listening around the radio, and the first record I bought was a Beach Boys record.

11:49 Luke F. Walton Awesome.

11:52 Andy Shernoff You know, I had my opinions. I didn't like certain bands, certain bands you thought I wouldn't like, I did like,

11:58 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

11:58 Andy Shernoff bands you would like, I didn't like. It was... You know, I don't know if, you know, I have no rules on that. I don't believe anybody should have rules on that. But over time, it did coalesce, hey, I'm a metal fan.

12:19 Luke F. Walton Yeah,

12:20 Andy Shernoff Hey,

12:20 Luke F. Walton exactly.

12:20 Andy Shernoff I'm a punk fan. Hey, I'm a, I don't know. There are so many genres today, you know, sub-genres of sub-genres.

12:33 Luke F. Walton Yeah. In terms of kind of. Picking up the bass. So you say yes to this band, you are now a bass player. How do you go from, you know, picking up the bass to recording a year later?

12:49 Andy Shernoff That was amazing. It was a little too quick. I mean, I had to take piano lessons when I was a kid.

12:54 Luke F. Walton Cool.

12:55 Andy Shernoff I was playing guitar in my house. I knew my way around. I take it even music theory when I was in college. So I had it. Some kind of a background in the relationship between notes and I was an avid music fan. So I understood what

13:12 Luke F. Walton Mm hmm.

13:13 Andy Shernoff a good song was.

13:15 Luke F. Walton Mm hmm.

13:16 Andy Shernoff It was ingrained in me. What was your question again? I think I just went

13:21 Luke F. Walton No,

13:21 Andy Shernoff off on

13:21 Luke F. Walton you're

13:21 Andy Shernoff a tangent.

13:21 Luke F. Walton good. Just going going from zero to 60.

13:24 Andy Shernoff Oh,

13:24 Luke F. Walton I want

13:24 Andy Shernoff zero

13:24 Luke F. Walton to hear

13:25 Andy Shernoff to

13:25 Luke F. Walton the

13:25 Andy Shernoff 60.

13:25 Luke F. Walton story. Yeah.

13:26 Andy Shernoff Right. So. I bought my bass February

13:31 Luke F. Walton mm-hmm

13:32 Andy Shernoff 14, 1973, I remember, because I saw David Bowie at Radio City Music. I bought the bass that we buy guitars on 48th Street, Manhattan. Then I went to go see David Bowie at Radio City. It was, you know, two or three blocks away. You know, we were living together. I was thinking, gee, we need a Pete Townshend in the band to

13:59 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

13:59 Andy Shernoff write songs. And I said, hey, I'll be Pete Townshend.

14:03 Luke F. Walton Yes.

14:03 Andy Shernoff I started writing songs, and the guys in the band liked it. And the guys in the band encouraged me.

14:08 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

14:09 Andy Shernoff Put a bunch of songs together, and we invited Sandy Perlman up to see us. We knew Sandy Perlman because he managed the Boys to Cult.

14:19 Luke F. Walton Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

14:20 Andy Shernoff I'm a big fan of the Pulitzer School,

14:22 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

14:22 Andy Shernoff still am.

14:22 Luke F. Walton Totally agreed.

14:23 Andy Shernoff The earlier records, I don't like the recent records as much. And he, I don't know what he's doing, I have no idea, because we were complete amateurs. He goes, hey, come down to New York, let's do a demo and see and try to get you guys a record deal. I mean, this is ridiculous.

14:44 Luke F. Walton Cool. That is.

14:46 Andy Shernoff First, it hadn't even been a band a year.

14:50 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

14:50 Andy Shernoff We got a deal. We did a demo. Demo is available on our album, Everyday Saturday, which is sort of like the odds and sods. of the dictators we just emptied the emptied the vaults

15:05 Luke F. Walton Cool. Yeah

15:06 Andy Shernoff uh one of the songs actually one of the most played songs on spotify it's our song man or the version master race rock on the demo it's actually better than the album The album had a better drummer on the demo. I

15:21 Luke F. Walton Mm

15:21 Andy Shernoff have

15:21 Luke F. Walton hmm.

15:22 Andy Shernoff problems with the first album. But we had a vision.

15:35 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

15:36 Andy Shernoff We followed someone in the vision. and it was a vision that was a little prophetic you

15:43 Luke F. Walton Mm

15:43 Andy Shernoff know soon

15:43 Luke F. Walton hmm.

15:43 Andy Shernoff came the Ramones long came the clash long came the six but the similar attitude

15:48 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

15:48 Andy Shernoff towards music you know we're not exactly the same maybe they were a little more focused a little more maybe they had better singers maybe they had better songs I don't know they were more successful than we are but We were, you know, we helped pave the road for all the

16:06 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

16:06 Andy Shernoff bands that came after us.

16:07 Luke F. Walton Yeah, I love that. Hey everybody, Scoobert Doobert here. I'm excited to announce my new record I, as in the letter I. It is available on all streaming platforms now, as well as on Bandcamp with high-res .wav files. So usually you hear the compressed mp3s or things to the streaming services. These .wav files, they sound the best. They absolutely do. It is science.

16:29 Luke F. Walton I'm actually going to be posting a blog article about why waves sound better than MP3s, and that leads me to my next topic. I started a blog, and we are pressing vinyl. So whoever is subscribed to the blog is going to get first dibs on the limited edition vinyls. We're talking like some super, super limited edition.

16:46 Luke F. Walton I think they're only doing like 10 or 15 of the, you know, top shelf stuff, and then there will be other really cool colorways as well. But the whole vinyl run is not that big because I'm not that big, you know. Hopefully someday we'll be able to press more.

16:57 Luke F. Walton but until then you gotta you gotta jump on it now so join the blog join that mailing list it's all free and then you'll be able to get first dibs on that vinyl of i as it's being pressed and on that blog we're also going to be doing stuff for like show notes and other musical topics that require a little bit more visual component so for example i just did a pod not too long ago on musical notation throughout the history be kind of cool to see like

17:24 Luke F. Walton what it actually looks like throughout history, right? And that's what the blog's here for. It'll hit your emails just like every Tuesday morning is kind of what we're looking at. And it'll just be a nice extra little way to love music more, expand the understanding from the podcast, and also hook you up with some exclusive perks like first dibs on vinyl records.

17:45 Luke F. Walton So anyway, check out the new music. Hopefully subscribe to that sub stack. You'll find the link in my show notes or you could go to love.

17:51 Luke F. Walton love music more.substack.com to sign up today and we'll uh we'll send you some emails so enjoy the music and enjoy the rest of the episode can you remember what it felt like going into that studio for the first time and being like we're actually doing this we're actually making our our first demo here yes

18:10 Andy Shernoff I was an arrogant kid.

18:11 Luke F. Walton i love it i

18:13 Andy Shernoff I thought I

18:13 Luke F. Walton love

18:14 Andy Shernoff deserved

18:14 Luke F. Walton it yes

18:14 Andy Shernoff it. I'm serious.

18:15 Luke F. Walton yes

18:15 Andy Shernoff I'm not kidding.

18:16 Luke F. Walton uh-huh

18:17 Andy Shernoff This is it. We're going to be stars.

18:19 Luke F. Walton Hell yeah.

18:20 Andy Shernoff In fact, the failure of the record was kind of a dose of reality, hit me right in the head. But at the time, we thought we, yeah, of course, we're great.

18:30 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

18:31 Andy Shernoff Of course, we're going to make a record.

18:32 Luke F. Walton Uh

18:32 Andy Shernoff It's

18:33 Luke F. Walton -huh.

18:33 Andy Shernoff going to be a hit. It was a complete sales failure, but the record's been re-released like a dozen times.

18:43 Luke F. Walton Yeah. Yeah.

18:45 Andy Shernoff Since its original release, it's been remixed, it's been, you know, added, you know, all these crazy things to it. But that's what you do when you're 20 years old. You're arrogant, ambitious,

18:56 Luke F. Walton Mm hmm.

18:58 Andy Shernoff and,

18:58 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

18:59 Andy Shernoff you know, the real world hasn't quite entered your field of vision yet.

19:06 Luke F. Walton Totally. Yeah. There's always going to be another one. Yeah. In terms of your writing, so I know that you were writing at the same time about music, about culture.

19:18 Luke F. Walton How was that kind of going on at the same time? Did you start the band and stop writing as much? Were you still writing all the time for the magazines? Or kind of like how did that interaction and kind of span of like the things you were interested in continue? You in these early days of Dictators.

19:40 Andy Shernoff I was writing before the band.

19:42 Luke F. Walton Yeah,

19:42 Andy Shernoff When I

19:42 Luke F. Walton right

19:42 Andy Shernoff saw the band had stopped,

19:43 Luke F. Walton You

19:43 Andy Shernoff I was writing, I actually thought, what am I going to do with my life? Maybe be a rock writer. And I was friends with like Nick Tashi's Lust of Bangs, Richard Meltzer. So they helped get me some work. But, you know, when the... I was doing it to get free records because if Yeah. you were

20:04 Luke F. Walton Oh,

20:05 Andy Shernoff a writer,

20:05 Luke F. Walton yeah.

20:05 Andy Shernoff you get on the list and, you know, every day I was with my parents, it would be a box of records there from all these record companies. It was great.

20:18 Luke F. Walton That is awesome.

20:20 Andy Shernoff So, but when the band started, I stopped. I don't think I looked, I'm not really a good writer. I was forcing myself.

20:28 Andy Shernoff to uh to do these things and i wasn't i just i wasn't really my something for me there was something to do with the time had

20:36 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

20:37 Andy Shernoff my ulterior motives

20:39 Luke F. Walton Mm-hmm.

20:40 Andy Shernoff i got to go on a few trips there's

20:42 Luke F. Walton Perks.

20:42 Andy Shernoff some advantages i met a lot of people but

20:45 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

20:45 Andy Shernoff i wasn't going to be a writer i wasn't going to be i want to form the band put it off to the side and i've written a little few things since then but i don't it's not a serious uh advocation for me

21:02 Luke F. Walton So where do you go next with Dictators? So you make this first demo, top of the world, doesn't end up performing as well. Do you then kind of go and you're like, we're going to play live more, we're going to develop more material, we're going to figure out the next steps? How do you kind of like? come out of that and continue the next steps of your career as a

21:25 Andy Shernoff Well,

21:25 Luke F. Walton dictator that's

21:25 Andy Shernoff there was no place to play in New York. If you did original music, there was literally no clubs to play.

21:31 Luke F. Walton crazy really wow

21:32 Andy Shernoff Yes, if you did cover songs,

21:34 Luke F. Walton yeah

21:35 Andy Shernoff you had those clubs.

21:36 Luke F. Walton okay

21:36 Andy Shernoff There was one club called the Coventry in Queens. It was a glam club. We played there often. That eventually closed down.

21:47 Luke F. Walton Mm

21:47 Andy Shernoff All

21:48 Luke F. Walton -hmm.

21:48 Andy Shernoff right, it came out, and there were still no clubs, and then CBGBs opened

21:52 Luke F. Walton Yes.

21:52 Andy Shernoff up.

21:52 Luke F. Walton Yes.

21:53 Andy Shernoff Actually, probably the end of 74, Okay. and it was just a bar. I hadn't even heard of it at the time.

22:04 Luke F. Walton Mm-hmm.

22:05 Andy Shernoff I didn't go there until early 75. Patti Smith started playing there. That's what made it famous.

22:12 Luke F. Walton Cool.

22:12 Andy Shernoff Patti Smith and Television were playing there.

22:14 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

22:15 Andy Shernoff And then we used to see this guy in

22:20 Luke F. Walton Mm-hmm.

22:20 Andy Shernoff the audience of dictators in kind of the back of the school or than everybody, really total geeky looking guy, looked like the guy who got beat up in high school because he was the guy who got beat up in high school. His name was Joey Ramone. It wasn't Ramone yet. Who is Jeff Hyman? That was his real name.

22:40 Luke F. Walton Mm.

22:40 Andy Shernoff And I see a poster on the wall,

22:42 Luke F. Walton Mm-hmm.

22:43 Andy Shernoff not on a wall, on a pole, a telephone pole or something.

22:48 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

22:48 Andy Shernoff And he's in a band.

22:50 Luke F. Walton Yeah. Okay.

22:51 Andy Shernoff And I go,

22:52 Luke F. Walton What

22:52 Andy Shernoff what, this

22:52 Luke F. Walton is that guy?

22:52 Andy Shernoff guy has zero

22:54 Luke F. Walton Yes.

22:54 Andy Shernoff charisma. What the hell is he in a band? And me and Scott went down to see them as CBGBs. There were about 15 people there. Blondie opens up, and Blondie was horrible. I thought they were absolutely terrible. Of course, they ended up being an amazing band, and probably the most successful of all CBGB's bands.

23:16 Luke F. Walton yeah yeah cool

23:18 Andy Shernoff But 15 people in the audience, Ramones come on, they played for 15 minutes, and they were great. I thought they were great immediately.

23:27 Luke F. Walton yeah

23:27 Andy Shernoff Anybody who saw them at the time thought they were great. It was like a breath of fresh air.

23:31 Luke F. Walton awesome

23:32 Andy Shernoff I had no idea they were going to change music. I just said, wow, they're great. And this guy, I'm sorry, my camera's moving there,

23:40 Luke F. Walton No worries, no worries.

23:42 Andy Shernoff who I thought had zero charisma, had a ton of charisma, you know. And that's my first story about seeing the Ramones and going to CBGB's now.

23:54 Andy Shernoff Eventually the Dictators started playing there and the club was getting crowded. Ramones started getting popular. The television started getting a little popular. But the club is still small.

24:02 Luke F. Walton Yes.

24:03 Andy Shernoff You get 150 people in the club. It was packed.

24:06 Luke F. Walton Yes.

24:07 Andy Shernoff Then they renovated the club. They moved the stage further back so you can get an extra 50 to 100 people in the club. It put in a great PA. That's one thing about the club. It had a great PA.

24:22 Andy Shernoff and uh hilly uh encouraged a lot of the original bands he didn't want to pay ass cap or bmi royalties so he said you got if you want to play my club you have to play original music he didn't want to hear cover bands right

24:38 Luke F. Walton yeah for the listeners that don't know basically you play a cover song the people that wrote that song need to get a little bit of money in some of

24:45 Andy Shernoff and

24:45 Luke F. Walton that club

24:45 Andy Shernoff the club has to pay uh the royalty for playing for having these these songs done in their club so uh that's that's that's the story that's

25:03 Luke F. Walton Yeah,

25:03 Andy Shernoff the story how we started playing in cbgb's uh then of course the other bands came along uh

25:09 Luke F. Walton yeah

25:10 Andy Shernoff blondie got great talking heads came to town uh The heartbreakers formed from out of the dolls. Hmm. They were, and, you know, they were stone junkies and fuck ups, but I think their first, I think their record's amazing. Dead Boys came to town. Mink DeVille came to town. He was, you know, maybe the best singer on the scene. I'm missing out on a whole bunch of bands, but.

25:38 Andy Shernoff You know, it was a fantastic time period for music.

25:43 Luke F. Walton It's so interesting, too, that you kind of had like this desert of nowhere to play.

25:47 Luke F. Walton the one venue that you were playing closes down and you get this kind of like oasis that everybody can come to and it's small enough that hey black bear diner i like that spot um um you uh you you're able to kind of all come together and have actually a place to play and it just kind of builds in community because you're seeing the same people around you're watching the other bands you're actually hearing original music and bouncing stuff off of each other do you feel like that those bands were influencing each other in

26:15 Luke F. Walton in like real time as you were seeing something you're like yeah that's pretty cool like maybe we should we should pull something like that into our set or was it just a little bit less like more informal just by being around each other you're kind of learning through osmosis

26:27 Andy Shernoff I think there was a vacuum in music

26:29 Luke F. Walton yeah yeah

26:29 Andy Shernoff that rock and roll had sort of faded away. The raw three-minute song had been ignored for a few years. And it was time for a comeback. And I think, you know, maybe we were the first band with a record. But I think the Sparks were... Where

26:52 Luke F. Walton Mm

26:53 Andy Shernoff everybody's brain was going in

26:55 Luke F. Walton -hmm.

26:56 Andy Shernoff New York and in London and in Boston and in San Francisco, L.A., even Toronto started. There were people who were starting to think along the same way. Now, maybe they heard our record, maybe they heard Ramones that made them form a band. People wanted something along those lines for rock and roll. So I think it was going to happen no matter what.

27:27 Andy Shernoff Whether we existed, whether Ramones existed, or the Sex Pistols never existed, it was going to happen. There was a vacuum that had to be filled.

27:40 Luke F. Walton I love it. And then I'm curious about Don't Worry About Me, Joey Ramone's solo record. So how did you end up working with him? Was that through that mutual connection with the band, seeing if it shows? Did you guys get to kind of develop a friendship?

27:54 Andy Shernoff Oh, he was a good friend of mine. I'd been playing with him for years in numerous things. I've been writing songs with him when he wanted to do a solo record.

28:05 Andy Shernoff He asked me to play bass on it, I co-wrote a song with him on it, you know, it was an honor, you know, Ramones are one of my favorite bands, Joey is one of my favorite singers, so, and he was a buddy, you

28:18 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

28:18 Andy Shernoff know, we hung out all the time, and it was, I think it's a good record, really good record, good band, he was sick while we were recording it.

28:33 Luke F. Walton Oh, my God.

28:35 Andy Shernoff He had his leukemia, lymphoma.

28:39 Luke F. Walton Oh, yeah.

28:40 Andy Shernoff As a matter of fact, that cancer he had,

28:43 Luke F. Walton Mm-hmm.

28:44 Andy Shernoff so he was not well,

28:45 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

28:45 Andy Shernoff but he was able to eventually get to come to the studio and get the record done. It took a while.

28:54 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

28:58 Andy Shernoff He actually, this is truth, at the end of 2000, we actually did two shows. We played one show with CBGBs and one show at Continental in New York. He was feeling pretty good.

29:10 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

29:10 Andy Shernoff He didn't want a tour, but it was in remission. And here, I'm going to tell you a very sad story.

29:19 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

29:21 Andy Shernoff He was on some kind of drugs that weakened his bones.

29:26 Luke F. Walton Hmm.

29:27 Andy Shernoff So he was out on a winter in December. He was out there going for a walk in the snow and he slipped and he fell and he broke his hip and to treat his hip they had to take him off the cancer medicine and when that happened the cancer just sort of spread right through his body. you know it was inevitable and he died on april 15th of 2001 i

29:59 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

30:00 Andy Shernoff was with him when he died yeah

30:02 Luke F. Walton Really?

30:02 Andy Shernoff his brother called me up said hey that moves this sunday morning i think you gotta come down this is it and i went down there and it was me arthur vega who's lighting director for the ramones um his mother

30:13 Andy Shernoff who's lighting director for the Ramones, his mother, his mother's boyfriend, Mickey, his brother and Arlene.

30:24 Andy Shernoff mickey's wife and uh mickey put on a a youtube song uh damn it i'm going to forget the name of it in a little while the pain's going to go away something like that i've got the i forget i'm not sure i think that's the title in a little while and uh when bono heard that that was the last song joey That was played as Joey was dying.

30:57 Luke F. Walton Mm.

30:57 Andy Shernoff Literally, his brother put it on and he died.

31:01 Luke F. Walton Mm.

31:02 Andy Shernoff He said, well, it elevated the song because he said he wrote the song about the pain of a hangover.

31:11 Andy Shernoff And so here he is, you know, he makes a song that ended up being, you know, a little bit. special because it was the last song Joey played. Joey was of course was not cognizant but it was played when he took his last breath.

31:33 Luke F. Walton it's amazing how songs like that too can yeah you write it in a certain way right like this is this is coming out of my life experience but the song ends up taking on a life of its own and just like that you know that

31:45 Andy Shernoff Oh,

31:45 Luke F. Walton song will never be

31:46 Andy Shernoff boys,

31:46 Luke F. Walton the same for boys, billy bono

31:47 Andy Shernoff always,

31:47 Luke F. Walton yeah

31:47 Andy Shernoff yeah. First of all, everybody has their own personal interpretation of a song. They don't hear the lyrics, they hear the lyrics differently. And that's the thing about a song, people personalize it, you know? It's a very personal experience, a listener's relationship to music. It means something, it doesn't even have to have lyrics, it's how it hits you.

32:09 Andy Shernoff emotionally one of the most emotional songs i ever heard was uh when david bowie died um rick wakeman who i'm not a fan of by any stretch of the imagination he did an instrumental version of uh what's the name of this song It's a kind of a song affair to the boy with the mousy hair.

32:36 Luke F. Walton Yeah,

32:36 Andy Shernoff What's the song with the

32:37 Luke F. Walton yeah, yeah.

32:38 Andy Shernoff title? It's Life on Mars. Life on Mars.

32:42 Luke F. Walton Life on Mars, yeah.

32:43 Andy Shernoff He just played it on piano. And I don't cry at songs. I cried.

32:51 Luke F. Walton Yeah, yeah.

32:52 Andy Shernoff Of course, it was right after David Bowie died.

32:54 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

32:54 Andy Shernoff I was a big fan of David Bowie.

32:56 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

32:57 Andy Shernoff And, uh, oh God, sorry.

33:00 Luke F. Walton No worries.

33:05 Andy Shernoff Turn this off.

33:06 Luke F. Walton It's okay.

33:08 Andy Shernoff But, uh, you

33:10 Luke F. Walton Yeah, the way things can change.

33:12 Andy Shernoff know, music is magic.

33:15 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

33:17 Andy Shernoff Rick Wakeman playing just a few notes on a piano. make me cry and

33:23 Luke F. Walton yeah and

33:25 Andy Shernoff a song you know it always means something different to everybody uh

33:29 Luke F. Walton and and it and it can change over time too that's that's a that's a tricky

33:36 Andy Shernoff i

33:36 Luke F. Walton thing

33:37 Andy Shernoff i believe sure sure as you change How your relationship to the song can So change.

33:42 Luke F. Walton sorry to interrupt this very important broadcast, but it's time for one more advertisement for myself for this podcast. What I'm asking for is for you to rate it five stars, share it with your friends. This is like the most important thing for this podcast to grow. So if you want to do this, you go into the podcast screen, right? You click on the dot dot dot on Spotify.

34:01 Luke F. Walton Under there it says rate show and you go and you click it five stars. If you could do that for me, that's the best way for the algorithms all this stuff.

34:08 Luke F. Walton stuff to share it out with the world i know that it's a lot to ask but if you could please please please just please just hit those three dots and then a five star would really help us out and helps us you know get the get the word out and spread the love of music so thank you if you're listening on youtube you know what to do like subscribe all that good stuff thank you so much and here's the rest of the episode i'm curious uh as somebody that's seen the evolution the whole arc of kind of punk music

34:33 Luke F. Walton Where do you think it's at today? What do you think is like the most punk thing today? Where do you think the genre, the ethos, where do you think we've kind of come to here in 2024?

34:45 Andy Shernoff I don't know. Is there punk music today? I'm not sure. I think, I don't know. I honestly don't have an answer for you. I'm not, I'm a little out of the loop.

34:58 Luke F. Walton Let me send you one band. Let me send you one band. They're four women out of Japan called Otoboke Beaver.

35:05 Andy Shernoff Mm-hmm.

35:05 Luke F. Walton And I went to one of their shows and it was just, it was a proper punk show. It was just electric. It was awesome. And they're just these small Japanese women that are embodying the same spirit. I thought it was awesome. So I'll send it to you after this.

35:21 Andy Shernoff Yeah, Japan has a way of taking things in and synthesizing

35:25 Luke F. Walton Yep.

35:26 Andy Shernoff it out Total. in an interesting manner. I've been to Japan. I think it's actually a fantastic country and the people are great. People are the most honorable people I've ever seen on the planet. And they're just wonderful people. Um, but I can't say I know what,

35:51 Luke F. Walton Mm-hmm.

35:51 Andy Shernoff um, what punk is today, or I don't even know anything about what

35:57 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

35:57 Andy Shernoff the music business is, you know, my, my thing is I like to make music.

36:04 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

36:05 Andy Shernoff Every day I make music is a good day. I'm going to make music. I'm going to write songs. I'm going to play with my band. I'm going to go on tour.

36:14 Andy Shernoff we're gonna make records and as long as i'm doing that i feel like i'm living the right life i'm

36:21 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

36:21 Andy Shernoff lucky i'm gonna retire i'm

36:24 Luke F. Walton Yes.

36:25 Andy Shernoff gonna keep doing this for the rest of my life you know my band may break up everybody can die in the band i'm still going to be playing music maybe it's me on the piano in my house maybe it's recording stuff stuff You know on my own which I've did which I've done

36:42 Luke F. Walton Cool.

36:42 Andy Shernoff You

36:42 Luke F. Walton Yep.

36:43 Andy Shernoff know I've had my solo career is all just me on my own But it's more fun to play with people that's

36:50 Luke F. Walton Yeah,

36:50 Andy Shernoff really the most fun

36:52 Luke F. Walton that is the most fun. So what are you up to now? What are some kind of projects that you're working on? What are some things that you're excited about? Right now.

37:00 Andy Shernoff i don't do i used to produce records i used to do a lot of things i don't do anything except the dictators right now we just put out a new single you go i don't know when you're gonna air this but we have a new song called uh my imaginary friend i think it's really good and we're finishing up an album yeah

37:21 Luke F. Walton Oh, great. I didn't know that. That's awesome.

37:23 Andy Shernoff matter

37:23 Luke F. Walton Cool.

37:24 Andy Shernoff of fact the recording is done It's preparing

37:27 Luke F. Walton Who's

37:27 Andy Shernoff tracks

37:27 Luke F. Walton this?

37:27 Andy Shernoff to be mixed by Stacium, who's

37:31 Luke F. Walton Let's see.

37:32 Andy Shernoff a brilliant, absolutely brilliant mixer and producer, and he had so much, he produced Ramones and his track records, you know, wild love, fantastic, talented guy. To work with him is great. And we're going to be doing some shows with the Damned in the May into

37:54 Luke F. Walton Great.

37:54 Andy Shernoff June on the East Coast. And we wouldn't be playing that except that those shows were too good to pass up.

38:04 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

38:05 Andy Shernoff Records are going to come out. We're going to start playing CC. See what people think. I have no idea, you know. I mean, I don't know. What people think of a man that's been around 50 years,

38:16 Luke F. Walton Mm

38:16 Andy Shernoff we

38:17 Luke F. Walton -hmm. I think you'll be surprised.

38:20 Andy Shernoff shall find out.

38:21 Luke F. Walton Yeah. Yeah. I'm really excited for that.

38:24 Andy Shernoff Oh,

38:24 Luke F. Walton And

38:25 Andy Shernoff thank you.

38:25 Luke F. Walton we'll definitely put out this episode beforehand so that people can get their tickets, get on the record and enjoy this music. So I always kind of towards the tail end of the episode ask every guest this question. So the show is called Love Music More. The segment is called Love Music Why? And so you've already been talking about this, but this

38:45 Andy Shernoff I

38:45 Luke F. Walton is just –

38:45 Andy Shernoff think I answered that

38:46 Luke F. Walton I

38:46 Andy Shernoff question.

38:46 Luke F. Walton think you did. I think you did. But I think my biggest question for you is – Why do you keep the same level of excitement? Why is it that every single day is a good day when you made music? Is it just who you are? Is it something that the music gives to you? What is that?

39:07 Andy Shernoff I'm lucky. I know what I like to do. you know a baseball player if they could play baseball or basketball they would do it every day but they get too old they can't do it a

39:19 Luke F. Walton Right?

39:19 Andy Shernoff musician can always do it and you can do it on your own and when you play with other people it's the feeling is magical for me you know i like rehearsing i like writing songs i like working arrangements out i like playing you know now i don't like traveling to play

39:41 Andy Shernoff get in the van get on a plane stay in a hotel i prefer staying in my own sleeping in my own bed but uh it's all worth it to get up on stage and create this magic called music it's it's it's it's hard to me to describe if you've never done it but you got a drum set i see behind you

40:07 Luke F. Walton I

40:07 Andy Shernoff there so

40:07 Luke F. Walton do. Yep.

40:08 Andy Shernoff you play and

40:09 Luke F. Walton I do.

40:09 Andy Shernoff when you're playing with all you all you need is a bass player or a guitar player one

40:13 Luke F. Walton Exactly.

40:14 Andy Shernoff other person and you're playing and you're having the time of your life that's

40:18 Luke F. Walton So true.

40:21 Andy Shernoff that's what i get every day you know i'm i'm a lucky lucky guy Okay, I wasn't never super successful. You know, I'm a working musician. This is what I call myself.

40:34 Luke F. Walton Yeah, yeah

40:35 Andy Shernoff I've worked my whole life as a musician, never had any big hits, but I, you know, I've continued to work as either a producer or a songwriter or a musician or in a band.

40:50 Andy Shernoff And it's just what I like to do. And I'm lucky that I found something I like to do with my life.

40:59 Luke F. Walton And frankly, that's refreshing, I think, to hear because so many people get into music, especially nowadays, thinking, oh, I'm just one viral hit away from quitting my job and never having to worry about anything for the rest of my life. But if you have that mentality, it's like you're trying to be a lottery winner. But if you have the working musician mentality, it's not about that.

41:18 Luke F. Walton It's I want to make music as much as possible, as many minutes of every single day as possible. And you apply that and yeah, I think that those people end up feeling more fulfilled and have longer careers.

41:33 Andy Shernoff You know, I say I'm almost glad I never had a hit record. Nobody expected me to, you know, come back with a hit record. You know, I just, you know, I've worked with dozens and dozens of bands. I've toured all around the world. I've... You know, you know, I actually make more money for my songs than I used to because there are more outlets, you

41:57 Luke F. Walton Hmm.

41:57 Andy Shernoff know, people playing. But, you know, music is magic. Every day you make music is a good day. I can't imagine a better life than being a musician. And I tell people, tell me, hey, my kid wants to be a musician. I said, oh. encourage them do

42:20 Luke F. Walton Mm-hmm.

42:21 Andy Shernoff it hey

42:21 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

42:21 Andy Shernoff if he wants to be a lawyer or a or a bus driver also he could do what he could do that pays bills and he can come home and play on the weekends and he's going to get tremendous joy out of that so i always encourage my friends when they when they say their kids want to be a musician it's nothing is better

42:47 Luke F. Walton I love that. That's a refreshing take.

42:49 Andy Shernoff Thank you.

42:50 Luke F. Walton Yeah. One final question. Where did the misspelling of your name Adny come from?

42:59 Andy Shernoff I mean, it was a joke. I was in college and I was online. to register for a class or something and somebody said okay what's your name andy shernoff okay how do you spell that meaning my last name and of course i was a wise guy weisenheimer uh i said a d n y make it because she was talking about my last name i told her my first name and then i kept people laughed and i kept it because i was a writer it's way for people to

43:34 Andy Shernoff you know stand out a little bit i don't use it anymore uh i use it as a joke sometimes but that that's the story you know not a great story but kind

43:46 Luke F. Walton I like it. I like it. I was just curious. Where can people get in touch with you or what would you recommend them check out the new single, new dictator single?

43:55 Andy Shernoff i would go to spotify

43:56 Luke F. Walton Cool.

43:58 Andy Shernoff go to spotify and listen to uh um uh my imaginary friend we have a bunch of other new stuff there we've got about four or five new songs um uh let's get the band back together goddamn new york you have a nice day so i think we're making good music

44:21 Luke F. Walton Love

44:21 Andy Shernoff you

44:21 Luke F. Walton it.

44:21 Andy Shernoff know hey website dictators have a website everything is out of date you know it's not something we focus on but you can always contact me through the app and

44:34 Luke F. Walton Cool.

44:34 Andy Shernoff um you know we're what would keep busy matter of fact the quote you know i just got a call that was from my guitar player

44:42 Luke F. Walton sweet

44:42 Andy Shernoff we're trying to go off the new record um and uh we're we're pretty we're pretty uh thankful for the fact that we can still do this 50 years later i mean i never i never imagined that thank

44:56 Luke F. Walton well andy i'll let you get back to uh to the record but thank you so much for joining me for this conversation

45:02 Andy Shernoff you thank you for having me on the show i appreciate it

45:05 Luke F. Walton Very funny.

45:06 Andy Shernoff Let me know when it's going to be broadcast.

45:08 Luke F. Walton You got it. I'll send you a link.