A Step-Up Guide for Spotify Metrics: Shifting Mentality

1:33 What's good?Everybody, Scoobert Doobert here.Welcome back to Love Music More.If you're a music fan, you probably see the numbersgo up and down on people's social medias.But the thing that really dominates the music industryright now and has been for quite a whileis your monthly listener number.Monthly listeners help define whether or notyou get booked for a show, help define whether or notpeople listen to your stuff.

1:57 And there's some actually some really interesting studies.There's a book by Oliver Sacks called This Is Your Brain on Music, a great read. [Editor's note: Daniel Levitin wrote this book. Oliver Sacks wrote Musicophilia.] I highly recommend it.It covers this psychological effectof popularity on music.And what they did is they set up a trial, a study,where individuals rated music.But they manipulated the websiteand the way that that music was presented to the listener.

2:28 And they were able to show that if on the popular charts,these random songs, songs that people had never heard before,were higher on the popular charts,they would have a measurable increasein the way that the audience rated it.Which is such an interesting thing,where if music is this objective art,that wouldn't happen.But it is a cultural art.It is something that we transmit.

2:56 And it's the reason why people wear band shirtsor why there's cultural music.There is an element of community and tribebuilt into the music that you choose to listen toand the music that you choose to share.So if you're going to be putting yourself out thereand sharing music,you're going to feel a little bit more confident and comfortableif that music is already popular.I say all this to validate and also, you know,

3:24 kind of question a little bit,the metric driven music industry that we exist withinis that it is fundamentally altering the waythat we're perceiving musicand the way that we perceive our own music.And I also think that there are some interesting effectswith celebrity that end up deludingand confusing musicians that are trying to break.And this is like the number one thingthat I wanted to share on this podcast

3:47 because in that process of going from 1000 listenersto 10,000 listeners to 100,000 listeners,you often will hear music that is bigger than your musicthat sounds worse.And you go, why?My music's better.But often you are either, you know,overriding your own music because you're familiar with it.That's another effect that Oliver Sacks' booktalked about is familiarity and creases the amountthat you like it.

4:19 So just in the same way that you hear a songon the radio over and over and over againthat starts to grow on you maybe.There's probably an arc to it thoughwhen you hear it too many times, you start to hate it.But the same thing happens with your own music.You're working on it all the time.So you naturally are going to end up liking your musicbecause you hear it all the time,which is also kind of a weird effect

4:40 that you have to think about and try to push back onbecause just because somebody's hitting youwith their record for the first timeand you're having a gut reaction,you're not doing that to your musicin the way that your audience will.And so it's really hardand that's why taking breaks and going outside,going for a walk and not trying to finish everythingin the same day is always good advice

4:58 because it helps you get out and step out of that zoneof just pure repetition.And you're able to see thingswith a little bit of a fresher kind of palette.But back to comparison.So for example, I want to talk about like new music Friday.New music Friday has a really interesting formatto the way that it's all kind of laid out.It's usually like the most famous person leads the top.

5:21 The second most famous person is the next step.And then there's like a really cool good song.And then there's like maybe a terrible rapperor the worst country song you've ever heardor an EDM song with someone screaming that is famousbut you don't know who they arebecause they're famous in Europe.And then you know, just kind of going through thisso you listen to these first few songs,

5:41 you go, my music's better than this.Yeah, but it's like you're outof totally different leg of the race.These people are famous famous.These people are there as the billboardto draw people into the playlist.The general audience to be like,oh, I know that person, I like that person.I like this song in the same waythat those popular charts help drive ratings.It's the same reason why a lot of labels

6:04 will buy fake streams or will buy like back in the day.I guess they probably even do this today toowhere they'd buy their own record.They'd be like, okay, we could buy our own record wholesaleand then report all of those salesand then all of a sudden we have a number one recordand then there's all of those pressthat number one record so and so.And now all of a sudden that record has some buzz

6:24 and now people start to buy itand then you recoup that investmentof buying your own record.You're putting your thumb on the scale.It's terrible.I hate that.I don't do that myself but I understand why labels wouldand why you would use that powerto your advantage if you had all that money.But for people like us,people that are just making music in their housein a spare bedroom or in their own bedroom,

6:47 like most of my music I made on top of my dresserbecause it was easier to sing standing upin front of the dresser.Anyway, I graduated from thatbut that's what I was doing when I was tryingto break out of that thousand-monthly listener kind of tier.And then once I did, all of these doors opened upbecause now all of a sudden you're legitimized.And did the music sound that much better?Probably not.

7:14 It was like in the same space.It was with the same gear.But then also there's this element of like self-confidence.Like you start to see the numbers.You start to see the movement.You're like, oh, maybe I can do better.Or now you're like rubbing shoulders with peoplethat you're like, oh, I really like this person.I don't want to let them down.Or I'm working with an artist that I legitimately love.

7:34 It's like I don't want to ruin their music.So I better step it up.So like there is some effect to that.But I think that fundamentally it is all aboutputting yourself in the right placeand looking at these playlists with the right lens.So in my putting my, say I have a thousand-month listeners,I'm trying to get my music on the new music Friday.And I am comparing myself with the first seven songs.

8:01 And it's like, no, that's not even your game.You're in the last three songs.You're in those spots that they savefor independent artists or for up and coming artists.So trying to find the challenging pop,trying to find the things that people are breaking with.And then using that as a point of comparison.Rather than the things that are the victory laps.And this is something I would definitely

8:21 fell prey to all the time was I'd hear a bandor something and I'd be like, this is so lame.But then I would listen to their first recordand go, oh no wait, that's something.The next music is like four Madagascar sevenand or the title credits to Shrek 24.Like there's just a different reason.And there's also a different vibe when you're at that tier,when you're at that like 100 million monthly listeners.

8:48 A lot of your stuff now is going through committee.Like you are an entity.You have budgets and consultants and focus groups.And so naturally that might not punch youin the chest as much, right?But it's just a different game entirely.It's a different goal set.So try to find the artists that are breaking.Try to find the other artists that have a thousandmonthly listeners that are rocket shipping,

9:13 that have that hockey stick growth and figure out why.And a lot of the times it's because it's taking a riskbut it's nailing it.And it's easy to discount and be like,oh, this one took off because of social media.And if you're not great at social mediaor whatever you have a certain look or vibethat's in the moment, disregard them too.Like who is the most analogous to what you're doingand look at that?

9:44 And I swear nine times out of 10, when I do that,when I look at the people and go, okay, like even like my,my kind of area in terms of where I'm atin terms of career growth, when I listen to the other peoplethat are near me, boy, does it inspire me and push meand make me go, oh, I got to really, really try hard.I got to really step up.I got to do something differentbecause the ones that are succeeding at that tier

10:09 that don't, you know, that have like the same levelof budget and what not that I do.They're getting there because their stuff sounds really goodand it's really cool.And so it's like, well, my stuff's got to sound really goodand really cool.I'm not competing with the famous people.Maybe someday, maybe someday I'll have to deal with committee.That'd be great, but because then I'd have a pool.

10:33 But like then it would just be a different,it would be a different situation.So like yeah, be aware of what's around youbut understand that when you don't have popularityor you don't have budget, you have to get creativein another way.And that's where I go to,I've talked about this a lot on the pod about taste.And I think that taste is the othersuper important component of this type of thinking

11:05 but it is a really dangerous precipice.Like you have to walk, walk this like narrow bridgeand taste can easily make you plummet into pessimismand hating music because you can become a snob.Taste is there to be constantly challenged.And that's one of the best things aboutwhere music's out right now is because you can constantlychallenge yourself.You can like have all of these inputs

11:38 and go down every infinite rabbit holebecause of the access.But a really good example is like somebody like Jay Dilla.So Jay Dilla, if you're not familiar,made a bunch of like hip hop beatsbut his defining factor is that he did off-kilter rhythms.He did some really interesting stuffin terms of where kick drums and snares replacedthat inspired people like Questlove

12:04 and D'Angelo to make some of the best records of all time.And it doesn't come that that musicdoesn't happen without Jay Dilla.But when Jay Dilla was coming up,a lot of people didn't like his musicbecause they didn't get itbecause it didn't fit with their taste.But he's categorically good.He is a pillar of what groove means in the modern day.Without him, it means something else.

12:35 He is like a Newtonian Einstein kind of figure in musicbut he was so divisive.And you can like look at that throughout all thesedifferent times in musical history,even just start to rock and roll.I could talk about it in my love music more sub-stack.You don't want to be on that side of history, hyperpop.Like you don't want to be on the side of historywhere you don't get it, you don't like it.

13:01 You want to like the good stuff.You don't have to like everythingbut it's almost, to me, it's like the difference betweencategorical and universal.If you say categorically I don't like country music,I will say you have a problem if you're a musician.Like I'm sorry but you need to open your ears.That is going to hold you back.But if you have the universal take of,I don't like it when people only sing cliches.

13:32 It's like, okay, great.That's gonna eliminate a whole bunch of country songsbut it's going to do so in a way that doesn't cut you offfrom somebody amazing.Somebody that could open your mind and be like,wow, okay, I need to sprinkle some of that in my musicor I need to sprinkle some of thatif you're just a listener into my life.But having those categorical takesof I do not like XYZ genre

13:54 or I do not like XYZ artist will hold you back.But having universal takes of, you know,this are these are my preferences.I like music this look a little darker.Like that's one of my things is I don't likea bunch of brightness, like shrill.I don't really like screaming very much, you know?But I have exceptions.Those are kind of my like taste palette things.I don't really love cliches in musicbut sometimes it's cool.

14:21 I don't like it when things are recorded poorlybut I also really like it when they're recorded poorlyin a cool way.You know, those kind of things that are inherently illogical.That's okay for tastebecause taste doesn't have to be somethingthat you pin down.And when you do pin it down, you limit yourself.And by limiting yourself, you can slip off of that precipice.And both of those things have to inform

14:55 back to the full circle to what I was talking aboutof how do you become that artist?You have to develop your taste.You have to use that taste on yourselfand you have to not be boundand held in dominion by that taste.You cannot get jaded.If you can do those things and then play the right game,understand who you're actually competing withslash like who are you gonna be in a playlist around

15:21 or who is going to listen to your musicand somebody else's music?You don't have to be an analog.You don't have to be like,I'm like this artist had a baby with that artist.Like I don't like that.But understanding at least vague genre or fan,like a demographic kind of thingdoesn't have to be that strict.It can just be like, yeah, I understandthat if people listen to this artist, that artist

15:44 and that artist, they're probably gonna listen to me.And then I can still take them on a journey.I can take them way over there.But we can have some entry point songsto get over to my lane and then we can all grow together.And then when you do that,and you think of it not as like a strict competitionbut instead as like a communityor a Venn diagram of which you have some shared artists,

16:06 then you can do stuff with those artistsand it can be really cool,like some of the collaborations that I've done.And those can really help you kind of get into that communitybut then also share fans and share experiencesand find those overlaps.But I think that's like kind of my main adviceand I know that it sucks.It would be great if I was just like just spend moneybut like I haven't run Meta ads.

16:30 I haven't been doing all of these thingsthat artists say you need to doin order to get up to 100,000 with those.It's not about that.It's about making music that you feel really strongly about,constantly checking yourself, trying to develop your taste,doing all of this every single dayand understanding where you actually fit.What are you actually doing?And you're not competing with Ed Sheeran.

16:55 Like you're just not, maybe somedaybut just totally different planets.I hope you enjoyed this podcast.If you have any questions, hit me up.I'm most active on Instagram probably.It's scoobertdoobert.pizza.That's also my website scoobertdoobert.pizza.You can hear my music, hit me up.And I hope you enjoyed this episode.Another guest episode coming up next week.Hope you'll go, I hope you'll go.

17:25 I'm just gonna leave that in there, that's so dumb.I hope you guys have a great week.