Sam Durkes Interview

1:30 Luke F. Walton Good, everybody. Welcome back to Love Music More. I am Scoobert Doobert and I am joined with Sam Durkes Welcome to the Pod.

1:38 Sam Durkes Hey, thank you so much, Scoobert. This is awesome.

1:41 Luke F. Walton Super excited to talk. One of the things I wanted to start off with was what it's like to like be touring, figuring out strategy, you know, getting out into like what city do we play? What does this actually look like at a ground level? Because I think a lot of people are like, I want a tour.

1:55 Luke F. Walton yeah yeah how or like where do i even start like yeah it's one thing if you've got a record label or a touring man like you know the agent world and you just kind of go on that path it's another thing if you're like i'm gonna make this happen myself awesome

2:08 Sam Durkes oh yeah no um that's a great question i've done it all because i've been touring for about 20 years so like definitely in those early stages you're doing everything so diy and i can't stress that enough you're not you can't just wait around for for booking agent to contact

2:24 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

2:25 Sam Durkes you and put you on a good support tour or anything like that so a lot of it definitely when i was starting out was we were chicago band but we when we wanted to branch out we branched out to

2:38 Sam Durkes The bands first that we thought of like in Milwaukee that we knew that played Chicago with us or that we just knew of in the scene or Madison. So we weren't going very far because you're not going to make a whole lot of money initially, even though, you know, some of those DIY spots can.

2:53 Sam Durkes pass around a hat and do okay but it is contacting that whatever base you have and starting from there and starting small and knowing that it's you know you keep doing it it's going to build and and i mean that's the idea and yeah reach out to your who's around you that you know already you know

3:14 Luke F. Walton Really good. And then I like that too about like what that two-ish hour circle is from wherever you live.

3:20 Sam Durkes oh yeah absolutely and i mean like if you're on the east coast you got a little easier you know what i mean

3:26 Luke F. Walton So true.

3:26 Sam Durkes like you

3:26 Luke F. Walton Yeah, not a spread

3:27 Sam Durkes can

3:27 Luke F. Walton out.

3:27 Sam Durkes do a lot there um just you know with philly new york boston's not too far um you know and and then on the west coast you really got to be a little bit craftier because some of the drives can be crazy long like you're thinking

3:40 Sam Durkes and oh i'll do la and san francisco that's like a seven hour drive you can't really do that on a show day even though you probably will have to starting out but it's just those things where it's like okay we got to find a spot that's in between you know what i mean

3:55 Luke F. Walton yeah

3:55 Sam Durkes and and yeah that's where the strategy lies for sure

3:58 Luke F. Walton yeah that's really really clever and i it's also one of those classic like europeans don't know how big america is sometimes i feel like east coasters don't know how big the west West Coast is now damn spread out For we are yeah

4:09 Sam Durkes sure. Yeah, no, definitely very true about the Europeans don't know how big American is until they come over here and they're like, it's like I was just touring with a UK band, Modern Woman on this last Ezra tour. We were over in Europe and I was talking to them on one of the late night drives and we were just talking about they haven't toured America yet.

4:30 Sam Durkes And they're like, how long do you think we would reasonably? really need to carve out to do the whole thing and I was like

4:36 Sam Durkes i mean uh six to eight weeks you know what i mean like and that's like you're dirty dogging it you know what i mean you're doing those gnarly runs you know what i mean you're you're

4:46 Luke F. Walton totally

4:46 Sam Durkes driving a couple hours after the show you know oh

4:49 Luke F. Walton yeah seriously

4:50 Sam Durkes yeah it's it's it's very big yeah

4:52 Luke F. Walton for those for those kind of tours are you trading off driving do you hire a driver like what does that look like that sounds exhausting right after the show to hop in the van

5:00 Sam Durkes right i mean like ideally you know it's always good to go out even when you're starting when you're starting out to go out with a friend who's interested in maybe music that like likes promotion or management or just something where they want to get into the industry they're not necessarily like an artist and i or like you know they film or something like

5:18 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

5:18 Sam Durkes that and they just want to break in in a different way you could bring them along and they can help you manage like even doing merch you know what i mean or just helping with driving you know if you're young enough and early enough and you can probably find one of those friends you know what i mean and they're kind of

5:33 Sam Durkes kind of crucial i i remember i can recall like a couple tours specifically like having that buddy who's just like you know what i just quit my job whatever i'll come on the road with you guys you

5:43 Luke F. Walton hell

5:43 Sam Durkes know

5:43 Luke F. Walton yeah

5:43 Sam Durkes what i mean

5:43 Luke F. Walton exactly

5:44 Sam Durkes and i was just like it made such a difference you know just

5:47 Luke F. Walton no i

5:48 Sam Durkes morale mean too

5:48 Luke F. Walton and like the cognitive load morale is a great point too of just like having somebody you can share this with but the cognitive load i feel it when i do sets where i don't have support musicians and i'm kind of like having to

5:59 Luke F. Walton trying to be the tech and also like play the guitar and then switch to the bass and sing and do the tracks and you're like i don't have any room in my brain to actually be a good performer now or like if something goes wrong it is a microchip and it could all explode

6:14 Sam Durkes No, a hundred percent. Yeah, it's exactly like that.

6:17 Luke F. Walton totally and then uh can you tell me a little bit about um some of the different roles that you've played uh touring like from you know drums i see the the The guitar is and I think I see a bass behind you so

6:28 Sam Durkes oh for sure well they're just i'm mainly a drummer for sure i i um i you know these things are just for fun for messing around but um yeah i mean in that regard i've done a lot like i've helped book tours that we've gone on obviously

6:44 Sam Durkes um i've tour managed a bunch of the tours very early on like picking somebody when you don't have that friend but picking somebody in the band sometimes you know the drummer you know what i'm saying it's not ever the lead singer but uh you know unless you're john dwyer but you know picking that somebody and being like okay maybe you can like you know just be like the responsible one on this run and you know what i mean and be like the one who's keeping the spreadsheet because it's always important to keep these things

7:11 Sam Durkes keeping the books from the from the jump is super important tightening up all that stuff and you know just having somebody the point person to like settle up interact with the promoter and just be like you know the generally like you know pleasant to be around you know

7:29 Luke F. Walton Yeah, I'm actually I think that'd be a really cool thing to tell the audience a little bit about the different roles and jobs Sometimes they're collapsed into one person But like the difference between a booking manager, an agent versus a tour manager versus, you know, what it's like to be the drummer in the band, kind of how those different hats, those different roles are split out.

7:48 Sam Durkes oh for sure yeah i mean a lot of people are kind of like what is like yeah the difference between a manager or a tour manager and like a tour manager is just that they're like hired by the band to be

7:59 Sam Durkes The person that handles all the spreadsheets, interfaces with all the promoters, advances all the shows, a lot of times they wear a couple different hats. So they're driving a lot of the time, doing the majority of the driving at least. And, you know, early on, if you can find that person, they're also doing sound.

8:14 Sam Durkes But like, yeah, that person is just on the road with you. And then the booking agent is somebody you have that doesn't come on the road with you, but organizes the routing and organizes all the.

8:25 Sam Durkes the deals you get with the venues or the promoters so they're just the ones that you talk to the first thing when you're like okay i got two weeks here i want to book a tour and they're like okay let's go through what cities we're going to hit

8:40 Sam Durkes so they kind of have an analytical brain like that and also they have great relationships with the promoters and the venues and so that's super important and then you have you know if you can afford it you know and you can bring another crew member the other crew member is the sound person and that person you know if you bring them along then that's fantastic and they also can also do a bit of the driving uh those long drives that the tour manager is definitely just a person who's just like on the road with you that just you

9:06 Sam Durkes It just takes care of everything. They're really, really crucial and you get to know them super well and they need to have such a cool temperament to do that job. It's really not for everybody. It's really hard and to get somebody that does it well is a beautiful thing for sure.

9:26 Luke F. Walton Yes. And actually, I want to ask you about getting paid. So when a band goes and plays a show.

9:33 Luke F. Walton I don't know if a lot of people understand the different ways that the bill can get kind of split up, what an advance is, what like cuts at the door or bar or merch, how all these things kind of interact. I know this has changed also post-pandemic and a lot of clubs are trying to take some percentage of the merch table and merch take. How does that like work out like the economics of it?

9:54 Sam Durkes Yeah, I mean, it's interesting that you brought up the merch thing, but just the basics of it is that like.

10:01 Sam Durkes You know, basically the booking agent is going to contact the venue and they're going to work out. And most times if you are a touring band that's probably gone through there once or twice, you might get a small guarantee and then and then. Once the venue, after all their expenses, recoups that, then they can work on giving you a share of the door or the ticket price. So there's a lot of different ways they do it.

10:30 Sam Durkes Sometimes it's just a flat guarantee. That is what it is. Sometimes it's just the door. So you get no guarantee. That's largely going to happen if you've never been there before. And it's, you know, that's more the promoter and the venue are taking a risk on you is

10:43 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

10:44 Sam Durkes they don't know how many tickets you sell. They have no data on that or anything. frame like that yeah i mean those are the ways you can get paid and then

10:51 Sam Durkes recently more and more venues because they've been bought by maybe the bigger conglomerates or something like that they've been taking merch cuts and i think that's horrible i think that's just wrong you know what i mean like

11:05 Luke F. Walton Oh,

11:05 Sam Durkes we

11:05 Luke F. Walton yeah.

11:06 Sam Durkes don't take bar cuts anymore like it's been you know what i mean like you really don't um that's unless you're like starting out playing in like you know a bar band or something that's different you know what i mean taking a cut of the bar bar but um yeah they're just trying to like squeeze another buck out of these small bands and it's getting just more and more expensive to tour and

11:26 Sam Durkes Yeah, merch is the way to make money a lot of times so like for them to take a cut of that is is pretty gnarly for sure and i've encountered that a lot and they don't care you know what i mean they just don't you know they're like play somewhere else you know what i mean it's kind of that attitude so yeah

11:42 Sam Durkes gnarly. No, it's such a crazy thing because I feel like to fans. you pay the ticket price you think that's going to the band or some percentage of it's going to the band you're like oh ticket prices are so high it's like well yeah

11:55 Sam Durkes i mean there's so many expenses these days and they keep getting higher i mean on the venue side you have they have to hire security we need a lot of secure i mean expenses went up you know

12:07 Sam Durkes even just in the last couple years because we need so much security for these venues we just do i mean it's a sad thing i

12:13 Sam Durkes That don't is know like a sad thing, yeah. it's a sad you know and like i remember the days before you know having to do a security meeting and

12:21 Sam Durkes Yeah. then the days after that and it's just it's it's different and you know on their end it's just also personnel goes up and people are drinking less all this stuff so they have their own expenses that are going up revenue that's not coming in along with the bands have that exact thing and like we're hitting a head right now that's for sure i mean i'm reading more and more about

12:42 Sam Durkes it's hitting the pop world i guess in a big way but yeah it's just you take it out on the fans and that sucks and that's like totally not fair because

12:49 Sam Durkes Yeah. they have to like spend more money you know Right. oh No, totally. One of my buddies toured with them a bit, bassist, his name's Matt for Eagles of Death Metal.

12:59 Sam Durkes right on oh Yeah, but they had a terrible, terrible, but like the security impact that I think

13:07 Sam Durkes my globally god as well as just just absolutely crazy and i don't know things that you would never think of but these are all components and like gas price all these things are felt acutely by touring musicians because they're getting from city to city they're figuring it out they're having to haul gear oh my god one of my um another group of friends they have an awesome band called moon child their entire trailer got taken and all of it

13:33 Sam Durkes incredible gear just gone soundboard priceless missing i priceless one of a kind like i know you hear about that happening thank god it's never happened to me knock on wood but i mean there's nothing you can do there's like nothing you can do you know what i mean if thieves want it they're gonna get it and like you got to park somewhere you

13:54 Sam Durkes you know know what i like mean seriously totally it's and that and that just derails you and that just derails a tour you know what i mean

14:01 Sam Durkes yeah punch in the gut and like you're a big target you're literally leaving the venue and you're putting the stuff into the van and off you go um no and it and you like especially like a starting out band you're not staying in a great neighborhood or a great hotel or anything

14:19 Sam Durkes it's like wherever your friends are living and you're sleeping on not a man and like yeah it's usually the yeah not the best so yeah i hear that you know being like i mean that's like big thing early on was just like being really strategic how we park the car you know what i mean how we park the van it was a big a big concern

14:39 Sam Durkes yeah totally no of course it's such a fascinating thing i just love talking about the obviously

14:45 Luke F. Walton This is a crappy subject, but

14:46 Sam Durkes yeah

14:46 Luke F. Walton like I love talking about the real stuff that goes behind the shows you go see because it's not, I don't know, it's a very small percentage of acts that have everything they need.

14:58 Sam Durkes yeah right for sure and and and the weirdest stuff can go wrong like things you don't even think like you want You need more merch so you get the merch company to the centers of the venue. They say they talk to somebody at the venue and it's been accepted. They say it's at this door. You go to that door. It's not there. that's four boxes of merch you're never going to get back you

15:20 Sam Durkes Yes. know what I mean and you can't sell that and it's just like little things like that are just so like you have to just laugh at it and be like whatever we have to keep going you know what I mean like soldier on but it's just the little things that are just like yeah when you're a touring act when your your show is on the road you know what I mean and I mean there's just so many things that you're you're juggling so many balls you know what I mean so

15:43 Sam Durkes Yeah, yeah absolutely. Absolutely. But it is.

15:46 Luke F. Walton is that it goes back to that community idea of you have a tour touring manager or something that now you have somebody that else can be that rock you can vent with you can figure things out you can call the insurance company whatever you

15:57 Sam Durkes Yeah, right.

15:58 Luke F. Walton you don't just have to put that all on the band when whenever possible don't because the band's trying to you know make people have a great time and have a great night and gosh what a drag yeah

16:09 Sam Durkes it really is a drag yeah but yeah having that touring manager i think is just so So crucial and so it's just so nice to have it's such a luxury, you totally know

16:18 Luke F. Walton i want to hear more about europe uh so curious i think a lot of like our audiences in the united states and so i think they understand what it's like to go on a road trip and then they could think like okay i'm going on a road trip with instruments and stress what's

16:30 Sam Durkes yep yeah

16:31 Luke F. Walton that look like in europe what are the logistics of touring around there are you in a van are you taking trains some some combination flying around what did that look like with ezra

16:39 Sam Durkes a combination of all that i mean we started touring in europe in like 2000 maybe i don't know 14 or something like that and we we really focused a lot of our energy there so we've done it all like we've done tours where yeah we had to take planes

16:54 Sam Durkes trains buses and taxis and like that's crazy and like you know what i mean like really just sleeping in airports and stuff and bus terminals yeah i mean normally you link up with somebody that can drive you around if you're an american band you're going over there you probably not going to drive yourself it's yeah it's weird to drive on the other side in england but also like just europe you just don't know it's different it's older and like you just don't know the roads and stuff

17:20 Sam Durkes stuff and in germany the autobahn is super scary i mean those people are flying down the road so um you know and we've done that we've done a tour where we did it ourselves and we're like we're never doing that again uh you know what that was horrible

17:35 Luke F. Walton That was risky.

17:36 Sam Durkes but uh but largely yeah it's you know you find somebody over there the nice thing about touring europe and i'm excluding england with this but the hospitality is so much better

17:47 Sam Durkes they pride themselves more in it like giving the bands food and drink and just making them feel super welcome and they just have more of just like a bit just starting out in the developing music world yeah just having that they know that that comfort that sense of comfort when you're coming over there makes a huge difference and they know the show will be even better and that's why i feel like a lot of bands break over there first you know but

18:11 Luke F. Walton Totally do.

18:12 Sam Durkes you know england's a bit more like america except

18:15 Luke F. Walton right

18:15 Sam Durkes that they don't give you anything and two drink tickets and the drive is so much shorter you know and at least the size of like illinois so you know or you know until you're getting up to the highlands in scotland everything's pretty pretty close so but yeah i mean it's great i've met some amazing people over there i mean and there's and i know you know i know plenty of bands that have done it like diy too and they have a great time doing that like a lot of my

18:42 Sam Durkes friends are in like metal bands in in oakland and they always do like they link up with these like small booking agents like like dirty dog nitty gritty booking agents that really care and don't

18:56 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

18:56 Sam Durkes care about making any money they book you in the craziest places you know what i mean like it's just cool like they'll put up shows anywhere yeah people turn out it's just like you know it's when people have a little bit of skin in the game they they they like

19:10 Sam Durkes like they do a good job i think yeah with as we've done it all i mean recently we've been more on like the tour bus way of living on on touring that's fantastic i i mean if you can afford it but you know it's great but um it took us you know 12 years to get there so yeah

19:30 Luke F. Walton Overnight success.

19:32 Sam Durkes exactly

19:34 Luke F. Walton incredible yeah tour bus maybe we should talk a little bit about that the the good side uh yeah when you're able to do a tour bus um can you explain how the uh the sides of the bus extend in the parking lot and kind of the ways that yeah how you sleep uh the bunkage all that kind of stuff you know maybe i feel like a lot of people maybe they would have a motorhome or something but a tour bus is fundamentally built a little different

19:59 Sam Durkes It is, it's like... it feels really solid you

20:03 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

20:03 Sam Durkes know what i mean

20:04 Luke F. Walton Yeah,

20:04 Sam Durkes and

20:04 Luke F. Walton totally.

20:04 Sam Durkes um it doesn't really feel like an rv or a winnebago in that regard like it feels like you're like a yeah a building on wheels and um there's a couple different types i've done like the the single story one where you have like a lounge in the front

20:23 Sam Durkes and um there's it's nice there's like a coffee maker and there's a fridge so the nice thing about that is like especially in europe

20:34 Sam Durkes with the hospitality they usually like get your rider so that if you don't use all of it you can bring it on to

20:39 Luke F. Walton Oh,

20:40 Sam Durkes the bus and put it in the refrigerator you know it's just like a simple thing like that right so you can always have like fresh fruit for example yeah and like vegetables i know it's crazy um and it's not just like yeah waking up in like the days in parking lot and being like okay you know a mcmuffin again or whatever worse than that um but like

21:01 Sam Durkes but yeah so you know there's it's it's nice because you can go back there it's your own private spot for the band lounges and stuff like that band and crew but then you have your bunks and that's in the back and the beautiful thing about that is it's dead silent it is supposed to be completely quiet and cold and dark and it's just for sleeping and

21:25 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

21:25 Sam Durkes um everybody really respects that you know

21:28 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

21:28 Sam Durkes what i mean from the jump you know and it's really nice to work together living with people in that way like i don't really have roommates like that anymore so it's kind of that vibe where there's always somebody to chill with and

21:41 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

21:41 Sam Durkes thankfully it's only for like a couple weeks at a time you know what i mean but it's like a sanctuary the bus it's just like a place you can go and it's not the green room and the venue and it's a place where you can just like kind of turn your brain off and do whatever you need to do so it's

21:57 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

21:58 Sam Durkes really nice

21:58 Luke F. Walton Yeah. That is really nice. That is really nice. Yeah. When I first, I only did a few bus tours, but when I first did it, somebody was like, yeah, it's like a little coffin.

22:09 Sam Durkes yeah

22:09 Luke F. Walton And I had amazing sleep.

22:11 Sam Durkes yes i know you really get used to it um you know one of the guys on the last tour we did with modern woman they came on the bus with us we had like a double decker bus and it was pretty cool and one of the dudes the drummer adam of modern woman was like

22:28 Sam Durkes six five and i was like how do you sleep in that he's like actually i sleep better in here than i do at home i don't know why and he's like we had like two days off in london so he went home and he's like i had terrible sleep i had terrible sleep and i was like that's crazy

22:43 Luke F. Walton it's crazy it's crazy embarrassing uh thing when i first went into the bus i was going to sleep with my head first like towards the driver and someone was kind enough to be like no If we rear-end someone, you will break your neck.

22:59 Sam Durkes Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a good thing to promote.

23:03 Luke F. Walton Pro tip,

23:03 Sam Durkes Yeah, for sure. Yeah, pro tip.

23:05 Luke F. Walton be towards the driver.

23:06 Sam Durkes Yeah. Oh, yeah.

23:07 Luke F. Walton All right, interrupt this very important broadcast. What I'm asking for is for you to rate it five stars, share it with your friends. This is like the most important thing for this podcast to grow. So if you want to do this, you go into the podcast screen, right? You click on the dot, dot, dot on Spotify. Under there, it says rate show.

23:23 Luke F. Walton and you go and you click it five stars if you could do that for me that's the best way for the algorithms a lot of stuff to share it out with the world i know that it's a lot to ask but if you could please please please just please just hit those three dots and a five star it would really help us out and helps us you know get the get the word out and spread the love of music so thank you if you're listening on youtube you know what to do like subscribe all that good stuff thank you so much and here's the rest of the episode

23:47 Sam Durkes You know, it's funny like in the bus when you're you know, you fall asleep and then you really leave you really figure out when you reach the city because

23:55 Luke F. Walton yeah totally

23:56 Sam Durkes there's just like all these turns you're like how many we've been turning for like four hours but yeah

24:01 Luke F. Walton that's so true

24:02 Sam Durkes but it's it's really nice and it's um yeah it's just nice to have your own space on tour it's like for wow

24:08 Luke F. Walton sure for sure yeah draw that curtain off

24:10 Sam Durkes yeah yeah

24:11 Luke F. Walton you go yeah it's it is a special thing but it is so funny how you can have that and then the next week you could be in a van again

24:18 Sam Durkes oh yeah For sure. You know what I mean? Yeah, definitely. Yep. Not a linear is jagged all

24:25 Sam Durkes over oh the place. my god That's so and funny. different like territories too because it's like for the ezra band

24:29 Sam Durkes Yeah, we do like pretty good numbers in in europe and uk like we'll do you know 2500 to 3000 tickets in london or something like that and throughout the uk but then when we tour america i mean it's just so much more downsized and everything is just such a shoestring and it's just yeah it's different audiences you know what i mean it's like where you hit

24:50 Sam Durkes You hit and where where things are taking a bit more time so and I see that with a lot of bands

24:54 Sam Durkes That is interesting. And also there's part of it that I think should feel heartwarming to some because it's like they might be playing in their local region or whatever, but they might just not know that their audience is over here.

25:07 Sam Durkes Yeah.

25:07 Luke F. Walton or yeah they think like i'm at this level it's like no actually if you were in france or whatever you would be you know filling up a much larger venue

25:15 Sam Durkes No, 100%. And like when Ezra, the Ezra Furman band first started touring in Europe, it was like a last hurrah. We had been doing two years of touring off this one record that like wasn't hitting in America and we booked a European tour because somebody was like, it's a good idea. And like there's some radio play in England. And then.

25:34 Sam Durkes We were like, all right, cool, we'll do it and then we'll just call it quits, but we went over there

25:39 Sam Durkes we all the shows were sold out and we didn't know you know what i mean Yeah. we turned up and we had just a bunch of radio play on bbc six and that had just turned into something and we had just no idea so yeah to your point it's real weird you know what i mean especially with like you know spotify and stuff like Yeah, that it's

25:56 Luke F. Walton exactly.

25:56 Sam Durkes like or just like digital radio satellite radio is everywhere you know so it's yeah it's cool

26:03 Luke F. Walton Yeah, it is cool and it's crazy and weird.

26:06 Sam Durkes Yeah. it's such a funny industry in terms of like strategy for people that are trying to start out or break into the next stage and i feel like it's kind of hard to know what to do um and like obviously all this stuff changes all the time but if you had any advice that you were going to give to somebody that's like you know Hey, I've been writing songs. I made a record. Where do I go from here?

26:26 Sam Durkes yeah right on i mean i would say just release it and start going at it and start getting your core group together of other bands you want to play with other bands you want to like collaborate with in some way start just building your network you know what i mean and start playing play a lot and you know you can

26:48 Sam Durkes you know you don't even have to be that discernible with the shows just like play you know take them and see if if you can connect with some people or you know at that early stage i mean at any stage really like the most important thing is like connecting with the audience and connecting directly with your fans getting them to feel that connection with you and you grab them one by one you really do you you're not gonna get a bunch all at once that are like

27:14 Sam Durkes Maybe you'll get virality or something like that and a bunch of Instagram subscribers or followers or something, but it's not going to be that core real super fan that or like real fan that's really connects with you on a different level.

27:29 Sam Durkes Yeah, man, it's starting small. It's thinking small with sustainable growth and just figuring out how you can just, yeah, project it up all the way. And that's really with your network, with reaching out and. and getting the human connection out there you know it's just it really is

27:45 Sam Durkes Yeah, good advice. I want to talk a little drums. yeah right on right Some of your favorite influences, some of the people that you channel into like the things you do, especially if it's, you know, two contrasting styles of drummer or time periods and stuff like that would be super curious.

28:01 Sam Durkes on i mean somebody i've been listening to a lot even just like his solo drum stuff is Malcolm Cadoo I mean like he is just the man i mean that little berry record that came out last year two years ago i think it was last year his tones are so good i think he engineered it i mean it's crazy his

28:20 Sam Durkes And feel he engineered is amazing it. his ghost notes are crazy um his snare tone is bonkers i mean everything's bonkers it just sounds so good you know he's using those like old coals or something like that and so yes he's he's like a big super big influence on me and then somebody else like just straight up would be um pat wilson from uh weezer i think

28:45 Luke F. Walton Cool.

28:46 Sam Durkes he rules i

28:48 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

28:48 Sam Durkes mean he there's a fill in say it ain't so and like that wrecked me when i heard that when i first started because that like that record came out maybe a couple a couple years later i started making or started playing drums but like i'm still trying to figure out that feel i just it's so good it's so cool his feel is really nice it's really clean playing pinkerton tones amazing amazing tones you know and he just seems like a cool guy i don't know you know but like yeah those two guys i can definitely

29:21 Sam Durkes and like omar hakim dude Hmm. i think he's like wow wow dude and like he was a kid when he played on that dance the bowie song Yeah, he

29:33 Sam Durkes yeah. was a kid he was like i don't know maybe 20 or something like that like it was so that feel is amazing those drums are crazy and i'm not even the biggest fan of the tones of those but like man his feel is amazing and he's so cool and like Man, he was just so cool and everybody used him back in the day and

29:52 Sam Durkes Yeah. like yeah, he was so yeah, those three are big. What about you? my favorite drummers

29:58 Sam Durkes yeah um yeah oh so i like uh bernard purdy um yeah lewis cole is one of my favorites talking like contrast uh nate smith just

30:09 Sam Durkes oh yeah to hell like yeah talk dude about ghost notes i saw him recently it was it's like unfair the way the way that his like forearms and wrists work i'm like dude how do you do that like i can't practice to be able to do that

30:23 Sam Durkes just you're born with it i don't know i don't believe you practiced at yeah all i think you just got it no he's he's the man yeah

30:29 Sam Durkes why don't we talk about what ghost notes are just in case we've been we've been using this like people know you know you hit a drum big snare like clapping on two and four kind of thing what about the stuff in between

30:39 Sam Durkes right on i mean first of all the term ghost note is so cool So it's cool. just a cool cool like that's you know that's the but yeah what about the stuff in between i mean that's where like the funk comes in you know what i mean that's where you can really play with the timing a bit and really connect your whole beat you know what i mean like um playing around with like the syncopation and just like the you

31:07 Sam Durkes what you're doing with the hi-hat and the snare and um just yeah man just figuring out like a cool groove and like playing with the timing of it all i

31:19 Sam Durkes Yeah. mean that's just you know and like the different velocities you can do is just that's just another element that's a big element you know what i mean that's unlocking like another dimension you got to go easy with the compressor sometimes you

31:32 Sam Durkes yeah know what i mean yeah yeah you do yeah yeah yeah no but i mean like you know it's all cool yeah ghost notes man look them up kids it's the best learn them do some cool stuff with them

31:42 Luke F. Walton even if you're programming you got to put some in

31:44 Sam Durkes you got to put them in i know it's 100 100 yeah no it's it's funny to watching especially people in electronic music get to discover over the course of like when they you know start out to where they end up uh push and pull and placement

32:00 Sam Durkes Oh yeah. and because a lot of things it's like it's on the grid click it and it's it's quantized we're good and that's the way music's supposed to be then you listen to a drummer you're like that feels so much better than what i just programmed

32:12 Sam Durkes Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean... I know I haven't had my stuff set up right now, but I mean like, yeah, exactly. Programming versus the playing. I mean, they each have their own spot,

32:23 Luke F. Walton totally

32:23 Sam Durkes but I mean, oh,

32:24 Luke F. Walton love

32:24 Sam Durkes some

32:24 Luke F. Walton them both yeah

32:25 Sam Durkes of the times it is just like, oh, that's it. I just needed to play it. You

32:29 Luke F. Walton totally

32:29 Sam Durkes know what I mean?

32:29 Luke F. Walton exactly

32:30 Sam Durkes I just needed to make the mistakes. That's all it is. I just need to play kind of worse than the computer and like, that's, that's the glue,

32:38 Luke F. Walton totally

32:38 Sam Durkes you know?

32:38 Luke F. Walton is and like even just within a bar just or just a little shake like um people program the 16th note hi-hat like like single hand kind of 16th note hi-hat style and it's like that will never sound as cool as somebody playing it just

32:54 Sam Durkes Yeah.

32:54 Luke F. Walton never It just will never be as funky.

32:57 Sam Durkes i agree you subconsciously lock into the groove you lock into what other people are playing you

33:03 Luke F. Walton Hmm.

33:03 Sam Durkes don't you know what i mean maybe

33:04 Luke F. Walton Yeah,

33:04 Sam Durkes you're not

33:05 Luke F. Walton I know what you even mean.

33:05 Sam Durkes you're not like thinking about what the bass is playing but

33:08 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

33:08 Sam Durkes i you're you're playing with it you know what i mean you're you're you're locking in and you are you know making that those kind of decisions with them so like that kind of partnership you know with the rhythm section is super important um

33:21 Luke F. Walton totally totally and it's it's like that is the glue that is the funk and it's it's funny because i think some people confuse metronomes with that like people are like oh yeah like old music was cool because it like sped up or slowed down it's like yeah sure that is that can be cool but it's not necessarily an absence of a click or tracks make the groove not good it's like no like

33:42 Luke F. Walton You're making micro decisions. You're dancing with the metronome. It's not necessarily dictating everything you do. I don't know. It's

33:48 Sam Durkes no

33:48 Luke F. Walton one of my pet

33:48 Sam Durkes i

33:48 Luke F. Walton peeves.

33:48 Sam Durkes think that's dancing with the metronome you're playing with the metronome for sure you can make it hit like there's that old carol k clip where she's metronomes on the upbeats

33:58 Luke F. Walton yeah

33:58 Sam Durkes you know what i yeah mean and she's playing with it and you're like whoa that's hip that's hipper so yeah the metronome yeah exactly exactly what you said i totally agree with that yeah

34:08 Luke F. Walton yeah and it's i don't know i think that people have a feeling like it's either the electronic or it's very vintage and flowy and whatever it's like the space in between is so cool um and also like defines what modern music is of like

34:23 Luke F. Walton like recording digitally playing analog and the interface between is where um i don't know like that's where i think we have the most to say nowadays versus like just trying to rehash vintage stuff not

34:34 Sam Durkes oh for sure yeah yeah no

34:36 Luke F. Walton to say that that's bad either like that's

34:38 Sam Durkes i agree i didn't mean like no i i do it all believe you me i love the vintage tones i mean like let's start there you know what i mean like because i'm like that instantly sounds good don't get me wrong Oh,

34:49 Luke F. Walton mm

34:49 Sam Durkes but

34:49 Luke F. Walton -hmm yeah

34:50 Sam Durkes like through more evolution with it, I think that is where you have more to say. I mean,

34:54 Luke F. Walton yeah

34:55 Sam Durkes I totally agree with that. I think that's really cool.

34:57 Luke F. Walton it's just like where the room is in the musical conversation across all the time or whatever it's like but at the same time if i tried to make a straight up motown record i would fail and that could be really cool it's

35:09 Sam Durkes Exactly.

35:09 Luke F. Walton like a way

35:09 Sam Durkes Yeah.

35:10 Luke F. Walton to fail so not saying don't don't try to emulate something because you're probably not going to do a good enough job where you're or

35:15 Sam Durkes yeah

35:15 Luke F. Walton you're not gonna have access to the things you and

35:17 Sam Durkes don't have to stop

35:18 Luke F. Walton yeah it'll sound different then like wolfpack is a cool example of like it does not sound like vintage music it is its own weird over compressed strange

35:27 Sam Durkes thing that's sick for sure it's like they created a vibe for sure and it's awesome and i love how they came to it i think that's what's up yeah

35:34 Luke F. Walton me too me too no it's like yeah it's um reimagining the past as though it were a dream or like i do love that's one of the things that i think is fun in songwriting

35:44 Luke F. Walton songwriting it's like if you're kind of like riffing on something and you try and turn it into the cover song but you don't quite remember exactly everything about the cover song then you come up with a melody that's like reminiscent but it's like oh no that's mine now uh

35:55 Sam Durkes Yeah.

35:55 Luke F. Walton bad memory can be very valuable in creativity curious

36:00 Sam Durkes Oh yeah.

36:00 Luke F. Walton about your uh take on kind of like recording obviously sweet microphone what microphone is that a sennheiser or what am i looking at

36:08 Sam Durkes Yeah, yeah, yeah. MD441.

36:10 Luke F. Walton Cool.

36:11 Sam Durkes Yeah, I like microphones for sure. Yeah, I mean, I do like vintage gear. I don't.

36:17 Luke F. Walton Yeah, exactly. Back you into a corner there.

36:19 Sam Durkes But, you know, a lot of it's really expensive. But yeah,

36:23 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

36:24 Sam Durkes I mean.

36:25 Luke F. Walton I love talking to drummers about this because the instrument itself is so hard to record. So all of the decisions matter a ton. And like you have an image of what you're trying to accomplish.

36:36 Luke F. Walton accomplish and sometimes that sounds very different than necessarily what it sounds like in the room too just super weird a lot of sources like guitar is like pretty pretty much like i'm gonna make the amp sound really good the way that i then i'm gonna put a microphone in front of it drums can be like i don't

36:51 Sam Durkes something a lot of people don't realize when you book like a session in recording so much of the time is dedicated to the drums it's crazy i'm there

37:02 Sam Durkes oh the whole time guitar as you do yeah you do a couple mics in front of it like you said bass you can even do a di whatever obviously vocals take some time but like yes the acoustic instruments take a serious amount of time and a serious amount of just know-how really and experimentation i mean when i'm recording drums on my own i usually like to start with all the mics i'll probably scale it down to probably

37:28 Sam Durkes three or four because

37:28 Luke F. Walton Ooh, but yeah.

37:29 Sam Durkes i'm just kind of like okay i don't really need that because maybe this groove doesn't

37:33 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

37:33 Sam Durkes need a hi-hat mic or something like that and

37:36 Luke F. Walton Totally.

37:36 Sam Durkes and maybe i don't even need two overheads because phasing issues or something like

37:42 Luke F. Walton Sure.

37:42 Sam Durkes that you know what i mean so yeah

37:43 Luke F. Walton Kind of sound,

37:44 Sam Durkes and

37:44 Luke F. Walton yeah.

37:44 Sam Durkes i'm i'm pretty loose and one thing i'll always do though with drums i'll always stick a like a you can call it an elbow mic a crotch mic or whatever mic a versed mic that is just a mic that your shittiest mic mic that you stick like over the top of the kick drum pointed at the snare and crush it with whatever effects you want

38:05 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

38:06 Sam Durkes and blend it in that's just the thing i always do but yeah i'm pretty like when it comes to that stuff i'm like man if it's on me i'm like as few mics as possible but just really good mics and intentional mics like the right mics for the for the thing you know for the sound you're going for but yeah i mean most of it is you have a sound in your mind you want to recreate that you don't but you end up doing something kind of cool anyway and so you're like fuck it that's awesome

38:32 Sam Durkes awesome you know yeah

38:33 Luke F. Walton exactly exactly i mean that's that's exactly what we were talking about with motown right it's the same

38:37 Sam Durkes yeah that's like that is what and like no and like even when you get like the most seasoned old heads like that have been making records since the 80s or the 90s and you go in there and they're like i don't let's fuck around let's put some things here let's put some things there i mean sivlovini used to just like put mics on the ground you know what i mean always just throw them somewhere a stereo pair or something like that and like

39:01 Sam Durkes the last record we did with ezra we did in chicago at narwhal studios with brian deck who's like a legend he's done like a bunch of counting crows records a bunch of like 90s records he was in red red meat that's a sub pop band way back in the day um but like yeah man he was just like let's mess around he's a drummer though you know what i mean

39:24 Luke F. Walton Yeah,

39:24 Sam Durkes so

39:24 Luke F. Walton yeah, yeah, exactly.

39:25 Sam Durkes he was he was down to like kind of mess around um but he obviously had his own way of doing things but

39:31 Sam Durkes he was you know it is just so much experimentation i think that's like such like the fun of it you

39:36 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

39:37 Sam Durkes know it's like an art you know it's less like it's less clinical and just much more of an art

39:43 Luke F. Walton Definitely. Definitely. Especially as you're, I don't know, like I've worked with some engineers that will always do different toms from different kits, like a different rack tom versus floor tom.

39:53 Sam Durkes Oh,

39:53 Luke F. Walton just

39:53 Sam Durkes really?

39:54 Luke F. Walton like a weird unmatched thing

39:55 Sam Durkes Why

39:55 Luke F. Walton why

39:55 Sam Durkes not? Yeah.

39:56 Luke F. Walton not yeah i love the i do actually really like the less mics the better on the drum kit yeah like phasing but also you you're forced to make decisions when you're recording rather than like 50 mics and then later on as a mix engineer you're like Well, there are a hundred different ways I could go. I don't know what the band actually wants, but I have every microphone I could possibly imagine.

40:19 Sam Durkes exactly like i just i i don't i just don't have the patience for it you know what i mean i

40:25 Luke F. Walton Make

40:25 Sam Durkes like making

40:26 Luke F. Walton a call.

40:26 Sam Durkes the decisions i exactly i love making the decisions there like just we're printing this you know what i mean or like even printing effects on stuff is just like let's print it on there we're not changing that that's cool and you need that you know you need those like to kind of anchor the sessions to be like we i know this is cool and

40:45 Luke F. Walton exactly

40:46 Sam Durkes like that's

40:46 Luke F. Walton exactly

40:46 Sam Durkes where that's where we're going to start at when we're mixing you know so yeah

40:50 Luke F. Walton and even when you're mixing you have tools you can pull that up or down in a few different ways so it's not like you're trapped especially because we're in digital like we can clean things up we can gate things we can do whatever but

41:02 Sam Durkes Yeah,

41:03 Luke F. Walton yeah make a decision and then also if you're going to a outside mix engineer they're not starting from zero they're not starting from like no context or what the band's trying to go for trying to like listen to a rough and be like i think that's what they mean you

41:15 Sam Durkes yeah

41:15 Luke F. Walton have a pretty clear roadmap of like no this is what they want make it louder make it better make it hit

41:20 Sam Durkes Yeah, absolutely.

41:20 Luke F. Walton you're just way more successful when you're put in that position versus the position to be like make a thousand decisions before you even start mixing

41:27 Sam Durkes Oh, I know for sure. Like I can't imagine like. what uh like a mixing engineer is working with like in a band like that because there's

41:36 Luke F. Walton Yeah.

41:36 Sam Durkes there's so many different types of personalities out there obviously with mixing engineers and stuff like that

41:41 Luke F. Walton Oh,

41:41 Sam Durkes but i

41:41 Luke F. Walton yeah.

41:41 Sam Durkes know that they just want to get your vibe they're not trying you know what i mean like they're just trying to help you make the best thing that you did you know what i mean the best of it and like anything that you can give them um that shows that you

41:58 Luke F. Walton mm-hmm

41:59 Sam Durkes know or makes it sound like that from the from the jump is super important to them and it's going to be more successful totally

42:04 Luke F. Walton totally i mean like you when you have stems that get leaked or shared or whatever um the ones that turn into really amazing mixes typically sound pretty good when they're delivered to the mix engineer it's like go figure

42:17 Sam Durkes right who knew

42:20 Luke F. Walton but a lot of that comes down to like more with less

42:23 Sam Durkes Right microphone, right players, right time. The other thing with drums that always blows my mind are drum heads and tuning. because i feel like as not a and i'm still not a very good drummer that that is a rabbit hole that can go on forever and i'm like sometimes just scared to look into that pit that's

42:41 Sam Durkes dude this is i'm glad you asked about this because nobody wants to talk about this stuff uh

42:46 Sam Durkes what we're here except for but um i've gotten some good advice from like drum techs that have been on the road with like recently

42:54 Sam Durkes um last year i was on the road with i was playing with the opening band for my morning jacket um

42:59 Sam Durkes Cool. grace cummings and i was talking a lot with their drum tech and he was kind of just giving me like he's like you know what man you kind of just got to get close it depends on the drummer and like what technology you want to use like i have a digital reader and stuff like that i can get very finite it's tough it's tough for sure and it really depends on knowing the right balance between

43:21 Sam Durkes what sound you want the right head and you know even the right hoop can make a difference but at the end of the day strike it tweak it to where you want it where you think sounds good and it's probably pretty much it's close to there but man it is a rabbit hole it's crazy um i yeah so i have this thing what is it called like a drum dial it's the the digital readout one but it clips onto your

43:48 Sam Durkes tom or floor drum hoop and you basically tap around it and it can monitor it just tells you it reads out what you know frequency you're

43:57 Sam Durkes Yeah, cool. running at and for when you're touring it's kind of nice because then you don't ever have to think about the problem is never going to be your drum tuning you

44:06 Sam Durkes Right. Yeah. know what i mean even if you're choking the drums like a bit and whatever like everybody does um

44:12 Sam Durkes it's nice to have that consistency because then your sound engineer's like oh that feedback's coming from something else that's the room that needs to be tuned or whatever um

44:21 Sam Durkes yes that and that's that's a big thing that's really helped with the sound i think um whenever

44:29 Sam Durkes makes sense like you want to hold some things constant when you're on the road because everything

44:32 Sam Durkes you else can totally is changing around you yeah whenever you in every venue's different every venue's different and a lot of them weren't built to be venues originally you

44:41 Sam Durkes Yeah, know what totally. i mean so you're like sound engineer is to your left or like you know upstairs to your left and like if yeah so there's a lot of different variables in that regard so anything you can keep consistent touring is just like definitely with your sound is like crucial it's really important you do that

45:00 Luke F. Walton really really good advice um so the show is called love music more and this segment is called love music why sam Why do you love music?

45:10 Sam Durkes oh man um that's a great question i love music i mean honestly because it brings people together i mean i know that sounds corny but like let's just take touring for example like of you get there

45:23 Sam Durkes and everybody there is for the show they're for the you know the concert they're for the music they all work together to from the morning to the nitty-gritty at night and it's we're all there for a good time and it's it's just working together and it's just a little community everywhere you go and you all have that in common and that's like the reason you're there and i just really love that that the community aspect around music i mean it's just like

45:49 Sam Durkes like listen alone in the conversation you listen any good song like what's on the radio you listen to any like good records or anything like that and nine times out of ten somebody would want to talk about it at least just to pass the time just you know it's so it's just a it's a really cool thing yeah

46:05 Sam Durkes It's a really cool thing and it's fun to like what a cool job, you know what a cool job it's beautiful i mean it's just It's such like an important art art is more important. I mean is more and more important every day and just kind of like landscape politically that we have but and just

46:22 Sam Durkes Yeah, it yeah, it's just super important and Really makes you it brightens your day even in really terrible terrible day. So

46:31 Sam Durkes yeah, yeah, exactly. That's fun to like to think about the texts and all the people that grind so hard building stages building

46:39 Sam Durkes dude truss love and lighting so them dude they're so long cool dude too they're such cool people they're

46:44 Sam Durkes dude they're really rad like they tax the crew always be incredibly nice to the crew they're like the best people and they do that every day and they're you know building the stage every day for a different band and like

46:58 Sam Durkes so like yeah anytime you can shout out your texts or just working with the they're just they're they're cool and just like working with those people man it's just it's fun it's cool everybody's just so nice oh

47:08 Sam Durkes I agree. Yeah, it's a special thing.

47:10 Luke F. Walton So where can people get in touch, hire you, listen to the music that you've been a part of, Instagram?

47:16 Sam Durkes yeah right on um instagram is camaro man uh that's that's c-a-m-a-r-o oh man underscore underscore but yeah you can look me up uh my website is samdurkes.com i got a couple bands um art more i put out a record a couple years ago on anti um you can check us out on spotify whatever and then Ezra Furman there's like seven records where i play on and yeah hit me up um Whatever. Let's talk. Let's chill.

47:48 Sam Durkes Hell yeah. Well, it was fun chilling with you, Sam. It Dude, was a good it was time.

47:51 Sam Durkes great talking to you, Scoobert. It was awesome. Yeah. Until next time, man. Yeah, cheers, man.