{ "schemaVersion": "v1", "slug": "justin-gammella", "title": "Platinum Selling Songs (and How to Make Money as a Songwriter) with Justin Gammella (FINNEAS, Bella Poarch, Bahamas)", "kind": "interview", "listenUrl": "https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/lovemusicmore/episodes/Platinum-Selling-Songs-and-How-to-Make-Money-as-a-Songwriter-with-Justin-Gammella-FINNEAS--Bella-Poarch--Bahamas-e2remdb", "contentStartSec": 100.212, "publishedAt": "2026-10-14", "source": { "provider": "openai", "model": "gpt-4o-transcribe-diarize", "normalizedSchema": "v1", "transcribedAt": "2026-06-09T23:12:34.755Z" }, "paragraphs": [ { "startSec": 100.212, "endSec": 100.212, "text": "Oh", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 100.212, "endSec": 107.662, "text": "What's good, everybody? Welcome back to Love Music More. I am Scoobert Doobert, and I am joined with Justin Gammella. Welcome to the show, my man.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 108.012, "endSec": 110.612, "text": "Hey, thank you for having me. I'm really happy to be here.", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 110.662, "endSec": 123.062, "text": "I'm so excited to talk to you about everything from production to songwriting to your musical journey and also your advocacy and your involvement within the crazy world that is getting songwriters paid.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 123.956, "endSec": 125.206, "text": "Yeah, it's really, it's tough.", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 125.506, "endSec": 126.556, "text": "yeah yeah yeah", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 126.556, "endSec": 132.756, "text": "Honestly, like, you know, having friends who are actors and screenwriters and stuff, we have it the toughest, I can easily say.", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 133.056, "endSec": 154.52599999999998, "text": "i'm so excited to unpack that and i for the for the listeners i think that there is a very common kind of misperception or perception that music is so glamorous that it is a reward unto itself and while i somewhat agree i'll be i'll make music regardless if i get paid or not But maybe that's the problem, right?", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 155.426, "endSec": 165.926, "text": "Yeah, I think because, you know, we all love doing this and we're all so amazed that like, oh my God, like I can make any kind of money doing this.", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 165.926, "endSec": 166.226, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 166.476, "endSec": 177.376, "text": "You know, so many people are prone to just say yes to any kind of deals. And I think whether it's in the pop song writing space or in sync or whatever else, it's been a really.", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 178.324, "endSec": 188.72400000000002, "text": "slow race to the bottom in terms of how we get paid and what we get paid for and what we don't get paid for and how we value our time and our creativity", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 188.72400000000002, "endSec": 189.074, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 189.074, "endSec": 189.87400000000002, "text": "yeah", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 189.87400000000002, "endSec": 203.574, "text": "Yeah. And for the music listeners, you want your artists getting paid because that means that they're going to keep showing up and making the music that you want them to make and not have to go into construction or accounting or all of the usual things that musicians end up fighting their ways into.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 203.824, "endSec": 211.564, "text": "yeah yeah you know it's um You know, we'll talk about it, but the ways how artists and songwriters get paid are similar but different, and", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 211.564, "endSec": 212.01399999999998, "text": "Hmm.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 212.01399999999998, "endSec": 224.214, "text": "we're fighting the same battles, and it all comes down to really these streaming platforms like Spotify and YouTube and Apple and Amazon all paying their fair share, you know?", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 224.916, "endSec": 229.516, "text": "Totally. And understanding, I think, you know, getting fans bought in as well to", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 229.516, "endSec": 229.716, "text": "Exactly.", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 229.716, "endSec": 240.416, "text": "be like, hey, like if I get the premium version of XYZ, that money goes to the artist. But yeah, there's been some rocks in the streams, so to speak.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 240.516, "endSec": 241.716, "text": "For a while.", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 241.916, "endSec": 242.316, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 242.416, "endSec": 242.466, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 242.466, "endSec": 252.266, "text": "So we'll unpack that before we get there, though. I want to I want to talk a little bit about your background. How did you get into songwriting? How did you kind of find your foothold? And also, where are you based currently?", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 252.948, "endSec": 258.198, "text": "So I'm currently based in Los Angeles. I'm in Glendale currently. Love it here. Nice and quiet little neighborhood.", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 258.198, "endSec": 259.398, "text": "Yeah, Glendale rocks.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 259.398, "endSec": 278.498, "text": "Yeah, I'm originally from Long Island, New York. And, you know, I started my music journey. I started playing piano when I was five years old. I classically trained, picked up guitar when I was 10 or 11. And then, you know, around 12, 13, I started having this.", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 278.498, "endSec": 289.212, "text": "It's where I was just kind of writing my own songs and really rebelled against my piano lessons where I was like, I don't want to be playing other people's music anymore. This is stupid.", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 290.512, "endSec": 290.662, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 290.662, "endSec": 315.958, "text": "And I stopped taking piano lessons. I purely focus on guitar lessons and I love my guitar teacher because he, I think he sensed in me that I wanted to write and he really taught me, not proper songwriting, but he taught me how to be creative and, you know, the first form of writing is improvising when you're soloing. And he pushed that so much in me and it was such a great lesson.", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 315.958, "endSec": 327.326, "text": "But from there, you know, I was a... In bands in high school, nothing crazy, always, you know, making records in my room on my crappy computer. I used Sonar because my", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 327.326, "endSec": 328.026, "text": "Yeah, nice.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 328.026, "endSec": 330.276, "text": "dad cracked a version of it somehow and,", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 330.276, "endSec": 330.826, "text": "Awesome.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 330.826, "endSec": 347.226, "text": "you know, went to school and I actually ended up going to college at the University of Buffalo. I was majoring in psychology. And same thing there. I just found my way in the music scene there, joined a band,", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 347.32599999999996, "endSec": 347.376, "text": "Mm", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 347.376, "endSec": 347.776, "text": "did", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 347.776, "endSec": 347.876, "text": "-hmm.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 347.876, "endSec": 356.82599999999996, "text": "the thing there for a little while, graduated in five years because we decided to go touring one semester and I failed that semester. Totally worth it.", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 356.976, "endSec": 357.32599999999996, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 357.32599999999996, "endSec": 365.82599999999996, "text": "And from there, you know, I graduated. I was working at the Jewish community center at the after school program. I was running it. It was honestly an amazing job.", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 365.82599999999996, "endSec": 366.226, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 366.226, "endSec": 384.958, "text": "And all the while I was kind of starting to dip my toes into producing other. Other bands locally in the Buffalo area met this one guy named Aaron Bonus and he was like, yeah, I have some connections in the sync world. You know, you're really talented. We should do some stuff there.", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 385.25800000000004, "endSec": 386.858, "text": "And what is sync, just in case somebody doesn't", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 386.858, "endSec": 387.158, "text": "Yeah,", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 387.158, "endSec": 387.25800000000004, "text": "know?", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 387.25800000000004, "endSec": 400.75, "text": "so sync is the music that you hear in commercials and TV and film, kind of in the background or sometimes it's like a custom made song or sometimes they're like. hey we're looking for at this time it's like we're looking for like an imagine dragons type beat and", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 400.75, "endSec": 401.65, "text": "Okay, okay.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 401.65, "endSec": 407.6, "text": "so they can't they don't want to pay for imagine dragons because that's too much money but they'll pay someone like me to make something similar", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 408.308, "endSec": 420.608, "text": "And through a lot of those briefs, we kind of fell into making a sound and we started a band called Royal Tongues that was buzzy is the best word to describe it.", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 420.608, "endSec": 420.70799999999997, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 420.70799999999997, "endSec": 425.45799999999997, "text": "You know, we got to open for cool bands like Bleachers and Young the Giant and a bunch of other ones.", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 425.45799999999997, "endSec": 425.95799999999997, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 426.644, "endSec": 440.594, "text": "And that got us our first publishing deal, moved out to Los Angeles, and the project lasted not too long. I personally realized, like, I hate being in a band. I love making music. I hate being an artist.", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 441.044, "endSec": 441.094, "text": "I", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 441.094, "endSec": 441.544, "text": "You", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 441.544, "endSec": 441.794, "text": "want to", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 441.794, "endSec": 441.844, "text": "know,", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 441.844, "endSec": 441.944, "text": "unpack", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 441.944, "endSec": 442.194, "text": "I wasn't even", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 442.194, "endSec": 442.244, "text": "that.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 442.244, "endSec": 442.344, "text": "the singer.", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 442.344, "endSec": 445.994, "text": "Let's unpack that a little bit. Let's see if you set psychology degree and unpack that a little bit.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 445.994, "endSec": 446.394, "text": "Right. Yeah,", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 446.394, "endSec": 446.694, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 446.694, "endSec": 450.144, "text": "you know, I just I didn't like touring. I love playing live. I hate touring.", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 450.868, "endSec": 451.018, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 451.018, "endSec": 451.268, "text": "And", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 451.268, "endSec": 451.518, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 451.518, "endSec": 453.718, "text": "being an artist is such a full-time gig,", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 453.718, "endSec": 453.918, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 453.918, "endSec": 461.568, "text": "never mind making the music, but just being an artist Right. is so time-consuming. Yes. And I just realized I was so much happier being in here doing", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 461.568, "endSec": 461.968, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 461.968, "endSec": 462.468, "text": "this.", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 462.468, "endSec": 463.018, "text": "Yeah,", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 463.018, "endSec": 463.168, "text": "Because", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 463.168, "endSec": 463.468, "text": "absolutely.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 463.468, "endSec": 472.418, "text": "when I moved out here, we kind of already wanted to start working with other artists. We were like, oh, we'll be an artist and we'll be kind of a production songwriting duo.", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 472.668, "endSec": 472.818, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 472.818, "endSec": 483.54200000000003, "text": "So I was able to dip my toes in there. But when the project ended, I kept my management and they helped me to transition to being a full-time songwriter producer and you", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 483.54200000000003, "endSec": 483.592, "text": "Very", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 483.592, "endSec": 483.742, "text": "know seven", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 483.742, "endSec": 484.592, "text": "cool. That's cool.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 484.592, "endSec": 486.04200000000003, "text": "eight years later here we are yeah", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 486.04200000000003, "endSec": 508.942, "text": "Yeah, I love that. And I think that the touring bit is very interesting because, yeah, that's another example, I think, of perception reality where you see the band playing the show and that part's awesome, but you don't see the load in, load out. You don't see the we're in the soundcheck and my amp doesn't work anymore. Or, you know, see the tire popped or like this, this band shy,", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 508.942, "endSec": 509.142, "text": "yeah", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 509.142, "endSec": 512.142, "text": "all of their stuff got stolen on tour in America.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 512.142, "endSec": 531.542, "text": "yeah i've heard too many stories i was so anal about i mean i was kind of a dick but i was happy i was where i made everyone completely unload the van and the then the the storage thing every single time i was like we're taking everything out nothing stays in the van you know uh that's and i never got robbed", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 531.828, "endSec": 531.828, "text": "Hey,", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 531.828, "endSec": 532.228, "text": "you know", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 532.228, "endSec": 533.1279999999999, "text": "I know totally", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 533.1279999999999, "endSec": 536.528, "text": "it's it's something like it sucks to do but it's kind of worth it um", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 536.528, "endSec": 538.178, "text": "It happens to so many people yeah", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 538.178, "endSec": 545.778, "text": "yeah touring is like the highest highs and the lowest lows that that's how i describe it and some people love living life like that and i do not", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 546.42, "endSec": 558.67, "text": "i feel like most people do not because it's like if you gave somebody a gig it's like hey uh we're gonna pay you twenty thousand dollars a year and you're gonna be a traveling salesman we're gonna go door-to-door for your entire lives like um yeah", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 558.67, "endSec": 569.42, "text": "right that's what it is and then you know like you get it feels really great when you like uh we did the college circuit and those paid really well and they treated us really well and i was like oh if we could tour like this", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 569.42, "endSec": 569.5699999999999, "text": "right", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 569.5699999999999, "endSec": 569.8199999999999, "text": "touring", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 569.8199999999999, "endSec": 570.42, "text": "exactly would exactly", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 570.42, "endSec": 575.68, "text": "be great but that's not reality you know you only get to that point once you're like a big big star but", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 575.68, "endSec": 577.63, "text": "yeah and then it's totally different it's totally", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 577.63, "endSec": 577.68, "text": "it's", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 577.68, "endSec": 598.342, "text": "different i like i had sideman work and and stuff like that where i was yeah i had the catering and the tour bus and you would you drive so you would finish the gig you get in the tour you shower get in the tour bus fall asleep end up in the next town and the second you wake up there's a hotel room it's like because they bought it the night before so", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 598.342, "endSec": 598.692, "text": "Right.", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 598.692, "endSec": 607.842, "text": "you can go in and finish your sleep and put together your stuff and then you know you prepare for the gig play the gig and then you've got that same hotel room that night it's like well okay that", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 607.842, "endSec": 608.242, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 608.242, "endSec": 608.742, "text": "I can do", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 608.942, "endSec": 614.8, "text": "Yeah. And touring is one of those things that I'm. constantly trying to pound into artists", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 614.8, "endSec": 615.2, "text": "Mm", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 615.2, "endSec": 615.25, "text": "that", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 615.25, "endSec": 615.4, "text": "-hmm.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 615.4, "endSec": 619.85, "text": "i work with heads where it's like for a while because of the pandemic no one was really touring and", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 619.85, "endSec": 620.1, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 620.1, "endSec": 631.816, "text": "i think we got used to relying on tiktok and instagram and social media to promote our music but i'm still old school in the way where it's like I still think touring is the best way to create a real fan base that's", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 631.816, "endSec": 632.216, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 632.216, "endSec": 641.766, "text": "going to want to pay to see you and buy things from you and have a long lasting career versus you release a song, it does well, but no one cares about who you are. They", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 641.766, "endSec": 641.816, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 641.816, "endSec": 642.4159999999999, "text": "care about the song,", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 642.4159999999999, "endSec": 642.516, "text": "Right.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 642.516, "endSec": 643.016, "text": "you", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 643.016, "endSec": 643.116, "text": "Totally.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 643.116, "endSec": 643.266, "text": "know?", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 643.516, "endSec": 643.616, "text": "Totally.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 643.616, "endSec": 644.116, "text": "And yeah.", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 644.116, "endSec": 655.956, "text": "And I'm feeling that with my career too, where I'm getting a little bit of that. I'm trying to answer that though by thinking about like, okay, where does your passion take you? Like, what is the thing that's like, I would be in that van? Japan for Right. me that's Japan where it's", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 655.956, "endSec": 656.006, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 656.006, "endSec": 678.856, "text": "like I'm gonna go I'm gonna go play some random shows in Japan because that's awesome and I'm gonna go do that and that's gonna be great but it's like I'm willing to do that kind of level of thing um and also I think it'd be different too as a songwriter if if you were getting that energy from your fan base like I've seen some uh of the um post-hardcore bands and stuff where like", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 679.796, "endSec": 683.546, "text": "their shows are so fun and engaging and their fans are part of", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 683.546, "endSec": 683.7460000000001, "text": "yeah", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 683.7460000000001, "endSec": 684.1460000000001, "text": "the show", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 684.1460000000001, "endSec": 684.296, "text": "yeah", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 684.296, "endSec": 692.8960000000001, "text": "and the energy that it's like yeah i'd go through hell on earth to reach you guys and so like cultivating that relationship i think that ends up paying dividends and then juices you up so you can keep doing it", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 692.8960000000001, "endSec": 707.912, "text": "yeah i mean that's what that's how i was as a teenager where i was like i was you know into emo bands like taking back sunday and brand new and you know like that that was and i would go through hell and high water like you know just to like go see them and and that's that's what you want from your fan base you want", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 707.912, "endSec": 708.0120000000001, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 708.0120000000001, "endSec": 717.2620000000001, "text": "your fan base to like you know there's no better feeling than you're in a bumblefuck virginia and someone's like yo i drove two hours to see you like", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 717.2620000000001, "endSec": 718.112, "text": "Yeah. Right.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 718.112, "endSec": 720.112, "text": "whoa that's incredible that's that's", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 720.112, "endSec": 721.062, "text": "That makes it all worth it.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 721.062, "endSec": 722.362, "text": "you know never mind the money that's", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 722.362, "endSec": 722.562, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 722.562, "endSec": 722.962, "text": "that you", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 722.962, "endSec": 723.112, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 723.112, "endSec": 735.6759999999999, "text": "made a commitment to come and see me and there are fans like that and and that's how you know you get to be where you know good examples like where chapel roan is right now like that girl tore her ass off that's all for like three years you", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 735.6759999999999, "endSec": 735.876, "text": "Yes.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 735.876, "endSec": 743.376, "text": "know and it's and it's paying off there was a slow build and you just have to have the the patience and the wherewithal to to stand by and do that", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 743.626, "endSec": 763.988, "text": "Yeah. Right. Right. that's it's a good point but i i hear you it's not for everybody and everybody's got their own path and it's different for bands and solo artists and all that stuff so i hear you okay so you end up uh so now you that's really cool too that you had management that was so flexible and supportive to be able to help you through that transition in your career yeah", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 763.988, "endSec": 771.038, "text": "yeah they were so my my old man i'm not with them anymore this was years ago my old managers were brandon goodman and sean shahan and", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 772.564, "endSec": 780.8639999999999, "text": "they i mean they were incredible they also you know not to name drop too much but like they also managed billy ios and FINNEAS and Ashe and a couple other people that like we", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 780.8639999999999, "endSec": 781.2139999999999, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 781.2139999999999, "endSec": 795.2139999999999, "text": "all kind of really did come up together like when they were managing me they did not have those acts and i was with them when they got them and and that's how i was able to work on some of those projects not billy um done some with some FINNEAS and Ashe and whatever but um you know they", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 796.916, "endSec": 808.966, "text": "saw what i was doing they're like hey we really believe in you we want to help you build and and do the thing and they did and i you know super thankful for those guys um they managed me for like seven years uh", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 808.966, "endSec": 809.416, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 809.416, "endSec": 823.8499999999999, "text": "it was incredible and uh yeah you know very very lucky i think you know i don't think great management is i don't think having a manager is the most important thing But having bad management can really ruin your career.", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 824.05, "endSec": 836.15, "text": "I've got some big news everybody. My vinyl record is out. We didn't make a ton of these. These guys are going to sell out and I'd love for you to get your hands on one of them because they're so dope. They're so dope.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 836.15, "endSec": 855.23, "text": "And it comes with a whole bunch of like liner notes and pictures and special stuff. The things that really went into making this record and I want you to get your hands on it. So go to scoobertdoobert.pizza. Or check out my Instagram for a link or click the link in the show notes or the bio or wherever you're watching this to pick up your copy.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 855.23, "endSec": 869.03, "text": "You know, they're going to sell out. We really did not make very many of these and I want you to have it. It's like a collector's item. So thank you. Thank you for supporting my music and I can't wait for you to hear it actually on physical vinyl. Enjoy the rest of the episode.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 869.652, "endSec": 874.152, "text": "And if you have a great manager, that can really help your career take off in big ways.", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 874.302, "endSec": 874.652, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 874.652, "endSec": 883.2520000000001, "text": "You know, it's one of those things where it's like, I currently don't have a manager by choice. I've been fine doing it myself. My publishers are amazing. And", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 884.5, "endSec": 892.65, "text": "i i'm at the point now where it's like i'd rather have no management the bad management because i was so lucky where i had such incredible management i learned so much from them that", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 892.65, "endSec": 893.1, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 893.1, "endSec": 904.45, "text": "i was like okay i can do this myself like i'm pretty easy like that and and and you know i've heard so many horror stories of people having really bad managers and just like really tanking their careers you", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 904.45, "endSec": 904.85, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 904.85, "endSec": 905.65, "text": "know um", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 905.65, "endSec": 906.05, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 907.124, "endSec": 907.224, "text": "but", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 907.224, "endSec": 907.5740000000001, "text": "No,", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 907.5740000000001, "endSec": 907.674, "text": "yeah,", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 907.674, "endSec": 919.274, "text": "I mean, there's a ton of risk. There's all of these little choices that artists or songwriter can make and then can really impact or cut off that stream in the same way that we were talking about the positive stream of like the band", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 919.274, "endSec": 919.3240000000001, "text": "sure.", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 919.3240000000001, "endSec": 933.474, "text": "that drove two hours to come see you and that fills you back up. There are plenty of these other things that can damper you back down and kill your enthusiasm, kill that momentum. So I totally hear that. But I also think, so I'm curious, I'd love to hear more about your relationship with your publishers because I think that having...", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 933.474, "endSec": 942.0846654999999, "text": "i think that having having a team in some way shape or form is really really important at least for me to Get up and keep doing it in", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 942.0846654999999, "endSec": 942.3346654999999, "text": "Yeah,", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 942.3346654999999, "endSec": 942.6846654999999, "text": "the professional.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 942.6846654999999, "endSec": 944.4346654999999, "text": "I have an incredible lawyer. He's been my lawyer", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 944.4346654999999, "endSec": 944.5346655, "text": "Yeah,", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 944.5346655, "endSec": 944.8846655, "text": "for the past 10", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 944.8846655, "endSec": 945.0346655, "text": "cool", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 945.0346655, "endSec": 965.5696395932642, "text": "years. And the one thing he always tells me is that your job is to be creative and to make music and everything else should just be on autopilot for you. Not everything else, but most things should be. And I've always taken that to heart. And, you know, my publishers, I'm with Pulse currently. I'm in my second publishing deal. I was with Primer with BMG before and now with Pulse.", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 965.5696395932642, "endSec": 971.1186654999999, "text": "And You know, I signed with them around three years ago, and Pulse is amazing for me.", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 971.3686654999999, "endSec": 971.7186654999999, "text": "Yeah,", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 971.7186654999999, "endSec": 971.9186655, "text": "Not", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 971.9186655, "endSec": 972.1686655, "text": "yeah.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 972.1686655, "endSec": 976.4186655, "text": "every publisher is the right publisher for every songwriter, producer, or artist.", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 976.4186655, "endSec": 1002.6326654999999, "text": "it's just like when you're dating someone you know and this goes with managers too but when you're dating someone it's like just because you didn't work out well with this one human doesn't mean someone else won't work out well another you know you have to right you have to work well together and when i was talking to publishers and i and i and when i signed i had like a bigger song kind of popping off so i was talking to almost every major publisher and um i kind of went in with like", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 1003.4786654999999, "endSec": 1014.1466654999999, "text": "you know, big gun energy in the sense that I was like, this is what I do. Here's what I'm looking for in a publisher. This is what I'd like you guys to do for me.", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 1014.2966654999999, "endSec": 1014.5466654999999, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1014.5466654999999, "endSec": 1026.4966654999998, "text": "And I think when you go in with that energy versus being like, well, I don't really know what I want in a publisher. And, you know, if you don't know what you want in a publisher, you might not be ready for a publisher yet.", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 1026.4966654999998, "endSec": 1027.3966655, "text": "Okay. Yes.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1027.3966655, "endSec": 1038.7346655, "text": "You know, you might still be figuring out like what you do well in a room or how you work best. I know. how I work best currently I know how many sessions a week I want to do I", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 1038.7346655, "endSec": 1039.1846655, "text": "Mm-hmm.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1039.1846655, "endSec": 1057.6146655, "text": "know what I want for my publisher and I was just up front with everyone and some people were like yeah that's not what we do and I was like cool like sounds great and you know and a couple of them were like we do that really well and Pulse was one of those people and you know we worked together for a little while and uh it's been a really great relationship that i've had with", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 1057.6146655, "endSec": 1058.0646655, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1058.0646655, "endSec": 1058.9646655, "text": "him for the past couple years yeah", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 1058.9646655, "endSec": 1065.4146655, "text": "What is your favorite way to work in a room? Like what is your favorite role to kind of like take on in a songwriting session?", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1066.0146654999999, "endSec": 1068.2646654999999, "text": "my my perfect my my perfect role is", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 1068.2646654999999, "endSec": 1068.5646655, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1068.5646655, "endSec": 1084.4266655, "text": "uh i'm a producer but i always say i'm a songwriter first because i was a songwriter first um for those also like a top liner is another word for that um and uh for my first couple years i like i was really like half top liner half producer now", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 1084.4266655, "endSec": 1084.8766655, "text": "Cool.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1084.8766655, "endSec": 1110.6466655, "text": "I'm like at least when I'm in sessions I'm producing like 95% of the time but that's just mostly because like I love my studio I have a family I like being able to control when the session can start and end and stuff but my perfect session is like me songwriter artist and maybe sometimes another producer but it's usually those three and how I like to work is I'm really not super focused on the production um", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 1110.6466655, "endSec": 1111.1466655, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1111.1466655, "endSec": 1115.5466655, "text": "i'm more focused on the song i want to get the song right every", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 1115.5466655, "endSec": 1116.1466655, "text": "Mm-hmm.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1116.1466655, "endSec": 1125.7466654999998, "text": "single time and i'm the kind of person where i call it poking the bear well i will really try and like push everyone to be like ah i want to make this better what's", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 1125.7466654999998, "endSec": 1126.1966654999999, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1126.1966654999999, "endSec": 1126.8466655, "text": "this ah", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 1126.8466655, "endSec": 1127.2966655, "text": "Okay.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1127.2966655, "endSec": 1142.4806655, "text": "the lyric this this lyric is not connecting to like the thesis of our song you know how that just feels random you know i'm that guy that like You know, I'm usually one of the older people in the sessions. I'm 35 now. I'm working with 18, 19, 20, you know,", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 1142.4806655, "endSec": 1142.7306655, "text": "Uh", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1142.7306655, "endSec": 1142.8806654999998, "text": "really", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 1142.8806654999998, "endSec": 1143.2806655, "text": "-huh. Yeah,", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1143.2806655, "endSec": 1143.3806654999998, "text": "young", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 1143.3806654999998, "endSec": 1143.5806655, "text": "yeah, yeah.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1143.5806655, "endSec": 1143.8306655, "text": "kids.", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 1143.8306655, "endSec": 1144.2806655, "text": "Uh-huh.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1144.2806655, "endSec": 1165.4586655, "text": "And, you know, I use that experience to my advantage where it's like I'm trying to get the best out of you and challenge you and push you. um and yeah once i feel like we have that song down my goal is to get an amazing vocal at the end of the day and i'll worry about production later whether i'll produce it out whether i think like you know what i think so and so would be dope to finish this production i don't", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 1165.4586655, "endSec": 1165.5586655, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1165.5586655, "endSec": 1186.1926655, "text": "care if my goal is to always make sure the song is going to be the best version of what it can be um and that's for like when i'm working directly with others when i'm doing sessions for like pop pitch stuff and like k-pop stuff it's a little bit different i'm a little bit more focused on production those days because you know especially for k-pop it is so much more about the production the", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 1186.1926655, "endSec": 1186.6426655, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1186.6426655, "endSec": 1206.5526654999999, "text": "lyrics almost take a back you know because they're going to change it so those days i'm like so much more focused on like okay the melody and the production and i'll dive in deeper on those but my how i like to work is i like to go back and forth between top line and production like that's what i like to do and if i'm in a session where i'm not able to do that like i'm a horrible liar i'm not happy and", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 1206.5526654999999, "endSec": 1207.5526654999999, "text": "Yeah, yeah, yeah.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1207.5526654999999, "endSec": 1214.3026654999999, "text": "you know i'm always trying to keep the vibes up but then it's like i just tell my teams like yeah that person's awesome but like you know i i just like i don't work well with them and", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 1214.3026654999999, "endSec": 1215.0026655, "text": "Yeah, right.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1215.0026655, "endSec": 1216.3526655, "text": "that's fine i'm", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 1216.3526655, "endSec": 1216.7526655, "text": "Totally.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1216.7526655, "endSec": 1230.4446655, "text": "over i'm over doing sessions i don't want to do anymore i used to be a really big people pleaser like every songwriter is and sometimes sometimes you have to be but it's like i've been doing this long enough where it's like no i i don't have time for to do That kind of thing anymore,", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 1230.5446655, "endSec": 1230.5946655, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1230.5946655, "endSec": 1231.5446655, "text": "you know, right", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 1231.5446655, "endSec": 1243.9946654999999, "text": "Yeah. Well, in that confidence, like you're saying, is the same kind of confidence you were bringing to that publishing negotiation where you're having that quiet confidence of this is the route that I want to go. Same thing like you were talking about significant other or whatever.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1243.9946654999999, "endSec": 1260.4346655, "text": "It's like understanding what you're looking for and not wasting the time in between so that you can keep down the path that you want to be on rather than exploring other paths like you would have earlier in your career. Now it's like, this is my road. This is what I'm comfortable with it. that this is where i'm bringing the most of myself and", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1260.4346655, "endSec": 1260.8846655, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 1260.8846655, "endSec": 1262.4846655, "text": "we're gonna get the best product at the end of it yeah", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1262.4846655, "endSec": 1279.2346655, "text": "I mean, I hear so many complaints from songwriters when I'm doing sessions and stuff, right? Where they're like, man, my publisher sucks. And I'm like, well, why? And they'll tell me and they're like, yeah, I'm just like in a bunch of sessions that I don't really want to be doing. And my first question is always, well, have you told them that? And they're like, no.", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 1279.8946655, "endSec": 1280.0446655, "text": "Mm", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1280.0446655, "endSec": 1280.2446654999999, "text": "I'm", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 1280.2446654999999, "endSec": 1280.3946655, "text": "-hmm.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1280.3946655, "endSec": 1301.2946655, "text": "like, well, you got to have a conversation with them. You know, it's, I think sometimes songwriters, because again, we're creative and we just want to, we're so thankful to be doing this amazing thing that's music. And we're just so like, you know, complacent in just doing it and just being happy versus telling, you know, understanding that.", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 1301.2946655, "endSec": 1314.1026655, "text": "your publisher or your managers is a partnership you don't work for them they don't work for you you don't work for them it's a partnership and you have and partnerships only work if y'all are both super honest with one another and", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 1314.1026655, "endSec": 1314.6026655, "text": "Yes.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1314.6026655, "endSec": 1323.1246655, "text": "uh you and you know you everyone wants everyone to be the best version they can because then everyone's going to make more money so it's", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 1323.1246655, "endSec": 1323.2246655, "text": "Mm", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1323.2246655, "endSec": 1332.5246654999999, "text": "in everyone's best interest so you know that's that's my one thing too it's like reminding songwriters that we love to complain and we love to you know write songs about how annoyed we are things", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 1332.5246654999999, "endSec": 1332.6746655, "text": "-hmm.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1332.6746655, "endSec": 1346.7646654999999, "text": "but sometimes we have to step up and sometimes it's having your manager do that with your publisher let them be the bad guy but you it has to be known that like hey like you know I'm in sessions five days a week with people I never know That's killing me like", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 1346.7646654999999, "endSec": 1347.2146655, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1347.2146655, "endSec": 1351.4146655, "text": "I can do that like me personally I can only work with new people like once or twice a week.", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 1351.5146654999999, "endSec": 1351.7646654999999, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1351.7646654999999, "endSec": 1353.3646655, "text": "I find it really draining to", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 1353.3646655, "endSec": 1353.9146655, "text": "It is.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1353.9146655, "endSec": 1354.2146655, "text": "do that", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 1354.2146655, "endSec": 1359.3646655, "text": "It is. Well, especially because songwriting is a very intimate thing.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1359.6646655, "endSec": 1360.1146655, "text": "Right", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 1360.3646655, "endSec": 1370.4646655, "text": "You are going to put out so many ideas that will get rejected, and that's just part of it. You're going to go down, like we're talking about, go down a path and then be like, oh, nope, we're actually going this way.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1370.4646655, "endSec": 1370.5146654999999, "text": "Yep", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 1370.5146654999999, "endSec": 1372.7986655, "text": "The central thesis of the song will... will change halfway half", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1372.7986655, "endSec": 1373.2486655, "text": "Yeah", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 1373.2486655, "endSec": 1382.6006655, "text": "of the room will suddenly want to change genres or like Throw a total wrench into the path that you saw going in your head now We're actually going over in this direction.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1382.6006655, "endSec": 1382.7006655, "text": "right", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 1382.7006655, "endSec": 1390.0506655, "text": "So the flexibility is key But it's so much easier to be flexible when you know other people's tendencies because then you can anticipate them a little bit Yeah, right", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1390.0506655, "endSec": 1395.1006655, "text": "and like when you work with people who you work with a ton like you have that unspoken language with", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 1395.1006655, "endSec": 1395.6006655, "text": "totally", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1395.6006655, "endSec": 1404.9306655, "text": "one another where you can just like kind of look at each other and be like no this isn't it and it's so much easier to like tell people in a room Guys, this isn't working. Let's start fresh. That", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 1404.9306655, "endSec": 1405.2306655, "text": "It", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1405.2306655, "endSec": 1405.3306655, "text": "is", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 1405.3306655, "endSec": 1405.5306655, "text": "is.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1405.5306655, "endSec": 1405.9306655, "text": "with,", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 1405.9306655, "endSec": 1406.1306654999998, "text": "Totally.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1406.1306654999998, "endSec": 1414.5306655, "text": "you know, other people who you just met that day. But getting over that fear is key. I think those", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 1414.5306655, "endSec": 1414.9306655, "text": "Yep.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1414.9306655, "endSec": 1427.4806655, "text": "second ideas are usually so much better than the first ones. And especially with new people, like not always with people you work with a ton, but with new people where that first idea is really you feeling each other out and seeing how you write.", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 1427.6306654999998, "endSec": 1428.5806655, "text": "Right. Yeah.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1428.7586655, "endSec": 1434.8086655, "text": "Yeah. And then once you understand that, you can start a second idea and you're like, okay, I know how this room is going to vibe now and", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 1434.8086655, "endSec": 1434.9086655, "text": "Cool.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1434.9086655, "endSec": 1435.3586655, "text": "I know how", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 1435.3586655, "endSec": 1435.6586655, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1435.6586655, "endSec": 1443.5086655, "text": "I have to be in this room and then that's what I always encourage people to do too. It's like, don't be afraid to throw that idea away. It's there. It's not going anywhere.", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 1443.5086655, "endSec": 1445.1586655, "text": "Yeah. That's really good advice.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1445.1586655, "endSec": 1445.3586655, "text": "Yeah,", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 1445.3586655, "endSec": 1446.0586655, "text": "That's really good advice.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1446.0586655, "endSec": 1446.2586655, "text": "yeah,", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 1446.2586655, "endSec": 1446.4086655, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1446.4086655, "endSec": 1446.7086654999998, "text": "yeah.", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 1446.7086654999998, "endSec": 1459.6706655, "text": "And then that also kind of like depressurizes the situation. I've been in this before where everybody's trying to bring their best selves, especially if you're younger and you're trying to get into a more established. established area like I'm gonna write like the best melody or whatever and", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1459.6706655, "endSec": 1460.1206655, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 1460.1206655, "endSec": 1464.3206655, "text": "then you can kind of exhale and start over and then I think you can bring more of yourself yeah", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1464.3206655, "endSec": 1470.2706655, "text": "Yeah. The best advice I got years ago, and I don't remember who gave it to me, but now I give it as my own advice is", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 1470.2706655, "endSec": 1470.5206655, "text": "sounds", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1470.5206655, "endSec": 1471.3706655, "text": "you're only", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 1471.3706655, "endSec": 1471.5206655, "text": "good", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1471.5206655, "endSec": 1471.6206655, "text": "going", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 1471.6206655, "endSec": 1471.6706655, "text": "cool", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1471.6706655, "endSec": 1473.1706655, "text": "to write the song you're going to write that day.", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 1473.9206655, "endSec": 1474.1706655, "text": "yeah", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1474.1706655, "endSec": 1482.8706655, "text": "That's it. That's all you can do. Like you're going to write a song and that's the song that's going to be that day. And the advice means it's that like you can't.", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 1482.8706655, "endSec": 1496.9866655, "text": "put too much pressure on it to be like this is going to be the best song i'm ever going to write in my life and you just see where it goes follow it don't be afraid to like take a left turn or do something that's like a little bit scary but just like write that song that", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 1496.9866655, "endSec": 1497.3866655, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1497.3866655, "endSec": 1510.3366655, "text": "that the song is kind of pulling you towards like the thing i hate most in sessions is we're doing that like our song is taking us in this like direction that isn't super conventional and someone's like ah but like", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 1510.8706655, "endSec": 1535.3206655, "text": "and I think it's out of fear it's like I don't know like this feels this feels weird to me like we should bring it in this direction and it's like right but the song's going in this direction so it's like let's follow that or just stop writing this because the second you start trying to bring it in multiple different directions it's like it's going to lose its identity and then it's not going to be something cool and original and I think that's when that's what's been great about", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 1536.0226655, "endSec": 1550.1226655, "text": "popular music the last couple years is that you like you look at the top 10 the last couple years and you're like damn these songs are like all over the place you know it's not like how it was like katie perry where like dr luke and max martin were producing every top 10 hit and everything sounded the same now", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 1550.1226655, "endSec": 1550.4726655, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1550.4726655, "endSec": 1560.4226654999998, "text": "she'd get like a benson boone and a tommy richman and a dasha and you know it's just like it's all over the place i know i think it's super cool music is in a really cool spot right now", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 1561.4306655, "endSec": 1570.1306654999998, "text": "Totally. And I think you were mentioning Billie Eilish and FINNEAS have done a very good job mixing it up from record to record.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1570.4806654999998, "endSec": 1570.9306655, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 1571.4806654999998, "endSec": 1577.5946655, "text": "And I think that's helped give other people down the food chain a little bit more. I", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1577.5946655, "endSec": 1577.7446654999999, "text": "I", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 1577.7446654999999, "endSec": 1578.0946655, "text": "don't know. Allowance.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1578.0946655, "endSec": 1582.9446655000002, "text": "think, yeah, I think they were one of those artists that really kind of allowed people to be like,", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 1582.9446655000002, "endSec": 1582.9946654999999, "text": "Agree.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1582.9946654999999, "endSec": 1583.6946655000002, "text": "oh, like, we", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 1583.6946655000002, "endSec": 1583.9946654999999, "text": "Agree.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1583.9946654999999, "endSec": 1586.0446655, "text": "can do different things.", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 1586.0446655, "endSec": 1586.1946655000002, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1586.1946655000002, "endSec": 1589.4446655000002, "text": "And like, they were doing different things because they were kids, and", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 1589.4446655000002, "endSec": 1589.5946655, "text": "Yeah,", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1589.5946655, "endSec": 1594.9946654999999, "text": "they didn't know any better. And, you know, they were just like making music that they thought was cool.", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 1595.2946655, "endSec": 1595.3446655, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1595.3446655, "endSec": 1604.8726655, "text": "And I think that's what, like, that's something I honestly learned from Finn, is that for years I was like chasing trends, and then I started working with him on a couple things. things mind", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 1604.8726655, "endSec": 1605.4226655, "text": "Mm-hmm.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1605.4226655, "endSec": 1606.7726655000001, "text": "you this kid was 18 and", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 1606.7726655000001, "endSec": 1607.2226655, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1607.2226655, "endSec": 1614.1226655, "text": "i was i think i was 25 when we were working together when we first started working together and he just be like i don't know like it's cool", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 1614.9026654999998, "endSec": 1615.0026655, "text": "Mm", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1615.0026655, "endSec": 1615.1526654999998, "text": "like", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 1615.1526654999998, "endSec": 1615.3026654999999, "text": "-hmm.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1615.3026654999999, "endSec": 1617.0526654999999, "text": "damn it like you're right like", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 1617.0526654999999, "endSec": 1617.2526655, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1617.2526655, "endSec": 1640.0026655, "text": "don't worry about like like you know for for so long i was always like being like well i gotta use like this kind of thing and whatever and it's just like nah because and and you know i very quickly learned that a year after i started i switched up how i work it's like oh now i'm having success because i'm doing things that i think are fun and cool versus like i don't know following trends unless you're like unless you didn't sink music is the dumbest thing you can do in my opinion", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 1640.5026655, "endSec": 1644.0486655, "text": "Yeah, that's it. very very reasoned", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1644.0486655, "endSec": 1644.0986655, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 1644.0986655, "endSec": 1646.2986655, "text": "and also like the trends move quickly so", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1646.2986655, "endSec": 1646.8986654999999, "text": "Oh, yeah.", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 1646.8986654999999, "endSec": 1653.4486655, "text": "when you're chasing them yeah unless it's sync where it's like hey i need you to turn this track around in 48 hours and it needs to sound like this top 40 like okay yeah", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1653.4486655, "endSec": 1657.0746654999998, "text": "Yeah. That's a good point. Yeah, you know, I feel", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 1657.0746654999998, "endSec": 1671.8746655, "text": "uh-huh um what what are some of the things that have been like exciting you more specifically about just like sounds and and recordings and anything that you've identified maybe not as a trend but just like things that have been cool out there in pop music recently", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1673.6246655, "endSec": 1683.2846654999998, "text": "like we're kind of pushing up against how clean and You know, almost overproduced things were for a while.", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 1683.2846654999998, "endSec": 1683.4346655, "text": "Yes.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1683.4346655, "endSec": 1694.5926654999998, "text": "I feel like we're going back to more raw recordings, things that aren't perfectly mixed, darker mixes, going back to... good engineering you know", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 1694.5926654999998, "endSec": 1695.0426654999999, "text": "Hmm.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1695.0426654999999, "endSec": 1703.6926654999997, "text": "i think i i don't think it's over but i think the time of like i can make an amazing song on my laptop it's kind of at least not in right now you", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 1703.6926654999997, "endSec": 1703.9426654999997, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1703.9426654999997, "endSec": 1704.2426655, "text": "listen", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 1704.2426655, "endSec": 1704.3926655, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1704.3926655, "endSec": 1704.8926655, "text": "yeah you", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 1704.8926655, "endSec": 1705.2426655, "text": "I hear", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1705.2426655, "endSec": 1705.4926655, "text": "listen to", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 1705.4926655, "endSec": 1705.8426654999998, "text": "what you're saying.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1705.9926655, "endSec": 1728.6706654999998, "text": "you listen to all these records and at least what i'm hearing that's taken off and what i personally vibe with i'm listening i'm like oh man this is all engineered really well and it's all recorded really well And that's kind of been my vibe. I've been slowly investing more into more outboard gear, better microphones and preamps and all that other fun stuff.", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 1728.6706654999998, "endSec": 1729.0206655, "text": "Mm-hmm.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1729.0206655, "endSec": 1740.0206655, "text": "Because my whole philosophy now and how I make records is I want to get things sounding as incredible as they can. before they before it hits the DAW and", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 1740.0206655, "endSec": 1740.8206655, "text": "mm-hmm mm", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1740.8206655, "endSec": 1766.4706655, "text": "so now when I'm recording things it's like especially my vocal chain now right where it's like years ago stacked now it's like I have an EQ a multi-band compressor maybe specter to like give it some saturation here and there but like that's it you know I I'm going in with a lot of compression just for my outboard gear and and stuff and the same thing with my synths and my piano my guitars and", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 1767.3186655, "endSec": 1775.0686655, "text": "everything i'm trying to record my guitar amps more often when i can Yeah, usually i'm using my kemper in a session because i don't want to tell people in the session like shut up i gotta record", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 1775.0686655, "endSec": 1775.2186655, "text": "right.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1775.2186655, "endSec": 1794.8186655, "text": "this guitar part you know what i mean um but the kemper's amazing uh you know and uh that's that's i feel like where music is kind of seems to be going and at least what gets me happy i was i was in a band i love recording real things real drums and all that fun stuff and uh you know i'm also not very good at making like", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 1795.6386655000001, "endSec": 1799.8886655000001, "text": "you know producing at like super overproduced things like this is what fits my vibe better", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 1799.9886655, "endSec": 1800.4386654999998, "text": "Yeah,", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1800.4386654999998, "endSec": 1800.5886655, "text": "so", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 1800.5886655, "endSec": 1818.6886654999998, "text": "yeah. I think that naturally is happening for a variety of influences and forces at work. And my pet theory is that AI music is going to force real people music to make music that doesn't sound like AI music.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1819.4466655, "endSec": 1823.3966655, "text": "yeah i mean ai music i i've been doing a lot of ai stuff in", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 1823.3966655, "endSec": 1823.6466655, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1823.6466655, "endSec": 1839.0466655, "text": "the sense of like i'm trying to learn a lot about it i'm obsessed with chat gbt um but like the ai music and this is from my very basic understanding of ai is that it's not it seems to it's not going to be able to create anything original", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 1839.5426655, "endSec": 1860.3926655, "text": "all it can do is like listen to what's been done and kind of make a new version of that and it does that really well to be honest like you listen to some of these like 80s style rock songs or like EDM songs and you're like I don't know like it's nothing that like I'm like obsessed with but if I just heard this walking by in a supermarket I would think it was a human made it and I wouldn't think twice about it", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 1860.3926655, "endSec": 1883.0293278458737, "text": "Sorry to interrupt this very important broadcast, but it's time for one more advertisement for myself for this podcast. What I'm asking... This is like the most important thing for this podcast to grow. So if you want to do this, you go into the podcast screen, right? You click on the dot, dot, dot on Spotify. Under there, it says rate show and you go and you click it. Five stars.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1883.0293278458737, "endSec": 1900.393331, "text": "If you could do that for me, that's the best way for the algorithms and all this stuff to share it out with the world. I know that it's a lot to ask, but if you could please, please, please, just please just hit those three dots and then a five star would really help us out and helps us, you know, get the word out and spread the love of music. So thank you. If you're listening on YouTube, you know what to do.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1900.393331, "endSec": 1904.693331, "text": "Like, subscribe, all that good stuff. Thank you so much. And here's the rest of the episode.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1905.297331, "endSec": 1909.547331, "text": "I'm always a firm believer the more technology pushes up there's always a correction you", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 1909.547331, "endSec": 1910.097331, "text": "I agree.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1910.097331, "endSec": 1910.1973309999998, "text": "know", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 1910.1973309999998, "endSec": 1910.7473309999998, "text": "I agree.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1910.7473309999998, "endSec": 1916.7473309999998, "text": "you saw that from the 80s to the 90s I think we're seeing it again now where yeah that correction", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 1917.097331, "endSec": 1922.547331, "text": "Yeah, totally. And I think I fundamentally agree with what you're saying in terms of it is...", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1923.473331, "endSec": 1928.923331, "text": "expected and it does the expected genres the well-defined genres very well they're", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1928.923331, "endSec": 1929.423331, "text": "Right.", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 1929.423331, "endSec": 1949.723331, "text": "like clear sets of parameters but i think in that there will be a um a push to make things that are harder to define as we're seeing um lyrics that are more surprising as we're seeing i think that just like the element of surprise will get even stronger in music and hopefully it'll grow into a little bit more long form because there was a moment there where songs you", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1949.4573309999998, "endSec": 1961.0073309999998, "text": "were defined by their like 10 second syncability to like a tiktok video i think that still exists like please please me um or please please please sabrina carpenter um", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1961.0073309999998, "endSec": 1961.9073309999999, "text": "That song's so good though.", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 1961.9073309999999, "endSec": 1964.0073309999998, "text": "it's really good though it is really good though yeah", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1964.0073309999998, "endSec": 1964.057331, "text": "So", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 1964.057331, "endSec": 1964.557331, "text": "i", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1964.557331, "endSec": 1965.357331, "text": "obsessed with that song.", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 1965.357331, "endSec": 1975.357331, "text": "yeah it's a really good song i agree um but that one that one too though is like the whole song is actually really good and there are multiple points that i've seen like reference in videos and stuff um", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1976.2093309999998, "endSec": 1983.059331, "text": "So hopefully like long form things also come back in vogue because I think that's another way to push against the machine so", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1983.059331, "endSec": 1983.2093309999998, "text": "yeah", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 1983.2093309999998, "endSec": 1985.509331, "text": "to speak like write a six minute song again you know", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1985.509331, "endSec": 1990.009331, "text": "I mean I think people are also so much more wanting albums now too because", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 1990.009331, "endSec": 1990.6093309999999, "text": "Yeah, exactly", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1990.6093309999999, "endSec": 1990.959331, "text": "for so long", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 1990.959331, "endSec": 1991.009331, "text": "exactly", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1991.009331, "endSec": 1992.309331, "text": "everyone's like singles singles singles and", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 1992.309331, "endSec": 1992.4093309999998, "text": "Do", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1992.4093309999998, "endSec": 1992.759331, "text": "I'm like you I", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 1992.759331, "endSec": 1994.6093309999999, "text": "think so do you think so for sure I think", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1994.6093309999999, "endSec": 2002.809331, "text": "think so I I've been seeing people like pushing albums especially with like vinyls getting so popular again I think fans love", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 2003.665331, "endSec": 2008.5153309999998, "text": "like i don't know i feel like it's been the last like two years like whenever a big album comes out like everyone listens it's like this like", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 2008.5153309999998, "endSec": 2008.665331, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 2008.665331, "endSec": 2030.915331, "text": "huge event because of spotify this is one of the benefits of spotify that like everyone listens to this album and we're all you know in the cultural zeitgeist talking about it you know what did you think oh i love this song i didn't like that you know it's i think that like things like that are incredible and that you know it's like crazy to see how artists are now uh i mean again bringing up billy again didn't even release a single just", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 2030.865331, "endSec": 2031.865331, "text": "just put the album out and", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 2031.865331, "endSec": 2032.365331, "text": "Mm hmm.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 2032.365331, "endSec": 2033.2153309999999, "text": "was", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 2033.2153309999999, "endSec": 2033.415331, "text": "Yes.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 2033.415331, "endSec": 2035.2653309999998, "text": "like oh damn like awesome", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 2035.2653309999998, "endSec": 2035.665331, "text": "Totally.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 2035.665331, "endSec": 2036.0153309999998, "text": "i wish", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 2036.0153309999998, "endSec": 2036.4653309999999, "text": "Totally.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 2036.4653309999999, "endSec": 2037.5653309999998, "text": "that happened more often", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 2037.5653309999998, "endSec": 2037.7653309999998, "text": "I agree.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 2037.7653309999998, "endSec": 2038.3153309999998, "text": "yes", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 2038.3153309999998, "endSec": 2041.8153309999998, "text": "I also I wish that I was allowed to do that. You're I'm not allowed", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 2041.8153309999998, "endSec": 2041.865331, "text": "yeah", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 2041.865331, "endSec": 2042.2153309999999, "text": "to do that.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 2042.2153309999999, "endSec": 2047.665331, "text": "i like i don't think any new artist should be just releasing an album i i've i've thought that for like years", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 2047.665331, "endSec": 2048.465331, "text": "I think it's cool.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 2048.465331, "endSec": 2057.215331, "text": "yeah i think it's cool when you can you know there was a time like when i was in a band you know 15 years ago where it's like you would create an album or an ep because that was the merch that you would sell when", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 2057.215331, "endSec": 2057.565331, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 2057.565331, "endSec": 2058.715331, "text": "you were on tour um", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 2058.715331, "endSec": 2059.065331, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 2060.3373309999997, "endSec": 2067.537331, "text": "versus uh you know now it's like i tell artists all the time where it's like people like yeah we want to make an album and i'm like i don't think you're ready yet like", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 2067.537331, "endSec": 2068.0873309999997, "text": "uh-huh yeah", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 2068.0873309999997, "endSec": 2068.8373309999997, "text": "that album", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 2068.8373309999997, "endSec": 2069.187331, "text": "i", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 2069.187331, "endSec": 2069.387331, "text": "you", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 2069.387331, "endSec": 2069.637331, "text": "i", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 2069.637331, "endSec": 2070.237331, "text": "know yeah", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 2070.237331, "endSec": 2071.687331, "text": "think i disagree though uh i", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 2071.687331, "endSec": 2071.737331, "text": "yeah", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 2071.737331, "endSec": 2088.437331, "text": "think that the act of making the album sculpts the sculptor as much as vice versa you know what i mean i think that like creating a long form thing even if you never release it even if it sucks is like you're gonna be a different person you're gonna be a different artist by the end of like slaving after you know", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 2088.401331, "endSec": 2102.4513309999998, "text": "you know 12 tracks than um one sure well i mean i think the difference is too right where it's like you're an artist you're like i'm assuming you're like doing it mostly yourself as in like producing and editing right and it's like most artists are not all encompassing they have to work", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 2102.4513309999998, "endSec": 2108.0513309999997, "text": "that's with people that's a good point yeah like me right and i think it's when i say they're not ready it's like", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 2108.0513309999997, "endSec": 2112.101331, "text": "that's an album is a big investment if you're working with other people and true it's a big", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 2112.101331, "endSec": 2118.781331, "text": "i think it's like to me it's like i hey listen you want to pay me fifty thousand dollars to do an album for you all right i'll take your money all", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 2118.781331, "endSec": 2139.031331, "text": "yes day but yes i also think like that money might be better invested in like touring and building up a fan base so you know that's kind of where i'm coming from right if i if artists like you album makes sense because like your cost to do it is so little but you know like that's what i'm saying like making an album when it's expensive like and and i'm the kind of producer too where it's like i'll bend my", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 2139.6653309999997, "endSec": 2143.465331, "text": "um production fee and then try to work out deals where so i don't kill an artist financially", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 2143.465331, "endSec": 2152.865331, "text": "Yes. because Yes. i want them to be able to go out and tour and promote the album so that does well for both of us but still i can't like i'm not doing things for free you", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 2152.865331, "endSec": 2158.565331, "text": "Yeah. know like Yeah. all the time i can't do it i'll do a song for free you know and work on back end but not a whole album you know No, so", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 2158.565331, "endSec": 2172.3573309999997, "text": "no way. No, the time commitment is so massive. it's No, a lot I agree yeah yeah with that. And also, yeah, the amount of modalities that you're like. you're like kind of got your fingers in the pie that probably changes things like for me i grow every record because yeah i'm wearing so many different hats so", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 2172.3573309999997, "endSec": 2176.3573309999997, "text": "Right. i'm like growing in a much different ways and i can kind of like have a glomerative of", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 2176.3573309999997, "endSec": 2183.8573309999997, "text": "Yeah. x to just like add up into a more of like oh i understand what my sound is um but yeah that's a very good point in terms of size", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 2183.8573309999997, "endSec": 2187.957331, "text": "Yeah. I and have a buddy, scope of you your team yeah know, this artist named Unlike Pluto. It's kind of,", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 2187.957331, "endSec": 2192.313331, "text": "i do i yeah, know i see you yeah, guys yes Armand, he's like, I mean, we've known each other for years. I used to they used to do some stuff with him and", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 2192.313331, "endSec": 2196.863331, "text": "Cool, like he cool, cool. started switching to like he used to be mostly an EDM producer and", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 2196.863331, "endSec": 2217.8353309999998, "text": "Yeah. uh do features then he was like oh I can actually sing and Yeah. he was the kind of the artist that like you know kind of kind of where you're coming from like changed my mind where he'd be like yeah I'm gonna make an album I was like are you sure buddy and it's like but he was he was doing it all himself and I was like yeah man like do it and that kid puts out so much music and his fans love it and he has like his own kind of like like world", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 2217.8353309999998, "endSec": 2222.0853309999998, "text": "yes yes that he's created and he's and he makes yeah a good living off it i think it's amazing what he's doing", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 2222.0853309999998, "endSec": 2243.6853309999997, "text": "yeah totally and and that's that's true like both of these things can be true at the same time depending on what kind of artist you are depending what your your goals are what your sound is all like all that kind of stuff and also yeah what are you what do your fans want um that's and you know one of the weird things for independent artists or small label artists like myself where it's you kind of need as many shots at goal as possible and the goal is", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 2243.633331, "endSec": 2244.633331, "text": "was spotify plus um", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 2244.633331, "endSec": 2245.083331, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 2245.083331, "endSec": 2252.133331, "text": "in a lot of ways and so you need to like you can't just drop the whole album because you're only allowed to pitch one song when you're not", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 2253.2973309999998, "endSec": 2259.097331, "text": "you Well, know one right. Exactly. of the top five artists in the world oh Yeah, no. And it's tougher and tougher with Spotify. Spotify is being", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 2259.097331, "endSec": 2261.647331, "text": "yeah taken over more and more by the major labels and stuff.", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 2261.647331, "endSec": 2280.747331, "text": "totally no this is that's probably a good time let's let's uh let's talk a little bit about that i'd love to know more about your perspective i know that i mean you i say you have a you have a spotify um songwriter page profs not not many people have those that's really cool um but yeah i mean i i love a good honest perspective at what it looks like out there i mean obviously spotify has really helped me", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 2280.689331, "endSec": 2284.639331, "text": "me build my career but also you know i've Yeah. had to spend a lot you So, know yeah", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 2284.639331, "endSec": 2291.4893309999998, "text": "so I go, you know, Spotify, when I say Spotify, I'll, I'll, we can talk even replace it with all DSPs, but", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 2291.4893309999998, "endSec": 2294.0893309999997, "text": "sounds good Spotify zoom being the biggest out one. a little bit yeah Yeah. the ecosystem yeah", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 2294.0893309999997, "endSec": 2308.005331, "text": "The ecosystem of it. Right. So I, I always go back and forth with Spotify. Where when I was in a band Spotify was really good to me. We're unsigned this was in 2014 ish and Spotify was really invested in and", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 2308.005331, "endSec": 2316.655331, "text": "Yes. being the DSP that broke new artists Apple music wasn't doing that YouTube wasn't doing that Spotify was doing that and that's how they got", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 2317.005331, "endSec": 2335.0873309999997, "text": "Yep. To be the biggest player in the market in my opinion And when you're an independent artist and you own your masters again for listeners, there's the master side of of the song and then there's the publishing side publishing is more the songwriting master is like that specific recording of the song the simplest version of that and", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 2335.0873309999997, "endSec": 2360.237331, "text": "Very good. when you own your masters like you actually make good money on spotify you know it comes out to around four thousand dollars per million streams it fluctuates depending on whatever and how spotify pays out as they uh they pay out 70 of their revenue to royalty owners and that's both master owners and publishing owners and that's split even further i think now it's like seven to two in favor of the master gets seven and the publishers get", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 2360.209331, "endSec": 2371.309331, "text": "get two right so Yep. it's wholly Yep. imbalanced um and Yep. uh so yeah labels are making good money you know they're they're all making record profits", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 2372.241331, "endSec": 2398.241331, "text": "uh big one spotify just had a record-breaking year and the people who are really suffering are songwriters and like i said that seven to two split is split even further now because most songwriters especially we're talking about like major label like people who are making most of the money as songwriters um right you know they're splitting that with their publishers usually and then on top of that very few songs have only one songwriter on it", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 2398.4173309999996, "endSec": 2406.1673309999996, "text": "Mm hmm. So now you're splitting that between anywhere from two to three, four, five. Sometimes these crazy, you know, Beyonce songs have like 10,", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 2406.1673309999996, "endSec": 2412.517331, "text": "Yeah. 12 writers on it. Yeah. And I'm not criticizing that. How she does things is really cool and unique", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 2412.517331, "endSec": 2415.767331, "text": "Totally. and that's... Yeah, I had Alex Delicata on and Yeah, he was talking yeah.", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 2415.767331, "endSec": 2419.1673309999996, "text": "about one of his songs and it was yeah, it was it was like a", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 2420.1453309999997, "endSec": 2426.845331, "text": "reworked with the team there's a new bridge now new form like he was like it was cool they did change so much and they made it their own he's like", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 2426.845331, "endSec": 2426.945331, "text": "beyonce", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 2426.945331, "endSec": 2427.345331, "text": "they get their", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 2427.345331, "endSec": 2427.495331, "text": "is", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 2427.495331, "endSec": 2427.545331, "text": "credit", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 2427.545331, "endSec": 2427.795331, "text": "the is", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 2427.795331, "endSec": 2427.945331, "text": "yeah", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 2427.945331, "endSec": 2446.8953309999997, "text": "the greatest anr of all time that's what she does and that's what she does really well she's like that's sick what if we do you know that's what she's good at um so yeah so songwriters are really making like almost no money you know you see songwriters who have had like song like a billion streams and it's like yeah i made like you know thirty thousand dollars from that and you're like what like", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 2447.089331, "endSec": 2447.089331, "text": "Right.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 2447.089331, "endSec": 2451.289331, "text": "that's it um that's supposed to be like your retirement money like right when and", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 2451.289331, "endSec": 2474.765331, "text": "you have that level of a hit right and songwriters are so obsessed with getting radio cuts because radio still plays pays really well that's where you know you can have a big song on radio and you make a lot of money from that but spotify and this is the problem and you know i don't like to put all the blame on spotify because how their business model is set up i don't think It's wrong.", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 2474.765331, "endSec": 2490.065331, "text": "I think them paying out 70% to royalty owners and them keeping 30% seems fair to me. The problem is in the split in those royalty rates. In my opinion, it should be split 50-50 master and publishing.", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 2490.615331, "endSec": 2500.315331, "text": "Mm-hmm. That's never going to happen. Maybe one day, but the reason why we're not able to basically negotiate with Spotify.", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 2501.137331, "endSec": 2511.787331, "text": "And all this is because of this horrible law that started in the early 1900s based off music, like piano player sheets, and", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 2511.787331, "endSec": 2527.857331, "text": "Okay. Yeah. then evolved in the 80s under the Reagan administration, which is not to get too political, that guy has created so many problems. And essentially, songwriters are not able to directly negotiate. With,", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 2527.857331, "endSec": 2533.9889765696203, "text": "Yes. Yeah. the DSPs, we, there's a copyright royalty board, these three judges, and they set the rates.", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 2533.9889765696203, "endSec": 2557.7833309999996, "text": "And every five years, we have to basically go and, and I say we songwriter advocacy groups, like I'm part of Sona, songwriters of North America, everyone should join that, go and advocate for songwriters and say like, hey, we think it should be this much and the judges look and they're like, okay, and they either approve it or disapprove it. And that's how we decide these royalty rates and", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 2557.7833309999996, "endSec": 2574.733331, "text": "Yes. uh you know they're astonishingly low because spotify basically because of how the laws are we don't they don't have to ask us for permission they can just like do it and and worry about it later i'm oversimplifying this but now the fight is we're trying to", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 2575.537331, "endSec": 2598.8373309999997, "text": "continually get this you know push this copyright royalty board to raise the rates the other fight that we're trying to do is try and reclassify songwriters um so we can uh collectively bargain and negotiate similar to how actors and screenwriters and everyone else does uh because i get that question all the time why don't you guys just unionize and legally", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 2599.697331, "endSec": 2611.0473309999998, "text": "It's questionable, but legally we can't. The simplest form of that is that if songwriters all get together, it could be seen as price fixing, which is a monopolistic action and we're not able to do it.", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 2611.0473309999998, "endSec": 2627.4733309999997, "text": "Mm-hmm. In my opinion, it's a very stupid way to interpret the law, but that is how the law is. So you have multiple organizations trying to lobby Congress currently to change. how songwriters are classified uber writers had the same problem and", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 2627.4733309999997, "endSec": 2639.123331, "text": "Hmm. we were actually really hoping uber was going to win and i'm sorry not uber the uber drivers were going to win and they didn't um because that would have like we could have like leaned on that interpretation", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 2639.123331, "endSec": 2652.385331, "text": "Interesting. of the law a Yeah. little bit Yeah. yeah so you know it's all around like independent contractors and how we're able to work and not work uh producers have the same problem it's why we can't really unionize either and", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 2652.385331, "endSec": 2658.8353309999998, "text": "Yes. be like hey like we we have set rates Yes. Right. um as opposed to negotiating every single time", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 2658.8353309999998, "endSec": 2666.385331, "text": "Yeah. Right. Like in the, in a way that, yeah, if you hire a cinematographer or a grip or whatever, name the name, the thing,", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 2666.385331, "endSec": 2677.6893309999996, "text": "right like film they set have minimums is there like, that are just like this is the minimum and then like if you could negotiate more wonderful but like these are the industry standard and that's you know that's what i was saying when i said way earlier way earlier about like this race to the bottom especially", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 2677.6893309999996, "endSec": 2689.1893309999996, "text": "Hmm. in sync it's been this constant race to the bottom because you Yes. know we always need money we're always so hungry and they just like keep like paying less and less and less and less and it's always someone being like well i'll do it for that much you", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 2689.1893309999996, "endSec": 2704.5113309999997, "text": "Right. Right. know um Totally. yeah Yeah. so that's the importance of organization and trying to form a union and you know it's a hard it's a hard long battle people want instant results, but that's not how it's going to work, unfortunately.", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 2704.561331, "endSec": 2729.5673309999997, "text": "Yeah, for sure. The interesting thing that I found is, you know, I've been doing this for a while now, almost 10 year professional career. And the rates that I was getting paid to do sync demos back then are the same that I get paid now. roughly like 250 300 bucks a demo and then you you get that you can get the um payout like if you actually land the sink but", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 2729.5673309999997, "endSec": 2736.517331, "text": "yeah yeah see the demo fees have pretty much been the same thing over the course of like eight years yeah", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 2736.517331, "endSec": 2748.655331, "text": "i've seen them go down yeah i'm not in it as much but when i was doing it i remember what the rates were and i have a buddy who mostly does sync and he'll sometimes send me like things be like does this good i'm like That was like three times as much", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 2748.655331, "endSec": 2754.055331, "text": "Right. what I was doing I guess now at this point it was like 13 14 years ago like almost 13 years ago when I was doing it", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 2754.055331, "endSec": 2756.905331, "text": "But what I'm saying is like, Yeah, think about all the inflation during I that know", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 2756.905331, "endSec": 2760.455331, "text": "time. that's what I'm saying. Yeah, it's Yeah, like you're it's still less it's yeah, exactly. Or like", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 2760.455331, "endSec": 2769.005331, "text": "Yeah, the $4,000 per million stream figure that right is, that's been that way for a while. You know what I mean?", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 2769.3553309999998, "endSec": 2774.405331, "text": "Yeah So it feels like the whole world has gotten more expensive.", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 2774.193331, "endSec": 2777.693331, "text": "more expensive but then yeah the songwriter is either gone down or stayed flat which", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 2777.693331, "endSec": 2777.843331, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 2777.843331, "endSec": 2778.193331, "text": "is actually", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 2778.193331, "endSec": 2778.4933309999997, "text": "I mean,", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 2778.4933309999997, "endSec": 2778.693331, "text": "really annoying", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 2778.693331, "endSec": 2780.143331, "text": "so songwriters did actually", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 2780.143331, "endSec": 2780.393331, "text": "yeah", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 2780.393331, "endSec": 2781.443331, "text": "get a raise recently.", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 2781.443331, "endSec": 2782.043331, "text": "cool i", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 2782.043331, "endSec": 2782.4933309999997, "text": "Not a lot of", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 2782.4933309999997, "endSec": 2782.543331, "text": "did", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 2782.543331, "endSec": 2782.7433309999997, "text": "people know", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 2782.7433309999997, "endSec": 2783.893331, "text": "hear about about that i did hear about it", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 2783.893331, "endSec": 2784.093331, "text": "yeah that.", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 2784.093331, "endSec": 2784.143331, "text": "uh", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 2784.143331, "endSec": 2799.9933309999997, "text": "So 5, I forget, 2020-ish, we got the judges to raise the rate and it was frozen because Amazon and Spotify and a couple other people were basically fighting it being like, hey, we want to appeal this and then it took.", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 2813.8359965, "endSec": 2815.6359965, "text": "possibly like two months ago.", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 2815.7359965, "endSec": 2815.8359965, "text": "Cool.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 2815.8359965, "endSec": 2817.4359965, "text": "So you actually should start seeing", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 2817.4359965, "endSec": 2817.6359965, "text": "Great.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 2817.6359965, "endSec": 2818.7859965000002, "text": "on your publishing statements.", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 2818.7859965000002, "endSec": 2819.3359965, "text": "Cool.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 2820.5359965000002, "endSec": 2829.6139965, "text": "And from your publishers or if yourself published um you can look at your own statements there uh it's like a 40 increase we got", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 2829.6139965, "endSec": 2829.9639965, "text": "in Amazing.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 2829.9639965, "endSec": 2830.0639965, "text": "royalties", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 2830.0639965, "endSec": 2830.3639965, "text": "Amazing.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 2830.3639965, "endSec": 2830.6139965, "text": "um", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 2830.6139965, "endSec": 2831.1139965, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 2831.1139965, "endSec": 2839.6639965, "text": "and and you'll see that i think it's from the time period from like 2017 2018 to like 2022 2023 so it's actually backlogging it's not future it's", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 2839.6639965, "endSec": 2840.3139965, "text": "That's backlogging awesome.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 2840.3139965, "endSec": 2855.5799965, "text": "and future now the problem again is that spotify this is where i'm like kind of screw spotify is i don't know it's not talked enough enough Uh, enough yet, but, um, they changed, they introduced audiobooks recently", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 2855.5799965, "endSec": 2856.1299965, "text": "Yes.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 2856.1299965, "endSec": 2862.6619965, "text": "and They basically automatically signed everyone up for the Spotify premium that includes audiobooks.", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 2862.6619965, "endSec": 2862.9119965, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 2862.9119965, "endSec": 2875.4119965, "text": "And now Spotify is arguing that like, oh, well, we've made this new thing, we have to pay for these audiobooks. So actually, we're not going to pay the rate that you guys made us pay moving forward.", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 2875.4119965, "endSec": 2875.5119965, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 2875.5119965, "endSec": 2884.3119965, "text": "So now the NMPA, which is the National Music Publishers Association, and Sona were both taking Spotify to court again.", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 2884.8759965, "endSec": 2901.0759965, "text": "Hmm. to basically say no you can't do that you also consumers didn't get to choose that option you forced them into it so spotify's whole game is that um they forced everyone to go to this option and they're like well people can opt out if", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 2901.0759965, "endSec": 2910.4259965, "text": "I they don't opted want right out. this right and like we know this um and uh like people can opt out if they want to but it's like no one's going to take the time to do that like", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 2910.6039965, "endSec": 2910.6039965, "text": "I know.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 2910.6039965, "endSec": 2923.5119965, "text": "If the price didn't change... Who's going to remember to do it? And that's the problem. And there's other laws in the book that we're trying to use to fight that back. So hopefully we'll", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 2923.5119965, "endSec": 2924.0119965, "text": "Yes. Yes.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 2924.0119965, "endSec": 2924.8119965, "text": "win this, but it's", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 2924.8119965, "endSec": 2925.0119965, "text": "Totally.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 2925.0119965, "endSec": 2927.0619965, "text": "going to be a long process as all legal battles are.", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 2927.0619965, "endSec": 2948.2459965, "text": "Right. And as an appeal to the listener, I don't want any of this to sound like we're trying to like come after more of people's money. What I'm really trying to say is I want the money to go to the creators more. Like. Like, I think YouTube is a very good example of something that started from a... pretty illicit place where", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 2948.2459965, "endSec": 2948.4459965, "text": "Mm", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 2948.4459965, "endSec": 2972.9459965, "text": "it was-hmm. just taking content pretending like oh they uploaded it i didn't upload it not really policing it and that's kind of how they grew into be that dominant player and then they start policing but it's the use of creators and people that work to make the things that you love that entertain you um not being able to yeah save for retirement or pay for cancer treatment or do any of the things that normal", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 2972.9399965000002, "endSec": 2986.2899965, "text": "normal people have to do and they force it forces you as an end user as a consumer to have less entertainment and then also to not have the dollars that you are spending go to the people that are creating but instead it goes to this tech company and they're", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 2986.2899965, "endSec": 2986.9899965, "text": "Yeah, I mean,", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 2986.9899965, "endSec": 2987.1899965000002, "text": "going to I take", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 2987.1899965000002, "endSec": 2987.4399965000002, "text": "have a hot", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 2987.4399965000002, "endSec": 2987.5399965, "text": "over", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 2987.5399965, "endSec": 2987.5899965, "text": "take", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 2987.5899965, "endSec": 2987.7399965, "text": "the world", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 2987.7399965, "endSec": 2988.1899965000002, "text": "on this that", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 2988.1899965000002, "endSec": 2988.3899965, "text": "yeah", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 2988.3899965, "endSec": 2998.7399965, "text": "most people, I mean, songwriters agree with me, but most regular humans don't, is that the fact that Spotify is what, 10, 15 bucks a month, depending on what you get, is ridiculous.", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 2999.3079965, "endSec": 2999.3079965, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 2999.3079965, "endSec": 3000.0079965, "text": "um you", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 3000.0079965, "endSec": 3000.3079965, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3000.3079965, "endSec": 3024.8579965, "text": "know if i told someone 25 years ago it's like hey for 10 a month you can get all the music ever made when we were going to record stores and buying cds for 18 a pop you know so like it started with napster where we devalued music and people thought that like music is free and then itunes came and everyone was like songs are a dollar and then spotify came and it was like songs are free", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 3025.4519965, "endSec": 3030.5519965, "text": "with ads or you can pay 10 15 bucks a month and to me that", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 3030.5519965, "endSec": 3031.1019965, "text": "Mm-hmm.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3031.1019965, "endSec": 3056.4239965, "text": "is that that's the biggest problem the fact that we as a society devalued music so so so so much i like i'm a firm believer i think we face a lot of problems with songwriters if we make that price like 20 25 a month i know that's that's a that would turn a lot of people off but you know i tell people like how many streaming services are you paying for for", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 3056.4239965, "endSec": 3056.5739965000002, "text": "yeah", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3056.5739965000002, "endSec": 3061.3239965000002, "text": "like 10 bucks a month and like you have limited options like it's not even doesn't even everything because", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 3061.3239965000002, "endSec": 3062.7739965, "text": "that that's a good point yeah that's", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3062.7739965, "endSec": 3063.1239965, "text": "know and", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 3063.1239965, "endSec": 3071.7739965, "text": "a good point yeah if you're paying 20 bucks yeah for netflix you're only getting netflix stuff you're not getting everything every movie that's ever existed it's like what would you pay for that yeah", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3071.7739965, "endSec": 3080.9319965, "text": "you right you get every song ever made mostly 99.99999% of songs so you know i i i i really truly truly truly believe that", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 3080.9319965, "endSec": 3081.1319965000002, "text": "Mm", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3081.1319965000002, "endSec": 3081.3319965, "text": "and", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 3081.3319965, "endSec": 3081.4319965, "text": "-hmm,", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3081.4319965, "endSec": 3085.2319965, "text": "again it's going to take a lot of actions probably from congress to", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 3085.2319965, "endSec": 3085.5319965, "text": "mm-hmm,", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3085.5319965, "endSec": 3097.8819965000002, "text": "be like all right well you you want uh all the music that remains got to be this much in order to pay these rates or you want it to be free it's going to be like radio where every three songs every three four songs there's a commercial", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 3098.3819965000002, "endSec": 3098.6319965000002, "text": "mm-hmm.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3098.7319965, "endSec": 3106.0819965, "text": "like that's that's the only way and it's it's kind of what happened um with cable people don't know this but like years ago when the cable was introduced", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 3106.3799965, "endSec": 3106.6299965, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3106.6299965, "endSec": 3136.9259965, "text": "that it was like basically and i might be getting a couple facts wrong so i apologize if i am um but it was a really low price and then the screenwriters and actors were like what the hell guys like we're not getting paid for any of this and because they had unions they were able to basically force them to like pay them the rates and then the price of cable shot up and they were basically like well guys it's the actors like what are you gonna do and everyone just did it like i'm fine with person this is i know it's like not everyone believes this but i'm", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 3136.9079965, "endSec": 3138.9579965000003, "text": "I'm fine being the bad guy, as", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 3138.9579965000003, "endSec": 3139.5079965, "text": "Mm-hmm.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3139.5079965, "endSec": 3148.4579965000003, "text": "in if Spotify and Apple Music and everyone want to be like, the songwriters are complaining that we got to pay them, we have to raise the prices. You want to blame us? Sure, fine, I don't care.", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 3149.3559965, "endSec": 3149.3559965, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3149.3559965, "endSec": 3166.6559965, "text": "I really, I don't care. But you have to force consumers to do it or else it's never going to happen. You have to force them to either accept more advertisements or accept a higher price because consumers have just chosen to devalue music over the last 25 years. And that's just the truth, the hard truth that they don't want to hear.", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 3167.6919965, "endSec": 3185.4419965, "text": "Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I'd be interested too, to see what the appetite would be, like how many people would stop, but that still might be enough to make up for that. And it's interesting to consider, yeah, we were paying, yeah, 18 bucks, 18.85 or whatever, 95 for a CD.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3185.7419965, "endSec": 3186.0419965, "text": "Yeah,", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 3186.0419965, "endSec": 3186.2419965, "text": "And", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3186.2419965, "endSec": 3186.4419965, "text": "and this", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 3186.4419965, "endSec": 3186.6419965, "text": "then think", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3186.6419965, "endSec": 3186.7919965, "text": "was this", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 3186.7919965, "endSec": 3186.8919965, "text": "about,", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3186.8919965, "endSec": 3187.0419965, "text": "this", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 3187.0419965, "endSec": 3187.1419965, "text": "exactly,", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3187.1419965, "endSec": 3188.8919965, "text": "was before inflation. That's what I'm saying like that's", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 3188.8919965, "endSec": 3189.1419965, "text": "exactly.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3189.1419965, "endSec": 3190.3919965, "text": "like like 25 30 bucks", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 3190.3919965, "endSec": 3190.4419965, "text": "Right.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3190.4419965, "endSec": 3190.6919965, "text": "now", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 3190.8919965, "endSec": 3191.8419965000003, "text": "Totally. Totally.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3191.8419965000003, "endSec": 3191.9919965, "text": "You", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 3191.9919965, "endSec": 3192.4919965, "text": "For one know CD.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3192.4919965, "endSec": 3192.7419965, "text": "right", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 3192.7419965, "endSec": 3193.1919965, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3193.8679965, "endSec": 3193.8679965, "text": "and", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 3193.8679965, "endSec": 3194.1679965000003, "text": "i bet", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3194.1679965000003, "endSec": 3194.2179965, "text": "i", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 3194.2179965, "endSec": 3194.2679965, "text": "for", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3194.2679965, "endSec": 3194.4179965000003, "text": "get that", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 3194.4179965000003, "endSec": 3194.5179965, "text": "all", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3194.5179965, "endSec": 3194.6179965, "text": "it's", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 3194.6179965, "endSec": 3194.6679965000003, "text": "cities", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3194.6679965000003, "endSec": 3211.8679965, "text": "something right and i understand that it's something physical that's something that you get to keep but it's like we also knew at that point too where it's like we had you know records and the tapes and the cds everything was eventually going to get phased out we knew it was eventually going to get phased out so like i think that argument of like well it's something physical you get to keep it's like come on you knew it wasn't going to be forever like get out", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 3211.8679965, "endSec": 3211.9179965000003, "text": "yeah", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3211.9179965000003, "endSec": 3212.2179965, "text": "of here yeah right", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 3212.2179965, "endSec": 3220.3039965000003, "text": "you bought you bought the abbey road like 14 times come on like you got the you got the the cassette version the vinyl the cd either yeah", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3220.3039965000003, "endSec": 3230.6039965, "text": "And so, you know, like I love, I understand like the push for models of like people wanting to like make sure the money goes to the artist that they listen to more. Like I think those models are great. That makes sense.", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 3230.6039965, "endSec": 3232.5039965, "text": "i agree i agree", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3232.5039965, "endSec": 3240.6099965000003, "text": "You know, but. Yeah, so I don't know. That's why it's like I'm just like a firm believer that sometimes just got to force people to like, eat their vegetables.", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 3241.0099965, "endSec": 3241.3599965000003, "text": "Mm hmm.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3241.3599965000003, "endSec": 3241.5099965, "text": "And", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 3241.5099965, "endSec": 3241.8099965, "text": "I", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3241.8099965, "endSec": 3241.9599965, "text": "yeah,", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 3241.9599965, "endSec": 3243.0099965, "text": "understand that. I understand", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3243.0099965, "endSec": 3243.0599965, "text": "yeah,", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 3243.0599965, "endSec": 3248.4099965, "text": "that. And then hopefully transparency, too, because, yeah, I would love to verify I can trust, but I'd like to verify", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3248.4099965, "endSec": 3248.5599965, "text": "right.", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 3248.5599965, "endSec": 3258.4599965, "text": "the the actual validity of you get this much attention, you get this much money rather than thumbs being on all sorts of scales, which.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3258.4599965, "endSec": 3267.9959965, "text": "Yeah. I mean, but two, it's like, you know, it's a little socialistic, but it's like how you know actors and screenwriters are able to to eat and i keep comparing us to them because", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 3267.9959965, "endSec": 3268.1959965, "text": "it's", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3268.1959965, "endSec": 3268.4959965, "text": "if a good they're", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 3268.4959965, "endSec": 3270.0459965, "text": "comparison because they're the closest analog", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3270.0459965, "endSec": 3270.4459965, "text": "you", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 3270.4459965, "endSec": 3271.9959965, "text": "of decentralized but", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3271.9959965, "endSec": 3272.0959965, "text": "know", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 3272.0959965, "endSec": 3275.4959965, "text": "centralized creatives that make good livable wages yet", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3275.4959965, "endSec": 3294.5099965, "text": "right it's like you you make things expensive so all the people at the bottom can eat too and that's the kind of like system i kind of want to believe in where it's like you know like songwriters that have like i'm not saying if you're an artist where you have a couple thousand streams that you should be like making a good living off of that it's like no you shouldn't be like", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 3294.5099965, "endSec": 3294.5599965, "text": "I", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3294.5599965, "endSec": 3294.8099965, "text": "that's", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 3294.8099965, "endSec": 3294.9099965, "text": "don't", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3294.9099965, "endSec": 3295.0099965, "text": "you", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 3295.0099965, "endSec": 3295.1599965, "text": "think anybody,", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3295.1599965, "endSec": 3295.5099965, "text": "know right", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 3295.5099965, "endSec": 3295.9099965, "text": "yeah,", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3295.9099965, "endSec": 3300.0599965, "text": "right i mean there are some people believe me there are some people be like oh i should be making good money off They that but they", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 3300.0599965, "endSec": 3301.1099965000003, "text": "should still see something though.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3301.1099965000003, "endSec": 3307.0099965, "text": "should just see something yeah but it's like you know i'm talking about like the songwriters who were legitimately successful in", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 3307.0099965, "endSec": 3307.4099965, "text": "Yes,", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3307.4099965, "endSec": 3307.5099965, "text": "the", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 3307.5099965, "endSec": 3307.6599965, "text": "yes.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3307.6599965, "endSec": 3312.1719965, "text": "sense where it's like they have big songs millions upon millions of streams if not they're not", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 3312.1719965, "endSec": 3312.2719965, "text": "Yes.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3312.2719965, "endSec": 3316.7719965, "text": "billions and they are like solidly lower middle class and", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 3316.7719965, "endSec": 3317.0219965, "text": "Right.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3317.0219965, "endSec": 3317.3719965, "text": "and", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 3317.3719965, "endSec": 3317.6219965, "text": "Totally.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3317.6219965, "endSec": 3319.6219965, "text": "a lot of them are struggling struggling", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 3319.6219965, "endSec": 3319.9719965, "text": "Yes.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3319.9719965, "endSec": 3320.7719965, "text": "you", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 3320.7719965, "endSec": 3320.8719965, "text": "Yes.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3320.8719965, "endSec": 3324.8219965, "text": "know and like a lot of them i don't plenty of people who have like huge hits they have like a part-time job still you", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 3324.8219965, "endSec": 3325.6719965, "text": "Totally. Of course.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3325.6719965, "endSec": 3329.5719965, "text": "know that to me is the crazy part and that's what i'm that as a songwriter advocate", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 3330.5719965, "endSec": 3334.1219965, "text": "and and it's what i'm always very blunt about is what i'm striving to fix because", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 3334.1219965, "endSec": 3334.4719965, "text": "Yep.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3334.4719965, "endSec": 3346.3719965, "text": "it wasn't like this you talk to songwriters 25 years ago and it's like oh you get a cut on like an album you know for a moderately successful pop artist like you were you were living you were making good money you know", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 3346.9559965, "endSec": 3347.1059965, "text": "Right.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3347.1059965, "endSec": 3347.4059965, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 3347.4059965, "endSec": 3368.5059965, "text": "And then you can take that money though, and this is how it ends up helping the consumer of music, the fans, you take that money, now you can buy that outboard gear. Now you can like invest in your career, invest in growth, fly out to that session in Paris or whatever with this cool emerging artist and say, I'm going to take this one on. Like you have those resources that now you can deploy to make art better.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3370.5399965, "endSec": 3377.0899965, "text": "exactly yeah i think like listen i i think most producers and songwriters would agree with me that like i started making such better songs when i was financially comfortable when", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 3377.0899965, "endSec": 3377.5899965, "text": "Yeah, yeah,", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3377.5899965, "endSec": 3377.9399965000002, "text": "i wasn't", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 3377.9399965000002, "endSec": 3378.0399965, "text": "yeah.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3378.0399965, "endSec": 3396.3899965, "text": "as always as worried about money is when i was making in my opinion better music you know like the first couple songs that made me money were like these like whatever edm top lines that i did where i was just like writing over edm tracks and like sending over top lines and like they made money you know i'm very", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 3396.6839965, "endSec": 3396.6839965, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3396.6839965, "endSec": 3420.8339965, "text": "so proud of some of them not all of them but then once i had like some money in my pocket and i was like oh okay like i can like relax and not like be like i have to write a hit every day it's like that's when i wrote like some of like my i don't know like my most well-received songs like artist songs that are like the deep cuts that fans love you know like things like that where it's like i didn't always have the courage to do that and now i'm always down to do that kind of stuff", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 3421.7399965, "endSec": 3423.5399965, "text": "Yeah, that's a really powerful message.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3423.5399965, "endSec": 3424.1399965, "text": "Yeah, yeah.", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 3424.1399965, "endSec": 3449.2899965, "text": "On that note, I have a final question that I like to ask every guest. So the show is called Love Music More. The segment is called Love Music Why? And it's just a moment to talk about why do you still have that passion for music? Why do you still feel that rush when you write a new song or when you collectively get together with a group and you're all in sync creating together? What is it about music?", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3449.2899965, "endSec": 3451.5899965, "text": "that makes you love it so much.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3452.7899965, "endSec": 3475.8899965, "text": "You know, it's always pulling me. No matter what I'm doing in life, you know, I mentioned earlier that I was working a regular job and, you know, I love my job, but music always kept pulling me. I never stopped doing it. And even now, you know, there's times when...", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 3475.8899965, "endSec": 3501.2279965, "text": "take a week two or three off um you know to spend time with my family or go on vacation and those are times when i get like the best ideas or just like be walking and something will pop my head i'll be like ah crap and i have to take out my phone and take out my voice memo and record it and work on it later but i think that's what it is it's something that's so natural in me", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 3502.0599965, "endSec": 3527.6599965, "text": "that it's like this magnet that just like is always going to pull me towards it no matter what i do even if i become unsuccessful and i have to start working a regular job i'm still always going to do music because it's i don't think it's something that's ever going to turn off and you know the fact that the fact that i get to do this for for a living and and uh you know i my one joke", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 3528.3319965, "endSec": 3531.5819965, "text": "Is that my job as I sit around and fuck around all day?", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 3531.8319965, "endSec": 3532.2319965, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3532.2819965, "endSec": 3552.7479965, "text": "That's my job. I just mess around and see what happens and I throw a bunch of paint at the wall and try and find beauty in it. And, you know, the fact that that's, I don't know what I assume is my calling is incredible. So, you know, I don't think I have a choice but to do music. That", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 3552.7479965, "endSec": 3552.9979965, "text": "that's", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3552.9979965, "endSec": 3553.2979965, "text": "makes sense.", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 3553.2979965, "endSec": 3559.6979965, "text": "it does it very much does and yeah when you deny that choice it just gets louder and louder just", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3559.6979965, "endSec": 3560.0479965, "text": "Oh,", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 3560.0479965, "endSec": 3560.1979965, "text": "yeah", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3560.1979965, "endSec": 3567.3479965, "text": "yeah. Yeah, the second like if I'm away from music, it just like I start getting more and more ideas, you know, so it's that's why I also forced myself to take breaks.", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 3567.3479965, "endSec": 3567.5479965, "text": "totally", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3567.5479965, "endSec": 3567.8979965, "text": "It's", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 3567.8979965, "endSec": 3567.9979965, "text": "no", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3567.9979965, "endSec": 3568.0979965, "text": "good.", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 3568.0979965, "endSec": 3588.7039965000004, "text": "i agree i agree i am the exact same way where yeah the longer vacation or just you haven't touched a guitar for a little while or whatever it's just like you get that feeling but it's it's it's good too you don't want to and you don't want to silence it you want to lean into it but it's good to stoke that that like a distance makes the heart grow fonder kind of thing for", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3588.7039965000004, "endSec": 3588.9039965, "text": "yes", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 3588.9039965, "endSec": 3589.2039965000004, "text": "this one", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3589.2039965000004, "endSec": 3596.1539965, "text": "yes and also the exact opposite of it where if you if you're doing music and it feels gross just like stop walk away", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 3596.1539965, "endSec": 3597.6039965, "text": "totally totally walk agree", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3597.6039965, "endSec": 3606.2399965, "text": "away like i i it took me so long to allow myself to do that where i'll be producing something and i'll be like i am not enjoying this and", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 3606.2399965, "endSec": 3606.8399965, "text": "Yes.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3606.8399965, "endSec": 3612.6899965000002, "text": "like i'm i allow myself just like walk away from it try again tomorrow like that's okay you know it", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 3612.6899965000002, "endSec": 3612.9899965, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3612.9899965, "endSec": 3614.2399965, "text": "happens but it goes both ways yep", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 3614.2399965, "endSec": 3621.1399965, "text": "Totally. Yeah. No, it's like the term get the ick. Like sometimes they get the ick and", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3621.1399965, "endSec": 3621.3899965, "text": "right", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 3621.3899965, "endSec": 3621.9899965, "text": "I just gotta,", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3621.9899965, "endSec": 3622.3399965, "text": "yeah yeah", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 3622.3399965, "endSec": 3622.6399965, "text": "yeah.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3622.6399965, "endSec": 3630.4239965, "text": "gotta walk away from it's okay go play a video game go watch some tv go watch a movie like you know Who cares it's", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 3630.4239965, "endSec": 3631.7739965, "text": "Totally. That's great advice.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3631.7739965, "endSec": 3632.0239965, "text": "yeah,", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 3632.0239965, "endSec": 3638.2239965, "text": "And yes, if you have a little bit of financial flexibility, it's a lot easier to be able to be like, this isn't working.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3639.1239965, "endSec": 3645.4519965, "text": "yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean, I mean there's times when it's like you know i'll set up myself to have like some production days um", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 3645.4519965, "endSec": 3645.9519965, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3645.9519965, "endSec": 3649.5019965, "text": "to work on stuff um especially if i'm working on an album and", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 3649.5019965, "endSec": 3649.9519965, "text": "Mm-hmm.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3649.9519965, "endSec": 3670.5019965, "text": "i'll sit and i'll just be like man i i didn't do anything good yesterday i'm not doing anything good today and i was just like i won't work for two days i'll like go in the house and like start like being creative in the kitchen or being creative you know like i have a garden out here like start doing things in the garden you know just allowing myself to like step away and that's that's been", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 3671.2119965, "endSec": 3672.5119965, "text": "That's great advice that", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 3672.5119965, "endSec": 3672.7119965, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3672.7119965, "endSec": 3681.0119965, "text": "like, if I, you know, allowing yourself to just like walk away and relax and not worry about it. I understand sometimes there's deadlines that", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 3681.0119965, "endSec": 3681.4619965, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3681.4619965, "endSec": 3687.6119965, "text": "you have to do. And, you know, I've done plenty of those and I've gotten great work like that sometimes.", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 3687.6119965, "endSec": 3687.9119965, "text": "Yes.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3687.9119965, "endSec": 3692.5619965, "text": "But, you know, working like that all the time is, it ain't healthy.", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 3692.8619965, "endSec": 3696.8039965, "text": "Yeah. Agreed. And yeah, it's listening to that body, listening to that muse.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3697.0039965, "endSec": 3697.5039965, "text": "Yeah,", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 3697.5039965, "endSec": 3698.4039965, "text": "And on that,", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3698.4039965, "endSec": 3698.5039965, "text": "yeah.", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 3698.5039965, "endSec": 3706.8539965, "text": "really, really great advice, Justin. It was a pleasure, pleasure talking. Where can people connect? I'd love for them to check out your podcast as well. Producer points,", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3706.8539965, "endSec": 3707.0039965, "text": "Yeah,", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 3707.0039965, "endSec": 3708.0039965, "text": "awesome, awesome content.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3708.0039965, "endSec": 3723.2579965, "text": "producer points. You can listen to it everywhere podcasts are available. You know, follow us on the Instagram or the TikTok. We're on YouTube as well. Yeah, take a listen if you get. It's definitely a nerdy producer podcast, but I think it's for all music lovers. music lovers as well.", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 3723.5579965, "endSec": 3728.0579965, "text": "Love that. I think we have a fair share of nerdy producer listeners as well, so", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3728.0579965, "endSec": 3728.2579965, "text": "Good.", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 3728.2579965, "endSec": 3728.6079965, "text": "maybe", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3728.6079965, "endSec": 3729.5579965, "text": "That's what we want.", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 3729.5579965, "endSec": 3730.1579965, "text": "some overlap.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3730.1579965, "endSec": 3730.8579965, "text": "That's what we want.", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 3731.1079965, "endSec": 3733.6079965, "text": "Awesome, Justin. Well, I hope you have a great rest of your week and", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3733.6079965, "endSec": 3734.0579965, "text": "Yeah, yeah.", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" }, { "startSec": 3734.0579965, "endSec": 3735.5579965, "text": "it's such a pleasure connecting.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3735.7079965000003, "endSec": 3736.6579965, "text": "Same, man. Thanks.", "speaker": "Justin Gammella" } ], "correctionsApplied": [] }