{ "schemaVersion": "v1", "slug": "guy-shkolnik", "title": "To Learn The Sound with Dr. Guy Shkolnik (PhD in Bach, Music Theory Influencer)", "kind": "interview", "listenUrl": "https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/lovemusicmore/episodes/To-Learn-The-Sound-with-Dr--Guy-Shkolnik-PhD-in-Bach--Music-Theory-Influencer-e39q216", "contentStartSec": 109.396, "publishedAt": "2026-10-14", "source": { "provider": "openai", "model": "gpt-4o-transcribe-diarize", "normalizedSchema": "v1", "transcribedAt": "2026-06-09T21:21:19.949Z" }, "paragraphs": [ { "startSec": 109.396, "endSec": 115.796, "text": "What's good, everybody? Welcome back to Love Music More. I am Scoobert Doobert and I am joined with Guy Shkolnik. Welcome to the show.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 116.846, "endSec": 118.546, "text": "Thank you. Thank you for having me.", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 118.546, "endSec": 136.196, "text": "So Guy, I've been a big fan of your Instagram channel and your YouTube. I have loved your deep dives into music theory. I was also totally obsessed with your little mini videos going through some of the Japanese city pop harmony. So excited to nerd out on music stuff with you.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 136.916, "endSec": 164.72799999999998, "text": "Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, I remember those. That was the first one. Though it was a nice way of, you know, demonstrating harmony through living composition instead of just, you know, talking about chord progressions in isolation.", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 165.028, "endSec": 181.578, "text": "I love harmony like that, chords like that, because it is so fun to write melodies over them. Like when you have a harmony that is kind of moving and doing stuff, you just start to like be able to draw these beautiful lines. When you just have kind of static harmony, it's sometimes it's harder to come up.", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 181.578, "endSec": 188.34599999999998, "text": "come up with something because the harmony isn't really giving you any inspiration you're having to kind of draw it out at least that's been my experience yes", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 188.34599999999998, "endSec": 213.602, "text": "I agree with you, even though in this case melody and harmony came together because I'm starting with this chord and that was the natural note that I wanted on top and that's the chord. So it's not really a random melody,", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 213.602, "endSec": 259.658, "text": "Yeah. it's a, I think it's actually a chord progression with some movement in it. If I played it this way, so instead of just doing this, I'm doing... Instead of just moving this way I do so I'm outlining the chord and this these are just chords so harmony and melody Come together in in this case for me. Yeah,", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 259.658, "endSec": 272.158, "text": "I love it that. I love that. One of the things that I would love to kind of try and tackle is if somebody plays a little bit of guitar, a little bit of piano, but they don't know anything about music theory for whatever reason, it's scary, they don't know where to start.", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 273.208, "endSec": 279.408, "text": "is What would you recommend? How would you kind of break down some of those walls so that they can discover that it's fun, they can discover that it's like inspirational?", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 280.258, "endSec": 290.466, "text": "challenging because music theory is often taught but in isolation. Also in many harmony books, a lot of the examples come from classical music. So", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 290.466, "endSec": 318.44, "text": "Yes. you are left To do the translation yourself, often you go to a music school, even if you go to Berklee College of Music is a very good school. But even then, sometimes theory is one thing and composition and the music you love is another thing. And you need to have that teacher or that system or that someone.", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 318.44, "endSec": 326.68399999999997, "text": "Who can translate this thing the I I just made a video on Billy Joel's New York state of mind", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 326.68399999999997, "endSec": 334.334, "text": "Yeah, so great song. I I used it to show passing chords Yeah, What is a passing chord? If somebody, yeah, the example would be great,", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 334.334, "endSec": 342.384, "text": "passing yeah. chord is when you like when I'm moving from C major to a to a minor", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 344.596, "endSec": 379.602, "text": "so the bass has a there's a third between da da so I could add the da da da in between in the bass so this is a passing tone now I can play several different chords over this passing tone I could go that's a passing tone more classical or I could go That's another option. Or I could even not do anything with the right hand.", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 379.602, "endSec": 397.452, "text": "It's like a situation in a band when the bass player is playing the passing tone in the bass, but he's not telling anything about it to the pianist. So the pianist just keeps playing the first chord and then moving to the second chord without knowing about it. So this way you'll get...", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 399.508, "endSec": 399.95799999999997, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 399.95799999999997, "endSec": 408.89599999999996, "text": "So you see he keeps playing the same chord so you're getting very like beatlesy yeah i", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 408.89599999999996, "endSec": 415.19599999999997, "text": "exactly and also Bach Bach love used that that yes that's yeah there's a exactly", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 415.19599999999997, "endSec": 428.19599999999997, "text": "i think it was sting who was talking about how the bass player is the most powerful person in the band because you know whatever you do up on top i can decide if it's happy or sad or weird or dissonant just by what i choose to play in the lowest note", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 428.996, "endSec": 454.524, "text": "exactly and I love playing with the bass myself sometimes I come with you know my own composition and then I go to the synthesizer here to play a bass line so my first instinct is you know just to go with with what my left hand is doing on the piano just to play the root and the roots", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 454.524, "endSec": 463.644, "text": "Yeah. but sometimes when I when I try to go I get all these These new colors Hmm. Yeah.", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 463.644, "endSec": 479.394, "text": "Because of what the bass is doing and I said wow that's that's nice, you know It's just going melodically like, you know think Paul McCartney bass parts very very melodic Did you know he used to record them after recording everything?", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 479.394, "endSec": 483.236, "text": "Which is so cool because you know exactly how much room you have. Yeah, Exactly.", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 483.236, "endSec": 492.386, "text": "yeah, He can be very melodic. For him, it was like, oh no, I'm just making music here with the instrument. I'm not just supporting the chords.", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 492.986, "endSec": 515.758, "text": "yeah. That is special. And I like the order of operations in music is fascinating because just by changing what you record first, second and third can so fundamentally change all of your decisions, the roles of each of those instruments. Like I like recording guitar last a lot of times because that's my strongest instrument. And so I'd like to kind of box myself into a corner.", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 515.758, "endSec": 523.1700000000001, "text": "You know, it's like the whole arrangement is pretty much done. Like where could guitar fit? And it's a fun exercise for me.", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 523.4200000000001, "endSec": 529.635037593985, "text": "Yeah Yeah, it's like the bass thing, but on the opposite side of the spectrum. Also, guitar is such a flexible instrument with all the different tones.", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 529.635037593985, "endSec": 551.2479999999999, "text": "Something that I would love to talk to you about, because I think a lot of people, when they come towards music theory, they hear like i don't want to learn the rules i don't want to learn this has to come after that but you were talking in one of your videos about how it's more like tendencies like just like with grammar there are certain words that tend to come after another word could you talk a little bit about that and share that with the listeners", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 551.348, "endSec": 581.8134, "text": "Yeah, you know in general I avoid using rules, the Yeah, term rules, yeah because I know how people feel about it. I know how I feel about it. And for example, I made a lot of videos on the Pat Metheny group. Do you happen to know the music by the Pat Metheny group? It's like the music that draws from everything, from pop, from jazz.", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 581.8134, "endSec": 593.62, "text": "And what they do is they go, they sometimes not even just break the rule by the rules by coming up with new types of chords. They change the timing of the chords.", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 593.62, "endSec": 652.9939999999999, "text": "Ah. You know, even we think of someone like Stevie Wonder when let's let's let's sing of an example. So the rhythm of, we call it harmonic rhythm. It's pretty regular. It's the thing you would expect. But I want to go back to your question. The thing about music theory, the beginning is boring. To make things easy later, you want to learn the scales. That's", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 652.9939999999999, "endSec": 676.812, "text": "Yeah where it starts from. And we have this C major scale and then... You know we can talk about chord progressions that like like like we did before the one moving to the sixth chord and back to the one and then we could add", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 677.684, "endSec": 703.534, "text": "you know, many different types of chords and you want that teacher or that instructor that will show you the beautiful possibilities, but also from songs you know because you can feel it. The Beatles, for example, I was playing passing chords here or beautiful examples by Bach.", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 703.534, "endSec": 728.944, "text": "and and then you go oh oh so these are passing chords so what key is it in it's in D major oh D major so you're going and then you start being interested in", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 728.944, "endSec": 741.1519999999999, "text": "Right. D major you Yeah. say oh so I have these two sharps okay it has two sharps all right so I'm moving down so what are you doing in the bass oh I'm just moving down the scale so", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 741.1519999999999, "endSec": 745.552, "text": "Yeah. you're going D C sharp Yeah. and You're taking those building blocks and you're starting", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 745.552, "endSec": 754.6519999999999, "text": "I to, yeah. mean I'm saying because you like the music you get you start getting interested in in the in the key of D major so", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 754.6519999999999, "endSec": 770.758, "text": "Yeah, yeah, oh yeah. so he's just moving down he's just moving down the scale scale cool so what are the notes c d c no d yes c sharp d major has c sharp in it Oh, all right. I want to know that, you", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 770.758, "endSec": 784.008, "text": "Okay. know, because if you just start theory, Yeah. okay, and throw 12 major scales, because there are 12, you need to learn them, you need to memorize them. It's not something you want to do,", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 784.008, "endSec": 793.908, "text": "Uh you -huh. Yeah. know, you need to be very, you need to know that at the end of the road, there's something good waiting for you.", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 794.868, "endSec": 801.868, "text": "Right. you know because you do that and i believe in showing the good uh Yeah. right at the right at the start one", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 801.868, "endSec": 844.172, "text": "Yes. of the things that i do uh when i teach for example how to move from c chord to f chord okay a lot of people see this uh they see okay so that's a c chord and that's the f chord like two major triads But really the connection is coming here. You play C major, you're in the C major environment. And C is the boss. It's like the whole chord. Now what happens when I take these two notes just to their neighbors?", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 844.172, "endSec": 853.4839999999999, "text": "And all of a sudden you have the F chord and it sounds like now like it grows out of the C.", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 855.7339999999999, "endSec": 886.586404199475, "text": "Yeah. Okay, so Yeah. what is the bass player going to do now? That's the question. Is the bass player going to support this? The first thing the bass player is saying, well, if you guys want to, I'm playing C. That's all. Okay, now if you guys want to visit your friends here, okay, I'm fine with it, but for me it's C.", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 886.586404199475, "endSec": 900.49, "text": "So that would be great for a song intro, for example, when we are still playing C, the chord progression hasn't started yet, we're just showing the listener what the groove is and", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 900.49, "endSec": 926.268, "text": "Uh-huh. what the key, where we are, the vibe, that's the intro. So for the bass player, he's like, okay, you guys can. You can even go down if you want, but for me it's C major. As far as I'm concerned, I'm C. Now, when the song starts and they move to these notes, now he can support the move.", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 929.18633225, "endSec": 940.0863322499999, "text": "he becomes the bass becomes active because he's ordering these move so the first example when he's when he's just playing C would be great for a song intro", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 942.4383322499999, "endSec": 960.0383322499999, "text": "uh the second one would be better for your for your verse or your chorus when you when when you want to um to hear that that progression so you're telling the bass hey man could you please support me i'm going to f so please play f so he's okay sure", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 960.0383322499999, "endSec": 979.16233225, "text": "yeah well that that's that actually hits on one of the things I really like about when you have two musicians that know music theory and then you can just be like hey just pedal that bass Or like, you know, something that instead of having to explain that whole concept, you have a common. word you can reach for a vocab word that", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 979.16233225, "endSec": 979.26233225, "text": "exactly", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 979.26233225, "endSec": 982.9623322499999, "text": "you're instantly on the same page you go okay yeah we got it right", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 982.9623322499999, "endSec": 998.66233225, "text": "and and you know another thing we did right now is explaining what is the relationship between the the two chords because because if you just think chord C chord F you said okay just two major triads but", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 998.66233225, "endSec": 998.9623322499999, "text": "i", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 998.9623322499999, "endSec": 999.0623322499999, "text": "when", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 999.0623322499999, "endSec": 1000.26233225, "text": "know those shapes yeah", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1000.26233225, "endSec": 1015.5583322499999, "text": "exactly but when you think of them like Okay, so I'm in the key of C major. What does it even mean to be in the key of C major? Is it just about what sharps of flat do I use? No. The key of C major is a family.", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 1016.00833225, "endSec": 1016.5583322499999, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1017.10833225, "endSec": 1029.3583322499999, "text": "And in this family you have notes that are more stable, like these notes 1, 3, and 5, and the rest of them, this, for example, note 2.", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 1030.05433225, "endSec": 1036.30433225, "text": "is a more active note when when we are when we are in in the C major environment is", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 1036.30433225, "endSec": 1036.85433225, "text": "Yeah,", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1036.85433225, "endSec": 1041.10433225, "text": "a C major now when you move to D it's it's it's less stable", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 1041.10433225, "endSec": 1041.60433225, "text": "yeah,", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1041.60433225, "endSec": 1042.15433225, "text": "it's more active", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 1042.15433225, "endSec": 1042.55433225, "text": "yeah, yeah", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1042.55433225, "endSec": 1062.10633225, "text": "it tends to move when you hear here it is this is a tendency it's a it doesn't need to go to see you go You can write any melody you want with it, but it", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 1062.10633225, "endSec": 1064.95633225, "text": "It doesn't need to go to C, it just tends to go to C.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1065.4063322499999, "endSec": 1085.40633225, "text": "tends to go to C. So you say, okay, so what is the F chord then, if I'm thinking from this perspective? So I'm moving from these are the three stable notes, one, three and five, and then I move to two. F is an active note, it's one of the less stable ones.", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 1085.40633225, "endSec": 1114.3783322499999, "text": "with a tendency to move down and then you say oh so in this scenario in this environment of C major F the F chord is not as stable as the C chord so all of a sudden instead of just talking about two you know equal chords you have one that is more stable you have one that's more active and then you know it's more sound now it sounds like a drama more more like", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 1114.3783322499999, "endSec": 1114.72833225, "text": "yeah", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1114.72833225, "endSec": 1114.77833225, "text": "okay", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 1114.77833225, "endSec": 1115.1283322499999, "text": "right", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1115.1283322499999, "endSec": 1116.6283322499999, "text": "so so you know", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 1116.6283322499999, "endSec": 1132.22833225, "text": "it adds that intrigue in the same way that i really think like you can make something sound more modern if you ignore the one chord a little bit more if you start the whole song on four it's just interesting like huh what what's going on here like i'm i'm interested like a fight scene", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1132.22833225, "endSec": 1132.27833225, "text": "exactly", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 1132.27833225, "endSec": 1133.3783322499999, "text": "or like", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1133.3783322499999, "endSec": 1133.77833225, "text": "exactly", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 1133.77833225, "endSec": 1134.8783322499999, "text": "james bond yeah", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1134.8783322499999, "endSec": 1157.53433225, "text": "great example and and but but you know actually this the thing is Because I did learn jazz and I did learn classical music when I was working on my PhD on Bach. It's weird because I took like 10 years to move to classical music because I didn't grow up playing classical music.", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 1157.53433225, "endSec": 1158.13433225, "text": "Oh, interesting.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1158.98233225, "endSec": 1162.18233225, "text": "But then I thought, I started studying piano with", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 1162.18233225, "endSec": 1162.43233225, "text": "Uh", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1162.43233225, "endSec": 1162.63233225, "text": "that", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 1162.63233225, "endSec": 1162.73233225, "text": "-huh.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1162.73233225, "endSec": 1170.98233225, "text": "teacher when I was 21. I got into Bach. I got into Chopin. I said, wow, this music is incredible. I need to know it.", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 1170.98233225, "endSec": 1171.18233225, "text": "Yes. Yes.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1171.18233225, "endSec": 1183.43233225, "text": "For me, it wasn't like, oh, these are the fundamentals. You need to know that before you play jazz. No, for me, it was like, oh, Chopin is like, is that the old chic Korea or he's the old, I don't know.", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 1183.43233225, "endSec": 1184.23233225, "text": "I get what you're saying.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1184.2823322499999, "endSec": 1201.75433225, "text": "They're the jazz masters of the past. And I learned that they used to improvise Yes. concerts and they used to do that. So I went to classical school and eventually I ended up writing a Ph.D. on Bach.", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 1201.75433225, "endSec": 1234.02433225, "text": "etc yeah i'm still practicing it every morning it's it's really challenging but but my point is the fundamentals that we saw before different look at music theory i think it's deeper not just to see chords but to see the relationship this is something that i learned from from classical", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 1235.01433225, "endSec": 1256.76433225, "text": "theory even then they would be teachers that would teach more okay this is a chord this is scale and there was one special teacher that taught me more the relationship and then I discovered that I could bring fundamental understandings about how their notes tend to move again tendency to jazz and all", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 1256.76433225, "endSec": 1256.91433225, "text": "Mm", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1256.91433225, "endSec": 1257.11433225, "text": "of a sudden", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 1257.11433225, "endSec": 1257.21433225, "text": "-hmm.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1257.21433225, "endSec": 1258.41433225, "text": "I could explain I", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 1258.41433225, "endSec": 1258.76433225, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1258.76433225, "endSec": 1277.66833225, "text": "could explain progressions that otherwise would be How do I, like, this is one. So you have, for example,", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 1277.66833225, "endSec": 1277.81833225, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1277.81833225, "endSec": 1288.51833225, "text": "this one is like. so", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 1288.51833225, "endSec": 1289.56833225, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1289.56833225, "endSec": 1297.9183322499998, "text": "you hear tension here and here's it then i said okay so so basically i have i", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 1301.11833225, "endSec": 1301.36833225, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1301.36833225, "endSec": 1302.31833225, "text": "know this motion so", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 1302.31833225, "endSec": 1302.6683322499998, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1302.6683322499998, "endSec": 1313.81833225, "text": "again he's starting away from home like you said before for like starting from the he's not starting uh no he's starting from", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 1315.1103322499998, "endSec": 1349.6437160337837, "text": "of this mysterious place and then you go where am i oh and that you were at but i was able to see i now i'm not because i've you know been in touch with the music of chopin and brahms and all that i'm not panicked when i see you know the music played across the entire keyboard like Can you hear that? Yeah. So you won't believe it.", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 1349.6437160337837, "endSec": 1382.90033225, "text": "When I saw the chords on top of this, it's an album called The Way Up by the Pat Metheny group, The Way Up. It's really great music. When I saw the chords on top, they were trying to capture this with chords. So they had like E augmented. no it was like E flat over E augmented so what are you going to do with that you", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 1382.90033225, "endSec": 1383.00033225, "text": "Yeah,", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1383.00033225, "endSec": 1383.35033225, "text": "know it's", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 1383.35033225, "endSec": 1383.60033225, "text": "yeah,", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1383.60033225, "endSec": 1383.85033225, "text": "it's", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 1383.85033225, "endSec": 1384.90033225, "text": "it's so unstable.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1384.90033225, "endSec": 1398.90033225, "text": "like it's like that crazy chord but but what what the classical music allows you to do at its best when when taught you know in a good deep way it allows you to see through the details and say oh it's basically", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 1401.63833225, "endSec": 1402.48833225, "text": "Yeah. Right.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1402.48833225, "endSec": 1404.43833225, "text": "it's not that scary anymore", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 1404.43833225, "endSec": 1418.53833225, "text": "yeah Yeah. Well, I think that gets at a really good point about music theory where so much of it is simple things stacked on top of each other in the same way that like a 13 chord is so scary, but it's just two major chords on top of each other.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1419.38833225, "endSec": 1423.88833225, "text": "exactly or you could even see the way I like to see the 13 chord", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 1423.88833225, "endSec": 1424.73833225, "text": "Yeah, sure.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1428.29433225, "endSec": 1428.99433225, "text": "On the piano it's", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 1428.99433225, "endSec": 1429.24433225, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1429.24433225, "endSec": 1429.6943322500001, "text": "easier.", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 1429.89433225, "endSec": 1429.9443322500001, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1429.9443322500001, "endSec": 1430.6943322500001, "text": "It's like, so", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 1430.6943322500001, "endSec": 1431.14433225, "text": "Piano there.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1431.14433225, "endSec": 1432.74433225, "text": "this", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 1432.74433225, "endSec": 1433.29433225, "text": "Mm-hmm.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1433.29433225, "endSec": 1440.59433225, "text": "is G, this is the seven. This is how we pianists played on the piano.", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 1440.59433225, "endSec": 1441.14433225, "text": "Yeah, cool.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1441.14433225, "endSec": 1467.99033225, "text": "So we don't just do one, two, one, three, five, seven, nine. we don't just play this way we play the one here and seven here now the three of the chord the three is the one that tells us if it's major or minor right this is so we need it this is one of the notes we", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 1467.99033225, "endSec": 1468.74033225, "text": "usually powerful", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1468.74033225, "endSec": 1469.39033225, "text": "powerful", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 1469.39033225, "endSec": 1470.89033225, "text": "notes you have to keep the three", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1470.89033225, "endSec": 1474.89033225, "text": "note exactly but the end and here's a 13 on top", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 1476.1663322499999, "endSec": 1476.46633225, "text": "Hmm.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1476.46633225, "endSec": 1487.3663322500001, "text": "And it tends to move. No. And so when it moves here, this is a simple G7 chord.", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 1487.3663322500001, "endSec": 1489.1663322499999, "text": "Yeah, exactly. Exactly.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1492.4163322499999, "endSec": 1496.3663322500001, "text": "That's the way someone like in classical music,", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 1496.3663322500001, "endSec": 1496.46633225, "text": "Yes.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1496.46633225, "endSec": 1524.79633225, "text": "they used to use. Classical music, they used 13 chords, but it was more melodic. Now, in jazz, what we do sometimes, it's we skip the da-da-da, this, and like maybe with this C6. But here's another beautiful thing we", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 1524.79633225, "endSec": 1524.8463322500002, "text": "Uh", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1524.8463322500002, "endSec": 1525.14633225, "text": "do with", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 1525.14633225, "endSec": 1525.29633225, "text": "-huh.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1525.29633225, "endSec": 1535.99633225, "text": "jazz. Remember we talked about stable notes and more active. What about if I could end the progression. Here, like that.", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 1535.99633225, "endSec": 1536.19633225, "text": "Yeah,", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1536.19633225, "endSec": 1539.09633225, "text": "That ain't classical music that, oh now that's a dissonant.", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 1539.09633225, "endSec": 1539.19633225, "text": "yeah", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1539.19633225, "endSec": 1550.49633225, "text": "But how would if I... So I'm playing, I went from G7 to C basically, but I played the C with...", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 1550.49633225, "endSec": 1571.90233225, "text": "the six which is an active note and the two on top which is another active note so that's you know that's the essence of jazz it's for me now it's easier to to explain the difference between between classical music and jazz we said in jazz we we like to keep things more open sometimes you", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 1571.90233225, "endSec": 1572.35233225, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1572.35233225, "endSec": 1576.87633225, "text": "don't have that that they need to to end it like like", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 1576.87633225, "endSec": 1577.22633225, "text": "Yeah,", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1577.22633225, "endSec": 1577.37633225, "text": "that", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 1577.37633225, "endSec": 1577.52633225, "text": "exactly.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1577.52633225, "endSec": 1577.87633225, "text": "you", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 1577.87633225, "endSec": 1578.07633225, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1578.07633225, "endSec": 1578.57633225, "text": "know and", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 1578.57633225, "endSec": 1579.17633225, "text": "You have", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1579.17633225, "endSec": 1579.52633225, "text": "and then", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 1579.52633225, "endSec": 1582.77633225, "text": "the 6-9 chord. It's already loose. It's funny.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1582.77633225, "endSec": 1582.92633225, "text": "exactly", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 1582.92633225, "endSec": 1583.72633225, "text": "It's a 6-9 chord.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1583.72633225, "endSec": 1603.4243322500001, "text": "exactly and now also i'm able to explain myself why does it sound why do what what is it about it so i can i can say okay this is a c c69 chord just learn it try to enjoy it you know feel it you've heard it before but also understand that we have two active notes notes and", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 1603.4243322500001, "endSec": 1603.82433225, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1603.82433225, "endSec": 1623.07433225, "text": "i'm not this is not fancy theory this is something that i can actually teach in lesson one or two when i just start with music series say okay see this is the c major these are the these are the stable notes and these are the active notes and i usually like to give active stable", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 1624.29433225, "endSec": 1624.29433225, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1624.29433225, "endSec": 1630.1943322500001, "text": "and then i just say you see and then i could go take it to the c major chord you know you know you're not scared by right c", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 1630.1943322500001, "endSec": 1630.74433225, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1630.74433225, "endSec": 1643.28633225, "text": "major but how about adding two of these these active also and then you go oh yeah i think i've heard that chord before because that's the thing we've heard it before and", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 1643.28633225, "endSec": 1643.73633225, "text": "Yeah,", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1643.73633225, "endSec": 1648.1863322499999, "text": "listen we're surrounded by so much music we play games you", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 1648.1863322499999, "endSec": 1648.23633225, "text": "totally.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1648.23633225, "endSec": 1649.08633225, "text": "know there's music there", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 1649.08633225, "endSec": 1649.1863322499999, "text": "Oh,", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1649.1863322499999, "endSec": 1649.48633225, "text": "you", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 1649.48633225, "endSec": 1649.63633225, "text": "yeah.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1649.63633225, "endSec": 1650.08633225, "text": "know you", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 1650.08633225, "endSec": 1667.13633225, "text": "You did a great video on the score for Severance, an incredible show. And I think you shared how much the theme captures the whole feeling of, you know, being locked in this office forever. And it's so good. It's so beautiful.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1667.84633225, "endSec": 1679.34633225, "text": "Exactly. I heard the, I heard this as the company, as", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 1679.34633225, "endSec": 1679.4963322499998, "text": "Yeah,", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1679.4963322499998, "endSec": 1679.94633225, "text": "the corporate.", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 1679.94633225, "endSec": 1680.44633225, "text": "yeah, yeah", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1680.44633225, "endSec": 1698.23633225, "text": "And then, and this, I said, this sounds blues like the blues. And I said, yeah, blues is more emotional and these are These are chords,", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 1698.33633225, "endSec": 1711.1363322500001, "text": "many of them, and here this is the, you know, the lonely voice on top. Then I started saying, yeah, maybe this is this and this is, you know, Mark and the chord. Yeah.", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 1711.1363322500001, "endSec": 1712.20233225, "text": "Yeah. And", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1712.20233225, "endSec": 1712.45233225, "text": "Then", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 1712.45233225, "endSec": 1716.15233225, "text": "that pedal tone again, you had that low pedal tone, just the bass steady,", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1716.15233225, "endSec": 1717.05233225, "text": "Exactly, exactly,", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 1717.05233225, "endSec": 1718.05233225, "text": "you're not going anywhere.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1719.30233225, "endSec": 1757.08233225, "text": "exactly and then I started you know I started applying my my my my music my my music analysis stuff and say what do I know this from oh isn't it just So I play the iPhone ringtone and I started seeing that and say so instead of this he's going so he's making just more chromatic so", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 1757.08233225, "endSec": 1757.5323322499999, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1757.5323322499999, "endSec": 1770.8423322499998, "text": "then at the end I said oh so that's why it's so haunting Because we do recognize it. We do recognize it. We've heard it before. He didn't just come up with this is like straight from what I'm saying in the video.", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 1770.89233225, "endSec": 1770.94233225, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1770.94233225, "endSec": 1785.99233225, "text": "He didn't just come up with a new strange progression that we haven't heard before. He came with something that we recognize. Just like before when we said you've heard that 6-9 chord before.", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 1785.99233225, "endSec": 1786.3423322499998, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1786.3423322499998, "endSec": 1808.00633225, "text": "So you've heard it before. And we definitely heard this, you know, with this piano jazz, we've heard that, so this is the right mix of, or the beautiful mix of new, weird and familiar at the same time.", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 1808.05633225, "endSec": 1825.4024655833332, "text": "Sorry to interrupt this very important broadcast. What I'm asking for is for you to rate it five stars, share it with your friends. This is like the most important thing for this podcast to grow. So if you want to do this, you go into the podcast. screen, right? You click on the dot, dot, dot on Spotify. Under there, it says rate show and you go and you click it five stars.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1825.4024655833332, "endSec": 1840.2688737465985, "text": "If you could do that for me, that's the best way for the algorithms, all that stuff to share it out with the world. I know that it's a lot to ask, but if you could please, please, please, just please just hit those three dots and a five star would really help us out and helps us, you know, get the, get the word out and spread the love of music. So thank you.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1840.2688737465985, "endSec": 1847.1083322499999, "text": "If you're listening on YouTube, you know what to do. Like, subscribe, all that good stuff. thank you so much and uh here's the rest of the episode me", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1847.1083322499999, "endSec": 1849.20833225, "text": "And I'm fascinated by that", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 1849.2126644999998, "endSec": 1866.9826644999998, "text": "too me too that's that's mastery and it it puts you right in the place you don't even that's what that's the other thing i love about music theory is that you you experience all of it and then you go okay like why do i feel this way they work in tandem where it's it gives you the emotion and then you can take a step back as the composer and be like you Be like,", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1867.0326645, "endSec": 1870.7326644999998, "text": "okay, let me unpack that. How did that emotion come out of that core progression?", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1871.4086645, "endSec": 1897.4255172918781, "text": "Absolutely. And you're so right to, you know, you started with a question. Let's say if you have someone who loves music, who's excited, who wants to explore the beauty of it, and he's presented with a set of rules, you know, the first 10 lessons are not interesting. Interesting. They're just teaching the alphabet. So these are words and these are, you know.", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 1897.4255172918781, "endSec": 1905.0326645, "text": "And he's starting to question it, when is it ever going to make a musical sense? When is", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 1905.0326645, "endSec": 1905.3326645, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1905.3326645, "endSec": 1920.2498686884817, "text": "it going to help me understand something that I cannot understand by intuition right now? And oftentimes that's the case. No, you're studying theory now. You need to learn your skills, but then you go, why?", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 1920.2498686884817, "endSec": 1938.2446645, "text": "Why do I need, and when I teach, I don't even like to call it theory, I like to call it music, you know, the mechanics of music, what is it made of, why does it move this way, and also why we may choose not to go by the rules.", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 1938.3446645, "endSec": 1938.5946645, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1938.5946645, "endSec": 1943.5946645, "text": "So I think the environment is much more now inviting.", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 1944.3686645, "endSec": 1944.8186644999998, "text": "Mm-hmm.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1945.0186644999999, "endSec": 1959.0186644999999, "text": "musicians i you know i i i like to experiment with music myself to to make my own music so i know how it feels i hate to tell people no you know you should do this you should no i i", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 1959.0186644999999, "endSec": 1959.1186645, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1959.1186645, "endSec": 1968.2686644999999, "text": "mean i hope nobody no one's listening but i tell you something the people who teach music theory a lot of them are not involved in creating music so", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 1968.2686644999999, "endSec": 1968.5686644999998, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1968.5686644999998, "endSec": 1969.7186645, "text": "I understand what you're saying.", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 1969.8186645, "endSec": 1970.1186645, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1970.1186645, "endSec": 1985.6226645, "text": "you know so so in in many cases they they don't Maybe they don't fully understand the struggle of us trying to create something new or emotional with what we got.", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 1985.9726645, "endSec": 1997.7913151849314, "text": "Yeah, that's good. So speaking of Bach and also music theory, there's a thing that people love to hate, but there's also something beautiful out of it. SATB, four-part voice leading, voice writing.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 1997.7913151849314, "endSec": 2019.0906645, "text": "So the thing that I find really neat about it, I hated it at first, but I've come back around, is that polyphony and thinking like for interconnected melodies is really fun thing to apply to synthesizers, to guitarists, like horn parts. When I was doing it on voices, I was like, what am I doing? I'm just doing math. I'm doing music theory exercises.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 2019.0906645, "endSec": 2023.7906644999998, "text": "Can you talk about that? Especially somebody that has a PhD in all things Bach.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 2023.9406645, "endSec": 2031.1446644999999, "text": "you know for Bach like it's really interesting we love We love Bach, but we don't fully understand what he did.", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 2031.1446644999999, "endSec": 2032.3446645, "text": "Hmm. Okay.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 2032.4946645, "endSec": 2098.6506645, "text": "He was thinking chords much more than we think. He was thinking... He was thinking in terms of chord progressions. And for him... That motion of the voices of the independent, like let me give you an example, like we have, this is the fame. So we have two independent voices, right? What gives them direction, they're not just randomly moving, there is a corporate Like the Billy Joel that we sing", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 2098.6506645, "endSec": 2099.2006645, "text": "Mmm.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 2099.2006645, "endSec": 2099.5006645, "text": "for.", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 2099.5006645, "endSec": 2099.6006644999998, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 2099.6006644999998, "endSec": 2111.6506645, "text": "But he knew how to project or how to express that progression, that harmonic progression, with just two voices moving.", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 2111.6506645, "endSec": 2111.9006645, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 2111.9006645, "endSec": 2123.0946645, "text": "So I heard... I could, you", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 2123.0946645, "endSec": 2123.5446645, "text": "Yeah,", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 2123.5446645, "endSec": 2123.6946645, "text": "know,", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 2123.6946645, "endSec": 2123.7446645, "text": "yeah.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 2123.7446645, "endSec": 2144.4406645, "text": "I could translate that into chords. Now, and what he did is just go with it. two voices Yes. but we still hear and enjoy the harmony", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 2144.4406645, "endSec": 2144.4906645, "text": "Yeah,", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 2144.4906645, "endSec": 2144.9406645, "text": "where it exactly", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 2144.9406645, "endSec": 2147.0906645, "text": "you're filling it out with your own just, yeah.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 2147.8906644999997, "endSec": 2173.7906645, "text": "and and what I know that because he sometimes used to you know when he wrote his chorales then he used like chords he used it These are chords,", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 2173.8406645, "endSec": 2173.9406645, "text": "One", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 2173.9406645, "endSec": 2174.1906645, "text": "you know.", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 2174.1906645, "endSec": 2188.9906645, "text": "thing that I love about that type of progression is it really shows the gravity of harmony. It feels like you're rotating around like the sun or something like that. You're always going to come back around, but you don't quite know when you're going to turn back around the sun.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 2189.7446645, "endSec": 2190.5446645, "text": "Oh, yeah, beautiful,", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 2190.5946645, "endSec": 2190.6446645, "text": "thank", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 2190.6446645, "endSec": 2190.9446645, "text": "beautiful.", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 2190.9446645, "endSec": 2191.1446645, "text": "you", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 2191.1446645, "endSec": 2192.3446645, "text": "Yeah, keep going.", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 2192.3446645, "endSec": 2215.6946645, "text": "sure yeah but and and there's there's some harmony that you you feel like you're lost out in orbit but then that beautiful moment you're like in pluto or something instead of the earth you're like far far from the sun but then you you finally wrap like giant steps i think giant steps is a really good example of like you you're almost like you're getting thrown between different gravitational centers because it's kind of harmonizing these different homes", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 2215.9846645, "endSec": 2216.1846645, "text": "but you're", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 2216.1846645, "endSec": 2216.5346645, "text": "Yes,", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 2216.5346645, "endSec": 2216.9346645, "text": "never quite home", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 2216.9346645, "endSec": 2217.2846645, "text": "exactly.", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 2217.2846645, "endSec": 2221.9846645, "text": "until you hit the beginning of the progression it's fun that stuff's fun", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 2223.8886645, "endSec": 2245.7386645, "text": "So, yeah, absolutely. And you're right, it's like it's drama. It's Yes. when he eventually he will get back to home, but the question is when and the question is what's the journey going to be like. But what I'm saying about you asked about the independent voices.", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 2245.7386645, "endSec": 2275.2986645, "text": "Yes. The first thing I said, like, hey, he was. was well based in core progressions more than we think. But he used independent movement as more of a texture. What I'm trying to say, he could play the same progression with moving voices or with chords. So in classical music we call these different textures, different textures of the same thing.", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 2275.2986645, "endSec": 2275.4486644999997, "text": "Cool.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 2275.4486644999997, "endSec": 2285.8826645, "text": "And he could move. You know, in a beautiful way, from chords to more like moving parts, moving voices.", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 2285.8826645, "endSec": 2304.8826645, "text": "What I'm trying to say, when you're making your arrangements like, you know, like for horns or for the synths, usually you have that gravitational forces somewhere in the background that shows you. And when you learn classical voice leading.", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 2304.8826645, "endSec": 2333.2086645, "text": "you know at its best they just show you better ways of maybe more elegant ways of doing that one of the rules in harmony is is about avoiding parallel octaves like they're saying when you're moving from C major to D minor don't just move this way because what happens you have like you know four you know", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 2333.3286645, "endSec": 2365.9006645, "text": "a choir of four members and what happens now these two guys are they start moving in parallel motion so they start sounding like one person and since all you have to begin with you just four four of them why are you going to lose at one of the voices by one of them started you know behaving like you know so you're losing So what they're saying is that when you're moving from C major to D minor,", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 2366.0506645, "endSec": 2379.9506645, "text": "just go in the opposite. So the bass is moving to D and try to move the upper three voice down to the maybe to the nearest possible position of D minor. So", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 2379.9506645, "endSec": 2380.3006645, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 2380.3006645, "endSec": 2382.4506645, "text": "instead of just.", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 2383.5506645, "endSec": 2383.6506645, "text": "Mm", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 2383.6506645, "endSec": 2384.0006645, "text": "But", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 2384.0006645, "endSec": 2384.1506645, "text": "-hmm.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 2384.1506645, "endSec": 2389.7066645, "text": "that's D sound terrible when we're doing it the wrong way. No. And", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 2389.7066645, "endSec": 2389.9066645, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 2389.9066645, "endSec": 2394.4066645, "text": "why do we know that? Because, you know, on the guitar, we're using barre,", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 2394.4066645, "endSec": 2394.6566645, "text": "Mm", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 2394.6566645, "endSec": 2394.8066645, "text": "you", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 2394.8066645, "endSec": 2395.3566645, "text": "-hmm. Mm-hmm.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 2395.3566645, "endSec": 2395.6066645, "text": "know, like this", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 2395.6066645, "endSec": 2396.1066645, "text": "Yes.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 2396.1066645, "endSec": 2399.9566645, "text": "is a parallel motion.", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 2399.9566645, "endSec": 2400.7066645, "text": "It is.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 2401.4886644999997, "endSec": 2427.5686645, "text": "And it sounds great. So then Yeah. you said, okay, so what they really teach me in classical music that in Vienna 18th century, they love this elegance of avoiding it, not because it sounds terrible, but that's something they love doing. And then you say, oh, so we're talking aesthetics now. Oh,", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 2427.5686645, "endSec": 2459.9866645, "text": "Yeah, all right. yeah, I actually liked what they did and I'm going to learn it. But at the same time, when I'm playing a Beatles song, I want to hold your hand. So I am going to do exactly that parallel motion that so-called So we end up sometimes with, you know, you go to theory class and they say you shouldn't do. parallel motion parallel", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 2459.9866645, "endSec": 2460.4366645, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 2460.4366645, "endSec": 2461.2366645, "text": "octaves", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 2461.2366645, "endSec": 2461.3366645, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 2461.3366645, "endSec": 2465.0866645, "text": "but if you know enough you say hey the Beatles did it", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 2465.0866645, "endSec": 2465.1866645, "text": "Yes.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 2465.1866645, "endSec": 2469.2366645, "text": "and it's good and at the same time I love what the European did and", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 2469.2366645, "endSec": 2469.5866645, "text": "Right.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 2469.5866645, "endSec": 2473.6866645, "text": "then everything is like it's easier to digest", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 2474.2366645, "endSec": 2485.4686645, "text": "Yes. But also by learning both, now you have both. And like a little thing that opened my eyes on guitar is when you're writing guitar parts that are up high. i thinking", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 2485.4686645, "endSec": 2485.9686645, "text": "Hmm?", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 2485.9686645, "endSec": 2509.7186645, "text": "in voice leading is really cool instead of just shapes because like early guitarist you're all about shapes you only know like here's my d chord i'm gonna move it up here um but if you start to think about like okay this voice is doing this this voice is doing that you can do more interesting things on the guitar up top and it's just this beautiful texture especially with some delay and some reverb and all these things and you you draw from the palestinian like", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 2510.5446645, "endSec": 2512.5946645, "text": "that Austrian vibe and", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 2512.5946645, "endSec": 2512.6946645, "text": "Mm", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 2512.6946645, "endSec": 2513.0946645, "text": "throw", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 2513.0946645, "endSec": 2513.2446645, "text": "-hmm.", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 2513.2446645, "endSec": 2516.4446645, "text": "that into some rock music? I think that sounds really, really cool.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 2518.3206645, "endSec": 2535.4206645, "text": "yeah and uh yeah it opened my eyes And also melodic, and melodic it's another hook it's another texture you add that little dash of elegance and then you go right back to some power chords like that's a cool cool way to differentiate yourself by dipping into the past and borrowing a little bit of that elegance", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 2535.4206645, "endSec": 2547.4366645, "text": "exactly. Exactly. And what happens, we said it before, when you're exposed to that, all of a sudden it reminds you of something you knew. Oh, I've heard that before.", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 2547.4366645, "endSec": 2548.3866645, "text": "Yeah, yeah,", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 2548.3866645, "endSec": 2561.5866644999996, "text": "Now, so not what that, you know, what that exposure did to you, it connected you to something you knew and the fact that you remember that is because maybe you liked it.", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 2561.5866644999996, "endSec": 2562.0866644999996, "text": "yeah", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 2562.8646645, "endSec": 2579.0646644999997, "text": "But now you know what it is. Now you're going to use it, you know, I Yeah, think at best that's what that's a music studies do to you. They don't just teach you new things, but they help you understand stuff that you like.", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 2579.1146645, "endSec": 2602.3526645, "text": "totally. Let's get a little weirder, though. I want to ask you about symmetry and like non just major minor scales, but things like negative. of harmony or whole tone scales or octotonic double diminished kind of scales. Could you tell the listener about, I don't know, we've been talking this whole time about that Western rooted, what else is out there?", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 2602.3526645, "endSec": 2619.7686645, "text": "With negative harmony, I think people started talking about it again because of a video Jacob Collier did about it. And what he did is... Before we talk about the techniques, he", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 2619.7686645, "endSec": 2643.4619786210374, "text": "Sure. ended up just saying, just taking like a few nice idea, you know, from that technique and using it in his music. Say, oh, that's nice. I wouldn't have, you know, thought about it hadn't I played with negative harmony. So that's cool. You know, I got some new musical ideas that I can use in my own music. The idea behind.", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 2643.4619786210374, "endSec": 2652.7246645, "text": "negative harmony was that you could move a i like to think about it as a mirror harmony that's another way of of saying", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 2652.7246645, "endSec": 2654.4746645, "text": "I like that better. I like that better.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 2654.4746645, "endSec": 2660.6246645, "text": "yeah because it's it's more visual you know you can uh you can see and i made a video did you see i the video", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 2660.6246645, "endSec": 2663.0246644999997, "text": "saw what you put a playing card or something like that.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 2663.7246645, "endSec": 2665.4746645, "text": "yeah foil paper yeah", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 2665.4746645, "endSec": 2665.8746645, "text": "Foil paper.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 2665.8746645, "endSec": 2673.8746645, "text": "yeah and and and i and because i had to explain it to my to my to myself say what is it what are people talking about", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 2674.1286645, "endSec": 2704.1366645, "text": "Axis I don't understand that the axis they were showing you basically that that so if you started from so this is this is you have C here and G here now if I move one note to the to the right I could go I mean a whole tone I could go whole tone to the to the left or right and then another one that's a whole tone and", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 2704.1366645, "endSec": 2704.6366645, "text": "Yeah,", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 2704.6366645, "endSec": 2704.8366644999996, "text": "and", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 2704.8366644999996, "endSec": 2705.6366645, "text": "it's very interesting", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 2705.6366645, "endSec": 2705.9366645, "text": "then", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 2705.9366645, "endSec": 2706.0866644999996, "text": "the difference.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 2706.0866644999996, "endSec": 2728.3366644999996, "text": "another semitone all right semitone here whole tone whole tone all right so I end up with the mirror of C major is Oh C minor all right so let's go another one up", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 2731.1846645, "endSec": 2748.3846645, "text": "the other side we need to move down okay so the mirror of D minor is B flat and what's the mirror of E minor that would be oh so a flat", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 2749.2326645, "endSec": 2755.1326645, "text": "And then as a musician, I started to say, okay, what can I do with it? I mean, it's nice, but it's nice.", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 2755.1326645, "endSec": 2772.0326645, "text": "Yeah, it's interesting, But what yeah. can I do with it? And I said, okay, how about I try, I'll try a progression. I'll go the Jacob Collier way. I see if I can get something that I like out of this because otherwise it's meaningless.", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 2773.4566645, "endSec": 2783.1566645000003, "text": "So and then I came up with this progression. How about if I start from the mirror side? I try to make it in the same progression.", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 2794.5229967499995, "endSec": 2798.37299675, "text": "this way but I could also make the meat in the middle so", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 2798.37299675, "endSec": 2798.7729967499995, "text": "Oh,", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 2798.7729967499995, "endSec": 2800.7729967499995, "text": "I said okay let's move a semitone here let's", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 2800.7729967499995, "endSec": 2802.0229967499995, "text": "Yeah. Okay.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 2802.0229967499995, "endSec": 2814.37299675, "text": "move another one here oh so and then and then I put the the foil paper here between B flat I say it's much easier for me to to speak as a mirror now instead of", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 2817.4989967499996, "endSec": 2851.5989967499995, "text": "seeing it there and then and then the point was a lot of people say yeah but why why seeing C and G why not see and I don't know F sharp and I said you know because then when I put the mirror when I place it here then the mirror of C major is C minor And this is something I can still deal with because I say, oh, so I'm moving the mirror side is C minor, but it's still C, but it's still C.", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 2851.5989967499995, "endSec": 2868.7573585247437, "text": "So maybe I can create a progression with the mirror, like for both sides of the mirror, and it's going to move from C minor to C major. It's something that I know. It's not like, so I went with...", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 2868.7573585247437, "endSec": 2887.44899675, "text": "So these these are from the mural side And this is a minor from the from the regular side g7 and then I said to say wow that's nice I never thought of moving from a flat to e minor and", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 2887.44899675, "endSec": 2888.69899675, "text": "Yeah, yeah,", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 2888.69899675, "endSec": 2894.7489967499996, "text": "I said okay it worth it for me because maybe I'm gonna use it in in in a song one day because", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 2894.7489967499996, "endSec": 2894.79899675, "text": "yeah.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 2895.73899675, "endSec": 2918.0389967499996, "text": "And that's the point. That's the point of the whole point of, I think for me, of learning these new techniques I have. I have a book called Harmony of the 20th Century. Tons of these all kinds of artificial devices. You start here, you end up here. But a lot of the music doesn't sound very musical.", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 2918.3889967499995, "endSec": 2919.1389967499995, "text": "Yeah, yeah.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 2919.1389967499995, "endSec": 2948.9629967499995, "text": "So actually the guy who wrote the book. did create very musical stuff with that but potentially it can be just theory so all we're trying to do sometimes is look for new ideas and you know just like David Bowie used to you know write lyrics so he could you know go the traditional way of telling a story but sometimes he you know just chop the you know the the word have like you know just words and and John Lennon did the same I believe just take", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 2948.9229967499996, "endSec": 2955.87299675, "text": "take okay let's take what do I have in a morning sunshine or night and you know just play with", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 2956.7629967499997, "endSec": 2966.6129967499996, "text": "with with the words and and create something random of it you know out of it and um give it new meaning do you know does this make sense what", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 2966.6129967499996, "endSec": 2966.7629967499997, "text": "It", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 2966.7629967499997, "endSec": 2966.9629967499995, "text": "it what", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 2966.9629967499995, "endSec": 2983.81299675, "text": "does. It does make sense. It's part of the reason why I like learning exotic scales, different scales on the guitar, less so that I can be like, now I'm playing in this mode, now I'm playing in this scale. It's not really about that. It's more just like now I know I could deploy this weird note.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 2983.81299675, "endSec": 3009.1709967499996, "text": "note that doesn't normally work but i'm listening to the band and they're playing this chord i was practicing this weird scale and i know i'm allowed to play a flat two here i know that's that's going to sound different and cool and spicy but it's not because i'm locking myself into like i play this now i play egyptian sounding stuff now it's just like i know the notes that are dancing around at my fingertips i'm not just playing pentatonic scale not that there's anything wrong with that i do that all the time too", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3010.5549967499996, "endSec": 3015.1549967499996, "text": "Yes, yes. And for example, with the octatonic scale,", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 3015.1549967499996, "endSec": 3015.6549967499996, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3015.6549967499996, "endSec": 3025.8049967499996, "text": "let me see. One way I like to look at it is we have, let's, if we start from C, we can play, this is the octatonic sound.", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 3030.4549967499997, "endSec": 3049.6909967499996, "text": "You say octatonic because it means eight notes because the regular scales are seven. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven. And back to one. Also the minor ones. They're all seven. They're the Lydian. And here we have one that has eight, so it's octatonic.", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 3049.74099675, "endSec": 3049.89099675, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3049.89099675, "endSec": 3072.8489967499995, "text": "Now, the way I like to look at it is as usual to simplify stuff. And I said, oh, so what do I really have here? I have here a diminished chord. Cool, I know the diminished. Now all I'm doing is just adding a semitone below each one of these chord", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 3072.8489967499995, "endSec": 3073.3989967499997, "text": "Yep.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3073.3989967499997, "endSec": 3095.2269967499997, "text": "tones. So I got here it is. So here's the semitone. All right. That's another one. So I'm getting... the the octatonics", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 3095.2269967499997, "endSec": 3095.4269967499995, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3095.4269967499995, "endSec": 3097.6769967499995, "text": "and but why is it useful okay", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 3097.6769967499995, "endSec": 3098.8769967499998, "text": "Try Tone Subs.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3099.5769967499996, "endSec": 3123.0729967499997, "text": "what useful to me because I'm starting to think hey how about if I play it if I played it by I just add these semitones not to all the notes I will add them to some I will start by adding I'll add it here here but here but", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 3125.52299675, "endSec": 3129.02299675, "text": "here I'll go with just with the with the diminished chord without the the approach tone", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 3129.02299675, "endSec": 3129.2229967499998, "text": "Right.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3129.2229967499998, "endSec": 3135.62299675, "text": "so all of a sudden it sounds more organic it's something that I did with it I like I like approach", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 3135.62299675, "endSec": 3136.12299675, "text": "Totally.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3139.62299675, "endSec": 3143.8149967499994, "text": "tone approach I like to go in and change stuff,", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 3143.8649967499996, "endSec": 3143.91499675, "text": "Yeah,", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3143.91499675, "endSec": 3144.41499675, "text": "you know?", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 3144.41499675, "endSec": 3162.4649967499995, "text": "absolutely. It's a great skill to dip in and out of. You know, like it's really hard to compose an entire song just in octatonic, you sound like Scriabin or something. But the one of the other things I like about it, though, is it's very associated with like the blues scale, because it's very like five chord, like just like every diminished chord is also a five chord.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3162.4649967499995, "endSec": 3182.1869967499997, "text": "And then the tritone sub idea where you're just stacking these diminished chords on top of each other, so you can move now your five chord up a minor third. heard and do really cool stuff when you're soloing and you're just doing all the octotonic things but people are like wow so out so jazzy so different and it's like you know this is you can have an entire bag just from this one scale yes", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3182.1869967499997, "endSec": 3212.2269967499997, "text": "exactly and but now you also see okay so i i can personalize it by adding those by adding those semitones to only some of the keys so instead of something sounding like It's a scale that I have to play. Oh, the semitones. I can add them", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 3212.2269967499997, "endSec": 3212.4269967499995, "text": "So", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3212.4269967499995, "endSec": 3212.6269967499998, "text": "to only", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 3212.6269967499998, "endSec": 3212.8769967499998, "text": "cool.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3212.8769967499998, "endSec": 3220.7269967499997, "text": "some, yeah, I mean, but it takes, for me to do that, it takes time. I have to spend some time with a,", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 3220.7269967499997, "endSec": 3220.8269967499996, "text": "Yeah.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3220.8269967499996, "endSec": 3226.9269967499995, "text": "you know, a few minutes, maybe a day to learn the sound because", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 3226.9269967499995, "endSec": 3227.4269967499995, "text": "Yeah,", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3227.4269967499995, "endSec": 3227.6269967499998, "text": "I", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 3227.6269967499998, "endSec": 3227.77699675, "text": "definitely.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3227.77699675, "endSec": 3242.75499675, "text": "want to know. But by ear, yeah, that was what one of my ear training classes that I did when I taught ear training in college, it was college ear training, I let them sing octatonic scales.", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 3242.75499675, "endSec": 3245.00499675, "text": "yeah cool nice that's brutal", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3245.60499675, "endSec": 3251.0549967499996, "text": "It is. I complain, why is it so hard to sing it?", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 3251.0549967499996, "endSec": 3257.50499675, "text": "it's so hard to sing tritones are so hard to sing um the thing that i love on the octatonic too is you have uh", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3257.6589967499995, "endSec": 3276.7089967499996, "text": "uh just the minor and the major so like if you're thinking of it from the first note like the first of the root of the octatonic whatever that means but like so say it's c you have c then you have e flat and e but then you also have b flat and you have a it's like right there those notes alone very pop very blues", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3285.0509967499997, "endSec": 3290.5509967499997, "text": "yeah we're it's like it's like yeah the the sound of the blues but with with some added yeah", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 3290.5509967499997, "endSec": 3311.45099675, "text": "otherworldly like Martian kind of thing going and then you like you throw in those other notes as splashes of color you're like what world am I I love it yeah it's fun but those that's what the tools are that like just full circle on these things it's not about rules obviously we're talking about like how do we borrow some ideas from this how do we change it up mix it up", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3311.2909967499995, "endSec": 3329.99099675, "text": "it up like it's just like how do you refocus the way you think about music how do you add more tools to your composition how do you experiment with things and be like how does this make me feel like why why do why do I feel like I'm on a different planet with this chord versus the C major scale I feel very rooted in you know Vienna or something", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3330.3409967499997, "endSec": 3356.89499675, "text": "exactly exactly you know that's when I teach I always remember that I'm talking to people who love music And I'm whatever I'm teaching them is to enhance that to serve that not to you know bombard them with information. That's that's the whole thing. I'm thinking about it from I'm you know, I'm a person who's writing music too.", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 3356.89499675, "endSec": 3371.0189967499996, "text": "And I want, you know, I'm helping my fellow musicians sharing with them stuff that I know about music. For example, when I created my music course, I asked myself, I need to use.", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 3371.0189967499996, "endSec": 3394.91099675, "text": "examples from familiar songs they could not play entire songs because you know of rights but I used some examples here and there and I even said okay so if I use this Beatles song I went on Spotify to just look for the what are the the top five Beatles songs that people listen to today", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 3394.91099675, "endSec": 3395.51099675, "text": "Uh-huh.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3395.51099675, "endSec": 3425.9809967499996, "text": "and and I discover okay here comes a son and my point is so I say okay I'm gonna use here comes the Sun in my in my course to show that whatever thing I want I wanted to show because I want people to connect with it because if I just play them a Brahms example or some kind of Schumann example you know it's it's gonna be they're gonna say okay that's nice but what does it get to do with you know with the fun I love to have when I'm making music", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 3426.0429967499995, "endSec": 3430.97099675, "text": "music so I say but if I'm using here comes the Sun okay that's more approachable So", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 3430.97099675, "endSec": 3431.3209967499997, "text": "Yes.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3431.3209967499997, "endSec": 3446.3209967499997, "text": "that's what I'm trying to do. I'm trying to communicate this thing to people, you know, it's about communication. I just love to see when they understand, you know, it's beautiful. It's a beautiful thing. Oh, I get it now. That's cool.", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 3446.47099675, "endSec": 3460.7389967499994, "text": "Those light bulb moments. So this brings me to a question pretty seamlessly. I ask all of my guests this and I want to do the same for you. It's a difficult question, but a very simple. Simple question, Guy, why do you love music?", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3461.2889967499996, "endSec": 3478.565679529456, "text": "I don't know. I don't know. I just do. I started reacting to music when I was like three. In kindergarten, even before, there was a woman who used to come with an accordion to play and I was just transfixed.", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 3478.565679529456, "endSec": 3504.4429967499996, "text": "And then I asked my parents to get me a toy accordion and I was already playing some melodies using melodies and that's it, that's it for me. And my story, by the way, is that I left music studies at age five or six and I came back only when I was 15 because I had a bad experience with a music teacher. he", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 3504.4429967499996, "endSec": 3504.9429967499996, "text": "Hmm.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3504.9429967499996, "endSec": 3520.2929967499995, "text": "told my mom that because I played by ear and I you know I could you know pick up the tunes and I didn't learn to read music I didn't I wasn't depending on reading so he said he's probably not going to be a serious musician", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 3520.9549967499997, "endSec": 3521.1049967499994, "text": "Hmm.", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3521.1049967499994, "endSec": 3544.6549967499996, "text": "and and you know so you know I came back to music when I was 15 this time in my own terms I started as a self-taught then I found good teachers and and that so yeah I love music because it's it's just beautiful it's a gift that we got I've heard somewhere that it's not essential for us to to live", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 3545.4349967499998, "endSec": 3556.33499675, "text": "for our life it's not essential but it's kind of a gift that we got you know you know so i treat it as a gift music is a gift i", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 3556.5349967499997, "endSec": 3564.1849967499998, "text": "Couldn't agree more one last question. How many keys are there because there's been a controversy going on in the internet whether or not there's actually 12 keys. What do you think?", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3564.83499675, "endSec": 3573.6349967499996, "text": "don't know i i i don't know like uh c sharp okay so they're saying like i i could go you know the simple way to go on the piano", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 3574.68299675, "endSec": 3587.8329967499994, "text": "one two three four five six seven eight nine ten eleven twelve and back to one so 12 keys C major and this is C sharp but then people say yeah but it can be D flat D", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 3587.8329967499994, "endSec": 3597.7329967499995, "text": "Right. What's up? flat so you have C sharp so yeah I guess like like 12 I need to count I need to count", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 3599.35499675, "endSec": 3605.85499675, "text": "good answer i i think my answer is as many slices as you want to cut from you can have as many keys as you want", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 3605.85499675, "endSec": 3611.85499675, "text": "exactly exactly i mean i mean when i get to d flat major i'll deal with d flat yeah", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 3611.85499675, "endSec": 3618.85499675, "text": "yeah good answer well guy where can where can people get in touch where can they check out your course follow you on instagram youtube", "speaker": "Luke F. Walton" }, { "startSec": 3620.5549967499996, "endSec": 3633.6929967499996, "text": "so i'm on instagram and i'm on on youtube and on What I like about Instagram is the ability to create ear training quizzes in the stories.", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 3633.7429967499997, "endSec": 3664.50499675, "text": "Yes. It's something that YouTube has more, you know, the ability to have longer videos, but Instagram is more dynamic and the link to my course is in my bio. So, you can have a look. And yeah, and also those quizzes are great because people get to, you know, I always try to make them fun and musical, not just play this and ask what is a C major,", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 3664.50499675, "endSec": 3685.4429967499996, "text": "Mm C -hmm. minor, but just, you know, play music, real music that I improvise on the note. Did they go to E flat and did they go to E? E flat in this case. So I like to people say oh so yeah, so it's like ear training but made musical.", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 3685.5429967499995, "endSec": 3693.3429967499997, "text": "Hmm. That's what I try. Love it. Love In it. fight. Yes. In fight. Yes. It's really great. Well, thank you so much for joining the show. Really appreciated the conversation.", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" }, { "startSec": 3693.5929967499997, "endSec": 3699.2429967499997, "text": "Thank you very much for having me. It was great. Thank you. Thank you so much.", "speaker": "Dr. Guy Shkolnik" } ], "correctionsApplied": [] }