{ "schemaVersion": "v1", "slug": "5-lessons-from-igor-stravinsky", "title": "5 Lessons from Igor Stravinsky", "kind": "solo", "listenUrl": "https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/lovemusicmore/episodes/5-Lessons-from-Igor-Stravinsky-e1mhrse", "publishedAt": "2026-10-14", "source": { "provider": "whisper", "model": "faster-whisper:base", "normalizedSchema": "v1", "transcribedAt": "2026-06-09T08:02:46.036Z" }, "paragraphs": [ { "startSec": 0, "endSec": 28.61, "text": "Music Appreciation. What's up, it's Scoobert Doobert coming at ya.I want to talk about Igor Stravinsky.So what, what do, what does a composer, you know, from the turn of the 20th centuryhave to teach a pop musician? A ton, actually." }, { "startSec": 28.61, "endSec": 50.55087912087912, "text": "I mean, I focused just on his early life because I just randomly came across thisand I filled something and inspired me.So hopefully this inspires you too.I'm going to break it down into five lessons, five lessons that Igor Stravinsky hasto teach modern day pop writers.All right, so a little bit of background." }, { "startSec": 50.55087912087912, "endSec": 64.16996557659208, "text": "I'm taking an online course, Great Music of the 20th century taught by Dr. Robert Greenberg. It's pretty awesome. So a lot of what I'm going to besaying is coming from that course and I'm recommending it. It's really, really good if you'reinterested in this kind of stuff." }, { "startSec": 64.16996557659208, "endSec": 77.49, "text": "If not, here's a little taste and something that youcan actually apply to your own music, your own creativity and just kind of looking at this very interesting man's biography and what he turned into. So first of all," }, { "startSec": 79.81, "endSec": 87.33, "text": "Igor Stravinsky is a revolutionary. He was somebody that was incredibly divisive." }, { "startSec": 88.13, "endSec": 106.48521739130435, "text": "Somebody that you either loved or you hated, mostly hated. Most people hated it.So that's lesson one, being ahead of the curve hurts. But sometimes that's how you know that you'reahead of the curve. One of the things that I like about this course that Dr. Greenberg talks aboutis he actually uses contemporary music reviewers." }, { "startSec": 106.48521739130435, "endSec": 125.25, "text": "So critics and what they said at the time that they were exposed to this new music. He even goes back to Beethoven and has some critics thatare criticizing Beethoven who I would say, you know, a good chunk of the classical world considersthe goat the greatest of all time. So keep that in mind." }, { "startSec": 126.53, "endSec": 131.73, "text": "Igor Stravinsky. Stravinsky, his dad was an opera singer. So he was around music" }, { "startSec": 133.01, "endSec": 138.77, "text": "from the jump. That's an important thing right there, exposure to music, exposure to the stuff." }, { "startSec": 140.77, "endSec": 148.53, "text": "My parents were not musicians but I was exposed to a lot of music growing up and that was crucial." }, { "startSec": 149.49, "endSec": 170.7775590551181, "text": "You know, luckily we were listening to a lot of music and then my grandpa started to takeme to a lot of concerts. And by being in the musical community, you can draw a lot, especiallyfrom that young age. That's number one. Stravinsky studied some piano, but it wasn't really anythingout of the ordinary. So you knew how to play, but it wasn't like this is what I do." }, { "startSec": 170.7775590551181, "endSec": 194.44367421504072, "text": "He wasn't some impresario, so vaunt child prodigy. It was only when he ended up in law school that he's like,I want to be a musician, dad. I don't really want to do this law thing. And so he's a late bloomer.It takes him till he's 20 to like really start to learn music and composition. So he's at lawschool. He's teaching himself some of the stuff. He's reading books. He's doing his thing." }, { "startSec": 194.44367421504072, "endSec": 205.73, "text": "And he ends up meeting an important friend. That's lesson number two. It's always been about relationships,even back then. Obviously this is not that long ago. This is a little over 100 years ago. But" }, { "startSec": 206.53, "endSec": 211.01, "text": "the point still exists. Internet, pre-internet, even Beethoven's time, Mozart's time." }, { "startSec": 211.97, "endSec": 219.33, "text": "Who you know is very important because while he's at law school, he meets Rimsky-Korsakov's son." }, { "startSec": 220.21, "endSec": 225.65, "text": "Rimsky-Korsakov was like the leading Russian nationalist and like think like, I'm Russian" }, { "startSec": 226.45, "endSec": 245.71315789473684, "text": "like that super, super Russian sounding stuff. Rimsky-Korsakov was about it. That's what he made.And he was very famous and he was very accomplished. Students, he goes to him having, you know,booked a meeting through that buddy at law school and plays him as a stuff. And Korsakov is like,man, pretty bad." }, { "startSec": 245.71315789473684, "endSec": 261.73079092759525, "text": "Didn't even really say like, oh, you know, you're gonna, like, you'll have a future in this. He was like basically told him essentially give up. And if you're not gonna giveup, maybe, you know, pay my students a little bit and they can teach you some, but you're notgonna get my time." }, { "startSec": 261.73079092759525, "endSec": 279.7286123937127, "text": "But he did leave the door open just enough to say, you know, if you work with my students for a while, then maybe I can help you out in the future. But it was one of those kindof like tepid like, yeah, nice head pat. Do your best kind of thing." }, { "startSec": 279.7286123937127, "endSec": 305.06935147052525, "text": "But that's, that's lessonnumber three is like, if you get anywhere close to a yes from a mentor like that, you have to, you have to really go for it. So from his perspective, he hears, oh, you're pretty good. You're notquite there. Study with some of my students. And then eventually I'll teach you. So he goes, okay,bet he goes. And he starts studying with Rimsky-Korsakov's, you know, pupils." }, { "startSec": 305.06935147052525, "endSec": 319.86, "text": "And then eventually, he does work his way up. And he ends up working with Rimsky-Korsakov himself. It takes him a coupleyears or three years or something like that, but he's making incredible strides because he's committedto the craft. And he recognizes that some things require mentorship. That's another big lesson." }, { "startSec": 320.66, "endSec": 330.02288659793817, "text": "Things like orchestration sets within this world require some mentorship. In my world, I think mixingsomething that requires mentorship, I think it's really, really hard to just do it alone." }, { "startSec": 330.02288659793817, "endSec": 349.75381443298966, "text": "Even,you know, even if it is through the internet or through YouTube videos or whatever like that,you need some level of mentorship, but even better if you have somebody that's going back and forth with you. That's able to show you their process. That's able to say like, this is why this sounds bad.This is why this doesn't work." }, { "startSec": 349.75381443298966, "endSec": 369.86683070924295, "text": "There are some skills within music that are just too hard and too nuanced to just pick up in a vacuum. Like, yeah, sure, you can learn some stuff, but there is a,there are specific sets of skills that require somebody that's gone down the path before youto show you the way. And that's what Rimsky-Korsakov does for Stravinsky." }, { "startSec": 369.86683070924295, "endSec": 387.3, "text": "He teaches him how to orchestrate, how to say like, okay, this sounds good on the violins, this sounds good on thetimpani's, this sounds good over here. This is the general range you want to work in,giving them all of the tips and tricks and new wants that only, you know, an old school" }, { "startSec": 388.18, "endSec": 413.62, "text": "been there, done that composer, orchestrator or ranger could provide. But that doesn't getfar enough. He doesn't become this famous guy until something incredible happens.There is a riot at the Rite of Spring after the Rite of Spring because the music is so intenseand is so divisive that it actually causes a riot in the streets." }, { "startSec": 413.62, "endSec": 419.86, "text": "But the secret part of that, and that's part of the reason why Stravinsky is like," }, { "startSec": 420.74, "endSec": 438.87572559366754, "text": "so almost deified because he made such divisive music, such intense music. It's really good,by the way, it's also really good, that it caused a riot. It's like that already. You're like,oh, that's like a legend. He's legendary. But that's where lesson four comes in." }, { "startSec": 438.87572559366754, "endSec": 457.6199450974121, "text": "You need a team.You need somebody else that is going to let you focus on, you know, making intense compositional choices, intense musical choices that can put it in the right frame. And that's where Sergei Diaghilev comes in." }, { "startSec": 457.6199450974121, "endSec": 480.6821978061368, "text": "He commissioned some of the orchestral arrangements early in Stravinsky's career. They made a full-length ballet called the Firebird that was very successful and that wasone of the things that made Stravinsky kind of elevated. And that was like kind of the theturning point where Stravinsky really became himself." }, { "startSec": 480.6821978061368, "endSec": 500.6985551229451, "text": "But in order to become himself, he had to pull in a bunch of different modern influences and combine them with that Russiannationalist music. And in doing so, he ends up creating a good deal of like what modern musicends up sounding like because he goes back." }, { "startSec": 500.6985551229451, "endSec": 509.6, "text": "He takes different musical concepts that have been stodgy and kind of forced into this little box and he starts to destroy that box." }, { "startSec": 511.12, "endSec": 535.1055118110237, "text": "He looks to, you know, visual art like Cubism and trying to think of, you know, how are thereways that we can put different dimensions into music. He looks to W.C. who makes music that's veryfloaty, that isn't necessarily tonal, that isn't like it's in a major or a minor key, it isn'tthis familiar sense like think of like Mozart, very tonal. It's kind of the anti-Mozart." }, { "startSec": 535.1055118110237, "endSec": 549.2020762204725, "text": "And W.C. starts to make music that is more about the journey than the destination. It isn't like,we're building, we're building, we're building, and we arrive. It's more like we're in the process.We never quite arrive. We're always floating." }, { "startSec": 549.2020762204725, "endSec": 568.5413375328084, "text": "That's more like Debussy's music,like Clair de lune is his most famous thing, but if you listen to more Debussy, it's got this really nice, languid, floaty, dreamlike music. You combine that with Russian nationalism, which is like,boom, boom, boom." }, { "startSec": 568.5413375328084, "endSec": 579.3384749710883, "text": "And you get this insane, amazing thing that is simultaneously rooted, but lofty, that is dissonant, but paced." }, { "startSec": 579.3384749710883, "endSec": 596.472307872551, "text": "And one of the things that Rimsky-Korsakov did that Ithink is really interesting is instead of having a melody that you kind of return to and develop, he instead started to do a thing where you just add more stuff." }, { "startSec": 596.472307872551, "endSec": 618.56, "text": "So instead of likenecessarily taking this little nugget and you polish it and you turn it into a sculpture by the end, you instead take a nugget and then you add in another nugget and then you add in another nuggetand then another nugget that kind of contrasts and then you take and remove and you add. It's lessabout development and it's more about addition and subtraction, which is big in modern music too." }, { "startSec": 618.56, "endSec": 630.67, "text": "Like pop music. So combining all those different types of contemporary art into his work." }, { "startSec": 631.87, "endSec": 645.87, "text": "So that's like the, that's the last, no, second to last. I guess I got a bonus one. Lesson where it'slike, look at what's around you, take the things that are around you, put them into your art," }, { "startSec": 646.83, "endSec": 664.03, "text": "you know, and then combine them with the old. The old and the new at the same time is that it givessomebody something to root into. All right, last one. Let's talk about combining both the old andthe new and also having that team with Sergei Diaghilev. So they did something genius," }, { "startSec": 664.83, "endSec": 692.51, "text": "like straight up marketing genius in order to basically start that riot. That was intentional.They were trying to make a piece of ballet and music combined that was soanti-establishment that they needed to make the audience" }, { "startSec": 693.47, "endSec": 714.5629842931937, "text": "primed for what they were about to hear and see. So there would be a spectacle. So then it wouldhit the press and then everybody would have to come see this thing that created a riot. So what theydid is they gave away free and cheap tickets to young revolutionaries and sat them all next to thestodgy old people that, you know, book out the balconies and stuff." }, { "startSec": 714.5629842931937, "endSec": 731.7683994764398, "text": "So instantly you had new and old. You had people wearing berets and people wearing, you know, three piece suits andtop hats sitting right next to each other. And so they started to have this like audience war,where it kind of blurred the sense of who's audience and who's performer, who's listening to who,who's doing what?" }, { "startSec": 731.7683994764398, "endSec": 745.8747393122966, "text": "Where people are booing and then people are booing the booers and it's going back and forth and they're saying they basically couldn't even hear a lot of the music. And the musicis hitting this drum, you know, if you listen to some rite of spring, there's this boom." }, { "startSec": 745.8747393122966, "endSec": 769.6912902485035, "text": "Don't,don't like this like intense, almost, almost like movie score sense to it, but it's more tension, it's more, and it never quite releases. And all of that combined together, so the Sergei Diaghilev's genius of giving away some of the some of the nice seats to revolutionaries so that theyget big get up in arms with the people that are the establishment." }, { "startSec": 769.6912902485035, "endSec": 796.19, "text": "And then the genius of Stravinsky for pulling in, you know, new contemporary art that was not really seen in that wayand combining it with tension with never quite releasing, not quite developing.This different sense of what music can be and liberating senses of music, so it's not in thatlittle box that made it very satisfying to the revolutionaries and very dissatisfying to the" }, { "startSec": 796.19, "endSec": 802.19, "text": "non-revolutionaries. And that brings me to the last lesson, nothing like drama to get the word out." }, { "startSec": 803.15, "endSec": 825.7556569343067, "text": "He's literally a legend because of that destructive modernist work. And that's what brings usinto postmodernism. It's destruction. And then where are we now? I think we're post-postmodern.We're trying to build it back up, but in a new and interesting way." }, { "startSec": 825.7556569343067, "endSec": 853.44, "text": "Like both admiring the building of the box, and also admiring the liberation of music from the box,and then figuring out what do we do now? You built it up, you tore it down, now we're left kind ofsquare one, but it's square one after all of this history. Where do we head next? And that'swhere I think pop music actually fills the gap more than classical. And that's how we end up here." }, { "startSec": 853.44, "endSec": 871.7891489361701, "text": "So I think we keep those lessons in mind as we make music. So like for me, I want to make music,not all my music, you know, want to keep some music that's like very listenable and very chilland in the world, but I want to have some music that's ahead of the curve, so that makes somemusic that people don't like. Push them." }, { "startSec": 871.7891489361701, "endSec": 888.72, "text": "I want to build relationships and get to know people and look for mentors. Like specifically with mixing, I have a few mentors that I really lean onthat have really helped me. I need a team. I have a great team and we're building it. It's growing." }, { "startSec": 889.6, "endSec": 896.98, "text": "That's impactful. And I'm trying to pull in other contemporary art into my music," }, { "startSec": 897.94, "endSec": 917.7850000000001, "text": "doing my best. I'll get better at it. And then finally, I need drama to get the word out. I don'tknow what that's going to be. But that has to happen in order to turn all of this from potentialenergy into kinetic energy. That's the fuse that lights the whole thing. I don't know what that'llbe." }, { "startSec": 917.7850000000001, "endSec": 931.0639964788733, "text": "And I hope it's not like destructive weird drama, but I hope it's like cathartic artistic drama in the way that this riot. I don't think it'd hurt anybody. I don't know." }, { "startSec": 931.0639964788733, "endSec": 950.5336087255239, "text": "Check my sources.But I think it's interesting to be part of that cultural nexus where you have the new and the old clashing and you're providing a medium for the new and the old to clash, which I ultimately thinkis a very productive thing because in vacuums, it's just not that interesting." }, { "startSec": 950.5336087255239, "endSec": 963.95, "text": "So that's how I applysome of these lessons into what I'm trying to do with my career and it'd be interesting to see how that might affect yours, might affect the way that you conceptualize music and the arc of things," }, { "startSec": 964.83, "endSec": 972.59, "text": "everything from taking inspiration from paintings to having a hell of a marketer who is your patron" }, { "startSec": 973.55, "endSec": 996.43, "text": "and your team member. With that, that's enough 20th century classical music history for me.And that might be enough for you too, 15 minutes of it. If you have any questions or anything likethat, reach out to me, scoobertdoobert.pizza has got all the links. And I'm here to talk about stuff." } ], "correctionsApplied": [ { "id": "honest-stravinsky", "count": 1, "note": "Composer name ASR typo" }, { "id": "scoober-doober", "count": 1, "note": "Host intro name ASR typo" }, { "id": "scooberduber-url", "count": 1, "note": "Outro URL ASR typo" } ] }